Go Back  DVD Talk Forum > General Discussions > Other Talk
Reload this Page >

Contactless Bank/Credit cards

Other Talk "Otterville" plus Religion/Politics

Contactless Bank/Credit cards

Old 08-20-19, 01:26 PM
  #1  
DVD Talk Legend
Thread Starter
 
Sonic's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 1999
Posts: 18,319
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Contactless Bank/Credit cards

Just received notice from my bank I will be receiving a new card that is contactless. Because swiping is too difficult and such a long process. Inserting the chip is also a long wait. Welcome "contactless". Just smack the card on the device and I'm done.

But wait there's more! By 2025 we will have Penile/Vaginal implanted chips. One shake of the hip (for females "twerking") and transaction is completed.
Old 08-20-19, 01:30 PM
  #2  
DVD Talk Legend
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: MA
Posts: 12,648
Received 8 Likes on 6 Posts
Re: Contactless Bank/Credit cards

It's just NFC tech; same as what phones use for their Pay apps. Cheaper than chips for both the banks and businesses that accept cards and far more secure than a mag strip.
Old 08-20-19, 01:37 PM
  #3  
DVD Talk Hall of Fame
 
andicus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Canada
Posts: 8,064
Received 4 Likes on 4 Posts
Re: Contactless Bank/Credit cards

That's been out for years. I find it very convenient. I like to avoid touching things that other people touch. Tapping, as we call it, means I can avoid handling the keypad, as any swipe or chip insert requires you to enter your PIN.

There is a limitation, though, as we have a $100 maximum purchase for tapping.

Obviously it's riskier, as anyone could use your card without needing a PIN.
Old 08-20-19, 01:46 PM
  #4  
DVD Talk Ruler
 
General Zod's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Santa Clarita, CA
Posts: 21,509
Received 2 Likes on 2 Posts
Re: Contactless Bank/Credit cards

I was just overseas in Europe and never took my credit card out of my wallet. I just used my phone to pay for everything. After dining at a restaurant the waiter would bring over the portable reader and I would use my phone to NFC the payment. Same with the taxi. I prefer to use my phone since it requires my thumb print to turn on the NFC and my credit card is generated at that time and then it expires when the transaction is done. Couldn't be any easier and a whole lot more secure.
Old 08-20-19, 02:02 PM
  #5  
DVD Talk Legend
 
milo bloom's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Chicago suburbs
Posts: 13,229
Received 5 Likes on 4 Posts
Re: Contactless Bank/Credit cards

I've been hesitant to install ApplePay on my iPhone for the many years I've owned one. Is it worth the trouble?
Old 08-20-19, 02:03 PM
  #6  
DVD Talk Hall of Fame
 
andicus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Canada
Posts: 8,064
Received 4 Likes on 4 Posts
Re: Contactless Bank/Credit cards

Ooooh! I wasn't familiar with NFC. It looks like my card of choice supports it, so I think I'll be switching to that, as it's more secure.

Crap. There's one drawback... My wife has an iPhone 5s, so it won't be supported for her. I would imagine it also requires data to use, so she's doubly out of luck. It'll piss her off that I can do it and she can't.
Old 08-20-19, 02:07 PM
  #7  
DVD Talk Ruler
 
General Zod's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Santa Clarita, CA
Posts: 21,509
Received 2 Likes on 2 Posts
Re: Contactless Bank/Credit cards

Originally Posted by milo bloom View Post
I've been hesitant to install ApplePay on my iPhone for the many years I've owned one. Is it worth the trouble?
While I was on this trip I was traveling with my family and my best friend for years. He saw me use my phone to pay and said he was hesitant to use it but we got it set up for him in a few minutes, he tried it at the next place we went, and he said he should have done it a long time ago. For me it's been a real positive change because I don't worry about my credit card # getting stolen or even needing to take out my wallet. Just activate the pay on the phone and that's it. I've also had no problems at all with returns. I've taken all my credit cards out of my wallet except for one - just in case I'm somewhere that doesn't use NFC yet.. but those places are few and far between.
Old 08-20-19, 02:09 PM
  #8  
Premium Member
 
The Cow's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: Grazing in a field somewhere...
Posts: 20,950
Received 4 Likes on 3 Posts
Re: Contactless Bank/Credit cards

I use ApplePay from my watch on devices that support it. Very convenient.
Old 08-20-19, 02:19 PM
  #9  
Dan
DVD Talk Legend
 
Dan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: rent-free, apparently.
Posts: 20,663
Received 13 Likes on 10 Posts
Re: Contactless Bank/Credit cards

I miss having a contactless card, though I do use my phone (Apple Pay I guess) when it's an option.

Andicus is right about the $100 limit in Canada. Also, I think there's a limit for the # of transactions in a certain time span or in a day, and you're then prompted to use the chip to validate again. That's to avoid folks buying multiple $100 items in a row.

It's super convenient for coffee places, fast food, etc.
Old 08-20-19, 02:36 PM
  #10  
DVD Talk Legend
 
LorenzoL's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 21,017
Received 7 Likes on 6 Posts
Re: Contactless Bank/Credit cards

I love the tap feature of my debit and credit cards. Recently, I received a new credit card and they told me that I would need to sign it with my first transaction which felt really strange. I haven’t signed a credit card slip in years.

I might need to set up Apple Pay on my phone though...
Old 08-20-19, 02:45 PM
  #11  
DVD Talk Legend
 
milo bloom's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Chicago suburbs
Posts: 13,229
Received 5 Likes on 4 Posts
Re: Contactless Bank/Credit cards

Thanks, I should get it set up soon.
Old 08-20-19, 02:57 PM
  #12  
DVD Talk Legend
 
LorenzoL's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 21,017
Received 7 Likes on 6 Posts
Re: Contactless Bank/Credit cards

Is this not very common in the US? The contactless cards?
Old 08-20-19, 02:59 PM
  #13  
DVD Talk Legend
 
Join Date: Jun 1999
Location: USA
Posts: 12,272
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Re: Contactless Bank/Credit cards

Originally Posted by LorenzoL View Post
Is this not very common in the US? The contactless cards?
Many merchants are very far behind, few follow any standards.

Old 08-20-19, 03:02 PM
  #14  
DVD Talk Legend
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: MA
Posts: 12,648
Received 8 Likes on 6 Posts
Re: Contactless Bank/Credit cards

The cards themselves aren't that widespread at this point since we "just" adapted to the chips. Most retailers accept it due to Apple/Samsung Pay.
Old 08-20-19, 03:08 PM
  #15  
DVD Talk Legend
 
LorenzoL's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 21,017
Received 7 Likes on 6 Posts
Re: Contactless Bank/Credit cards

I did not know that. As Andicus said, it's been here in Canada for a few years and it's very convenient for the small items since there's a $100 limit.
Old 08-20-19, 03:12 PM
  #16  
DVD Talk Hero
 
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: Montreal, Canada
Posts: 30,092
Received 5 Likes on 3 Posts
Re: Contactless Bank/Credit cards

The US has always been roughly 10 years behind when it comes to CC technology.

Why America has been slow to adopt modern credit-card technology
.
.
Chip-and-PIN credit cards are designed to reduce fraud. They don't end it, of course. But they help—the adoption of chip-and-PIN in Britain dramatically reduced the rates of some types of card fraud. America is the only rich country that still relies on magnetic strips and signatures for most credit-card transactions. It is also the only one in which the market in counterfeit credit cards is still consistently growing. Retailers, banks and card issuers lost $5.3 billion to credit-card fraud in America in 2012—about half the global total. Here's the trouble: upgrading cards (there are over 1 billion in circulation in America) is expensive. New card-readers are even dearer: upgrading all of the readers in America would cost hundreds of millions of dollars.But America's reluctance to adopt the new technology is about more than just upfront costs. After all, European companies faced the same obstacles. There are two main reasons for the split. The first is technological. During the 1990s American credit card companies got much better at detecting potentially fraudulent purchases and stopping them at the point of sale. Their European competitors didn't quite keep up. That meant Europe had a disproportionate incentive to switch to chip-and-PIN. The second difference is regulatory. Since European credit-card companies are responsible for paying most of the costs of fraud, they have a significant incentive to reduce it. American credit-card companies, which operate under looser regulations, have been able to pass on much of the cost of fraud to retailers and even consumers, and thus have had little incentive to spend money to reduce the costs of fraud.

Since retailers are responsible for a good chunk of the costs of fraud in America, they are now leading the way in making the switch to chip-and-PIN. Home Depot, Target, Walgreens and Walmart—four of America's largest chains—have already made the change, spending oodles of money on new chip-and-PIN-compatible card readers. The credit-card companies will up the pressure on retailers next October, when they begin requiring the party with the least-sophisticated technology to cover the cost of fraudulent transactions. As the (probably apocryphal) Winston Churchill aphorism goes, you can always count on the Americans to do the right thing—after they have tried everything else. Now you just have to come up with a good PIN.

https://www.economist.com/the-econom...ard-technology
Old 08-20-19, 03:41 PM
  #17  
Psi
DVD Talk Hall of Fame
 
Psi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: Texas
Posts: 9,463
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Re: Contactless Bank/Credit cards

Originally Posted by Noonan View Post
The cards themselves aren't that widespread at this point since we "just" adapted to the chips. Most retailers accept it due to Apple/Samsung Pay.
Both the cards and card readers have to be capable. For example at Costco, they went from swiping to inserting into a slot and now finally we can tap to pay. The cards haven't changed. It's just a matter of the retailers upgrading their equipment.
Old 08-20-19, 03:41 PM
  #18  
DVD Talk Legend
 
cultshock's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: True North Strong & Free
Posts: 12,607
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Re: Contactless Bank/Credit cards

Originally Posted by LorenzoL View Post
I did not know that. As Andicus said, it's been here in Canada for a few years and it's very convenient for the small items since there's a $100 limit.
Yeah, welcome to Canada nearly 10 years ago. Not sure why the US is so behind with stuff like this, we also had chips in a card years before the US did. I remember about a year ago when the local 7-11 near where I work in the US added Apple Pay to their terminal. First time I saw it, I tried tapping it with my Canadian CC and it worked. It was like the clerk thought I was using sorcery "Whoa, I didn't know that worked with a card. How did you do that without an iPhone??"
Old 08-20-19, 04:03 PM
  #19  
DVD Talk Limited Edition
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: MA
Posts: 5,559
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Re: Contactless Bank/Credit cards

Originally Posted by milo bloom View Post
I've been hesitant to install ApplePay on my iPhone for the many years I've owned one. Is it worth the trouble?
Really quick to set up and it has saved me a few times when I forgot my wallet but had my phone. I've been surprised by how many places even in my relatively small town in MA accept Apple Pay. Just yesterday I got a new CC in the mail with the wireless icon on it for one of my CC as well. I have to use my fingerprint ID to use the card so to me it seems pretty safe and secure.
Old 08-20-19, 05:00 PM
  #20  
DVD Talk Platinum Edition
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 3,718
Likes: 0
Received 5 Likes on 4 Posts
Re: Contactless Bank/Credit cards

Originally Posted by andicus View Post
Ooooh! I wasn't familiar with NFC. It looks like my card of choice supports it, so I think I'll be switching to that, as it's more secure.
How can it be "more secure" when it dosen't require a PIN, doesn't require you to put the card in a device? So, somebody with a lot to hide (ie someone who's just stolen your card) can tap away with abandon and the cashiers wouldn't even know, because they don't ask to physically see the card, because it's a noncontact card?

I don't buy the "more secure" fluff. Yes, it's more secure because, SHOCK! it saves the credit card companies and banks more money over the oldschool swiping method we've been doing for 30+ years now.

The only way it can be more secure is if there is a very low limit, like $100 as suggested above. But, that begs the question, $100 per transaction, per day, or what? Thieves and hackers can rack up a lot of $100 individual transactions quickly, and that limit won't defer them unless it's a per day limit.
Old 08-20-19, 05:16 PM
  #21  
DVD Talk Special Edition
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Posts: 1,720
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes on 2 Posts
Re: Contactless Bank/Credit cards

Originally Posted by Sonic View Post
Just received notice from my bank I will be receiving a new card that is contactless. Because swiping is too difficult and such a long process. Inserting the chip is also a long wait. Welcome "contactless". Just smack the card on the device and I'm done.
Itís actually a lot quicker than swipe or chip.

Originally Posted by andicus View Post
Crap. There's one drawback... My wife has an iPhone 5s, so it won't be supported for her. I would imagine it also requires data to use, so she's doubly out of luck. It'll piss her off that I can do it and she can't.
It does not require data. Iíve used it overseas weíre I have no data connection.

Originally Posted by eXcenis View Post
The US has always been roughly 10 years behind when it comes to CC technology.
Funny thing is 10 years ago, all my cards (Citi and Chase) had it. It was removed in the new cards they sent out when the old ones expired. Now Iíve just moved on to Apple Pay. I wish Apple had bought the company Samsung bought that letís you use the phone at any point of sale even if it doesnít have NFC.
Old 08-20-19, 05:19 PM
  #22  
Dan
DVD Talk Legend
 
Dan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: rent-free, apparently.
Posts: 20,663
Received 13 Likes on 10 Posts
Re: Contactless Bank/Credit cards

Originally Posted by zyzzle View Post
How can it be "more secure" when it dosen't require a PIN, doesn't require you to put the card in a device?
Because swiping a card exposes it to trivially easy duplication.
Because inserting the chip into a device exposes it to (very rare) chip duplication.
Because a 4-digit PIN can be seen and/or keylogged, therefore duplicated.

A contactless NFC system is, as I understand it, generating a unique, secure 'code' every time it gets used (like a garage door opener, but not over as big of a distance) so 'hacking' is more rare than chip duplication.


So, somebody with a lot to hide (ie someone who's just stolen your card) can tap away with abandon and the cashiers wouldn't even know, because they don't ask to physically see the card, because it's a noncontact card?
No. Even if someone managed to steal your physical card, they'd be limited to 'stealing $100 and/or 'suspicious activity (ie: repeated transactions in a short window at a single vendor, etc.), which you'd more than likely be covered for.


I don't buy the "more secure" fluff. Yes, it's more secure because, SHOCK! it saves the credit card companies and banks more money over the oldschool swiping method we've been doing for 30+ years now.
OK. You clearly understand technology better than anyone else.

The only way it can be more secure is if there is a very low limit, like $100 as suggested above. But, that begs the question, $100 per transaction, per day, or what? Thieves and hackers can rack up a lot of $100 individual transactions quickly, and that limit won't defer them unless it's a per day limit.
Very few countries have limits imposed by the government, but card proprietors can set limits as they see fit.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contac...nt#Floor_limit
Old 08-20-19, 05:51 PM
  #23  
DVD Talk Legend
 
cultshock's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: True North Strong & Free
Posts: 12,607
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Re: Contactless Bank/Credit cards

Yeah, I honestly haven't heard anything about widespread fraud with the "tap" system. As Dan mentioned, a unique code is generated every time. The only time I've been a victim of credit card fraud is with an old magnetic stripe card around 20 years ago. Luckily, the card company removed all the fraudulent charges, as the article above mentioned, credit card companies up here, and in Europe, take the hit with fraud unlike in the US. That's why they have more incentive to make sure their cards are secure.
Old 08-20-19, 05:54 PM
  #24  
DVD Talk Ruler
 
General Zod's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Santa Clarita, CA
Posts: 21,509
Received 2 Likes on 2 Posts
Re: Contactless Bank/Credit cards

Originally Posted by Dan View Post
A contactless NFC system is, as I understand it, generating a unique, secure 'code' every time it gets used (like a garage door opener, but not over as big of a distance) so 'hacking' is more rare than chip duplication.
That's correct. Basically the chip is unique to your card and when it is activated by putting it near an NFC terminal a unique code is generated based on the current date/time and the credit card number (not the one on your card - but the one stored in the chip). That number is then validated via a secure communication through the credit card company - and the transaction takes place. So even if a thief were to intercept the entire transaction all they would get is a long encrypted string with nothing useful in it at all. So this may not be 100% accurate but I think it's pretty close.

Add to this something like Samsung Pay which only activates when you enter a code or use your fingerprint and now really the only way a thief can use it is if they steal your phone and use it within the 30 seconds you've unlocked the app for payment. Pretty safe.
Old 08-20-19, 06:04 PM
  #25  
DVD Talk Hall of Fame
 
andicus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Canada
Posts: 8,064
Received 4 Likes on 4 Posts
Re: Contactless Bank/Credit cards

Originally Posted by Dan View Post
Because swiping a card exposes it to trivially easy duplication.
Because inserting the chip into a device exposes it to (very rare) chip duplication.
Because a 4-digit PIN can be seen and/or keylogged, therefore duplicated.

A contactless NFC system is, as I understand it, generating a unique, secure 'code' every time it gets used (like a garage door opener, but not over as big of a distance) so 'hacking' is more rare than chip duplication.



No. Even if someone managed to steal your physical card, they'd be limited to 'stealing $100 and/or 'suspicious activity (ie: repeated transactions in a short window at a single vendor, etc.), which you'd more than likely be covered for.



OK. You clearly understand technology better than anyone else.



Very few countries have limits imposed by the government, but card proprietors can set limits as they see fit.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contac...nt#Floor_limit
And, on top of all that, as General Zod mentioned, it also needs my fingerprint. Definitely more secure.

Originally Posted by Kdogg View Post
It does not require data. I’ve used it overseas we’re I have no data connection.
Thanks, I read that afterwards. No data required, not even a cell signal. All the info is in the secure chip.

Unfortunately, it still leaves my wife out, as the iPhone 5s doesn't have that chip.

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information

Copyright © 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.