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People who would not be immortalized or considered legends if they did not die early?

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People who would not be immortalized or considered legends if they did not die early?

Old 06-11-19, 07:10 AM
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Re: People who would not be immortalized or considered legends if they did not die early?

[QUOTE=movieguru;13563332]
Originally Posted by robin2099 View Post
Ok, since you know nothing about Bruce Lee here's why he would not have faded into obscurity if he did not die young, because of all his contributions he made.

Movies/TV:
-Portrayed the first Asian costumed superhero(well sort of super hero) in The Green Hornet as Kato.
-Was the biggest movie star in Hong Kong.
-Was the first Asian to headline a hugely successful movie for a major US studio with Enter the Dragon.
/QUOTE]
Since I am the movie guru I do know that enter the Dragon came out about a month after Bruce Lee's death. Just like The Dark Knight owed a lot of its success and ticket sales to Heath Ledger's death, Enter the Dragon's success was also due to the death of Bruce Lee. The mild success of The Crow is also due to the death of Bruce Lee's son, Brandon.
Congratulations on picking a name for yourself like moviguru on a dead media message board but that still doesn't change the fact that your wrong about Bruce Lee. Bruce Lee got Enter The Dragon because of the enormous success which he already had in Hong Kong. Enter the Dragon was going to be a success regardless of his death, and Bruce Lee was notable for so many things that he would be viewed with the same affection as Jackie Chan or Chuck Norris if he did not pass. Bruce Lee wasn't just an actor, a martial artists, a bodybuilder or a movie star, he was all of them and is viewed as a legend for his contributions in all of them.
Now Brandon Lee passing during the filming of the Crow is legit because that got people out to see a movie that they would most likely not have seen if it was not for the knowledge that he died while filming it.
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Old 06-11-19, 07:58 AM
  #77  
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Re: People who would not be immortalized or considered legends if they did not die early?

Marylin Monroe would have been another Hollywood actress who faded from view after age 35, instead of the cultural icon on a million T-shirts. The movie industry always chews up and spits out those hot young women, especially crazy ones like her. She could give intense performances, and she could turn on the sex appeal like nobody else, but it took too many takes for her to get her lines right. Movie companies would have gotten tired of her lack of professionalism when her looks started to go.
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Old 06-11-19, 08:19 AM
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Re: People who would not be immortalized or considered legends if they did not die early?

Originally Posted by rw2516 View Post
With the exception of Jesus and maybe Hitler, The Beatles are the most famous people to have ever lived.
Ummm. No. In the western world maybe, but there are tons more Asians worldwide who would say Buddha is more famous than Jesus.
Just go to mainland China. A lot of people don't know who the fuck Jesus is and there's a whole lot more of them than us. Funny thing is most do know who Bruce Lee is.
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Old 06-11-19, 09:21 AM
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Re: People who would not be immortalized or considered legends if they did not die early?

[QUOTE=robin2099;13563449]
Originally Posted by movieguru View Post
Congratulations on picking a name for yourself like moviguru on a dead media message board but that still doesn't change the fact that your wrong about Bruce Lee. Bruce Lee got Enter The Dragon because of the enormous success which he already had in Hong Kong. Enter the Dragon was going to be a success regardless of his death, and Bruce Lee was notable for so many things that he would be viewed with the same affection as Jackie Chan or Chuck Norris if he did not pass. Bruce Lee wasn't just an actor, a martial artists, a bodybuilder or a movie star, he was all of them and is viewed as a legend for his contributions in all of them.
Now Brandon Lee passing during the filming of the Crow is legit because that got people out to see a movie that they would most likely not have seen if it was not for the knowledge that he died while filming it.
U.S. made martial arts films were never much of a success before or after Enter the Dragon. Just about whenever a main actor of a film dies before the movie is released in theaters, it is going to get a box office boost due to the press that will surround the death of the actor. So Enter the Dragon would have grossed much less if Bruce Lee had not died so soon before the movies release. Does anyone think The Dark Knight would have grossed anywhere near as much had Ledger not died before the movie's theatrical release? Very few would remember or have gone to see The Crow had it not been for brandon Lee's death on the set.
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Old 06-11-19, 09:26 AM
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Re: People who would not be immortalized or considered legends if they did not die early?

Originally Posted by movieguru View Post

U.S. made martial arts films were never much of a success before or after Enter the Dragon. Just about whenever a main actor of a film dies before the movie is released in theaters, it is going to get a box office boost due to the press that will surround the death of the actor. So Enter the Dragon would have grossed much less if Bruce Lee had not died so soon before the movies release. Does anyone think The Dark Knight would have grossed anywhere near as much had Ledger not died before the movie's theatrical release? Very few would remember or have gone to see The Crow had it not been for brandon Lee's death on the set.
IMO you are grossly underestimating the quality of the films you listed. They didn't do well simply because they star and actor who died.

If TDK only grossed as much as it did because Ledger passed, why did it's sequel gross even more? No one in that cast died.
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Old 06-11-19, 09:29 AM
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Re: People who would not be immortalized or considered legends if they did not die early?

Of all the people listed in this thread I don't think any of them would be forgotten had they lived longer.

The one amendment is I had no idea the name of the lead singer of Sublime. Not a fan of the band and I don't consider them legendary, not a one hit wonder but far from legendary but that's my opinion.
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Old 06-11-19, 09:38 AM
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Re: People who would not be immortalized or considered legends if they did not die early?

Originally Posted by jpcamb View Post
Of all the people listed in this thread I don't think any of them would be forgotten had they lived longer.

The one amendment is I had no idea the name of the lead singer of Sublime. Not a fan of the band and I don't consider them legendary, not a one hit wonder but far from legendary but that's my opinion.
They aren't. There's a difference between staying power and "legendary", hell Sugar Ray still gets played a lot and last I checked Mark McGrath is still alive and not at all legendary.

I say that as a fan of Sublime. It's disposable fun music but that's about it.
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Old 06-11-19, 09:43 AM
  #83  
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Re: People who would not be immortalized or considered legends if they did not die early?

Originally Posted by mrhan View Post
Ummm. No. In the western world maybe, but there are tons more Asians worldwide who would say Buddha is more famous than Jesus. Just go to mainland China. A lot of people don't know who the fuck Jesus is and there's a whole lot more of them than us. Funny thing is most do know who Bruce Lee is.


Christianity has more followers and a much broader reach. Historically, it's had a massive influence on the world. And most other religions including Islam recognize Jesus in some way or another (prophet/teacher/...). It's not even close.
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Old 06-11-19, 09:45 AM
  #84  
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Re: People who would not be immortalized or considered legends if they did not die early?

Please, let's keep religion out of this thread. It has nothing to do with the topic.
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Old 06-11-19, 09:47 AM
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Re: People who would not be immortalized or considered legends if they did not die early?

Originally Posted by Deadman31 View Post
Except one of these people was imaginary.
There really was an historical Jesus.
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Old 06-11-19, 10:04 AM
  #86  
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Re: People who would not be immortalized or considered legends if they did not die early?

Originally Posted by RichC2 View Post
They aren't. There's a difference between staying power and "legendary", hell Sugar Ray still gets played a lot and last I checked Mark McGrath is still alive and not at all legendary.

I say that as a fan of Sublime. It's disposable fun music but that's about it.
Lemonade and Brownies is Sugar Ray's best album. 10 Seconds Down is a great track off of Escape from L.A. soundtrack. They totally sold out and changed their sound when it bombed. Fuck, the Lemonade and Brownies cover of the album is also legendary but for a different reason.

/offtopic
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Old 06-11-19, 10:58 AM
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Re: People who would not be immortalized or considered legends if they did not die early?

Originally Posted by Noonan View Post
IMO you are grossly underestimating the quality of the films you listed. They didn't do well simply because they star and actor who died.

If TDK only grossed as much as it did because Ledger passed, why did it's sequel gross even more? No one in that cast died.
TDK set the bar that left people hungry for the sequel. I still firmly believe that the box office for TDK was boosted significantly by Ledger's death. It still would have done very well, of course, but I think that there were a lot of people who made an effort to see it in theaters who otherwise would not have if he had been alive. Of course there is no way to prove this, but that's how I feel. I also don't think that he gets an Oscar for the performance if he is alive to accept it. The fact that he was dead and would never make another film made it "okay" for them to award it for a performance in a comic book movie.

Last edited by Obi-Wan Jabroni; 06-11-19 at 11:05 AM.
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Old 06-11-19, 11:20 AM
  #88  
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Re: People who would not be immortalized or considered legends if they did not die early?

Originally Posted by Noonan View Post
IMO you are grossly underestimating the quality of the films you listed. They didn't do well simply because they star and actor who died.

If TDK only grossed as much as it did because Ledger passed, why did it's sequel gross even more? No one in that cast died.
Batman Begins only made $374m world wide. The Dark Knight made $1.004b. The Dark Knight rises made 1.084b. It only grossed $80m more and adjusted for inflation the difference would be negligible. There's obviously a significant jump from the first movie to the second and while there is no way of telling what this would have done if Ledger hadn't died, his death DID increase the number of people that went to see it. I'll even bet if we were to look at the old thread about the movie prior to when it cam out on DVDTALK we would see a significant increase in the number of posts that occurred right after his death and an increase in the number of people on here that now said they wanted to see it. I'll even bet that there were many members on here that posted they were going to see it in the theaters as it would be the last movie with Heath Ledger in it.

When I went to see this movie in the theater, there were a lot of older/seniors there at the showing I was at. After the movie ended one of these seniors was complaining to his wife about how horrible the movie was and here response was "well we wanted to see what all the fuss was about over Heath Ledger".

In any event I would say that there were more people going to see it only because of Ledger's death than there were people not going to see it only because of Ledger's death.
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Old 06-11-19, 11:23 AM
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Re: People who would not be immortalized or considered legends if they did not die early?

Don't know if anyone mentioned her in this thread or not, but I would say that Anna Nicole is more well known now due to her early demise than she was before. I don't really think she would likely qualify as "legendary", but she is still used quite often as fodder for cover stories on supermarket tabloids.
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Old 06-11-19, 11:31 AM
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Re: People who would not be immortalized or considered legends if they did not die early?

Originally Posted by mabuse View Post


there really was an historical jesus.
🙄
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Old 06-11-19, 11:44 AM
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Re: People who would not be immortalized or considered legends if they did not die early?

Originally Posted by movieguru View Post
Don't know if anyone mentioned her in this thread or not, but I would say that Anna Nicole is more well known now due to her early demise than she was before. I don't really think she would likely qualify as "legendary", but she is still used quite often as fodder for cover stories on supermarket tabloids.
I think she's mostly forgotten by now, she was huge tabloid fodder in the period prior to her death though, especially after her son passed away.

Originally Posted by Deadman31 View Post
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There were people in that era, and odds are at least one presumably started or inspired the start of a religion and was likely killed for it.

Last edited by RichC2; 06-11-19 at 11:55 AM.
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Old 06-11-19, 11:47 AM
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Re: People who would not be immortalized or considered legends if they did not die early?

Originally Posted by RichC2 View Post
I think she's mostly forgotten by now, she was huge tabloid fodder in the period prior to her death though, especially after her son passed away.
She was on the cover of one of the tabloids a few weeks back. It was regarding her daughter, but something about her shows up fairly often. Not as prolific as Elvis is with the tabloids, but she still makes her appearances on them. Doesn't she still have some kind of beauty/ fashion brand out there with her name attached to it?
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Old 06-11-19, 11:52 AM
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Re: People who would not be immortalized or considered legends if they did not die early?

Originally Posted by movieguru View Post
She was on the cover of one of the tabloids a few weeks back. It was regarding her daughter, but something about her shows up fairly often. Not as prolific as Elvis is with the tabloids, but she still makes her appearances on them. Doesn't she still have some kind of beauty/ fashion brand out there with her name attached to it?
Yeah I just mean she was already pretty well known tabloid fodder when she was alive, I don't think her dying actually modified that much in the long run. You'd still be seeing stuff about her daughter now because it was a story in 1997, and tabloids are all about keeping those stories alive. Her death was a bit of a surprise because of how much coverage she was getting up to that point.

I think she was attached to TrimSpa back in the day.
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Old 06-11-19, 12:30 PM
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Re: People who would not be immortalized or considered legends if they did not die early?

Originally Posted by RichC2 View Post
There were people in that era, and odds are at least one presumably started or inspired the start of a religion and was likely killed for it.
I'm an atheist and I can't deny there was indeed an historical Jesus. The overwhelming majority of scholars agree.
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Old 06-11-19, 01:07 PM
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Re: People who would not be immortalized or considered legends if they did not die early?

Originally Posted by eXcentris View Post
I'm an atheist and I can't deny there was indeed an historical Jesus. The overwhelming majority of scholars agree.
I am sorry but there is absolutely no proof of historical Jesus. There just isnít.


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Old 06-11-19, 01:11 PM
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Re: People who would not be immortalized or considered legends if they did not die early?

Marilyn Monroe might have faded but that image of her with the white dress blowing up would always be iconic. Audrey Hepburn lived a long life and the images of her in the little black dress from Breakfast At Tiffany's will always remain just like the Monroe one.
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Old 06-11-19, 01:24 PM
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Re: People who would not be immortalized or considered legends if they did not die early?

Originally Posted by Deadman31 View Post
I am sorry but there is absolutely no proof of historical Jesus. There just isnít.
Well again, you're wrong. There might be differences in the portraits/attributes ascribed to Jesus by various scholars and that might also differ from the Gospels, but there's overwhelming consensus among these scholars that an historical Jesus existed:

Contemporary scholars of antiquity agree that Jesus existed, and biblical scholars and classical historians view the theories of his nonexistence as effectively refuted.[5][7][200][201][202] Historian James Dunn writes: "Today nearly all historians, whether Christians or not, accept that Jesus existed".[203] In a 2011 review of the state of modern scholarship, Bart Ehrman (a secular agnostic) wrote: "He certainly existed, as virtually every competent scholar of antiquity, Christian or non-Christian, agrees."[33]:15-22 Robert M. Price (an atheist who denies the existence of Jesus) agrees that this perspective runs against the views of the majority of scholars.[204] Michael Grant (a classicist and historian) states that "In recent years, 'no serious scholar has ventured to postulate the non historicity of Jesus' or at any rate very few, and they have not succeeded in disposing of the much stronger, indeed very abundant, evidence to the contrary."[7] Richard A. Burridge states: "There are those who argue that Jesus is a figment of the Churchís imagination, that there never was a Jesus at all. I have to say that I do not know any respectable critical scholar who says that anymore."[205][195]:24Ė26

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Histor...ge_about_Jesus
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Old 06-11-19, 01:26 PM
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Re: People who would not be immortalized or considered legends if they did not die early?

Perhaps the Jesus existed discussion could be had in the umm Religion and politics forum?
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Old 06-11-19, 01:46 PM
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Re: People who would not be immortalized or considered legends if they did not die early?

I’m done with this stupid argument but I will say this if there was just some guy named Jesus walking around being a normal guy doing normal guy things all those years ago, then he wins this debate.
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Old 06-11-19, 01:54 PM
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Re: People who would not be immortalized or considered legends if they did not die early?

Well, science wins this debate. And as an atheist, that's how my world works. In fact it's a little odd that atheists/agnostics would base the existence of an historical Jesus on faith.
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