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New York Times: UFOs may be real!

Old 01-17-19, 01:22 PM
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New York Times: UFOs may be real!

This article in The New York Times today on Project Blue Book (tied in to the History Channel series) comes closer than I've ever seen the paper come to admitting that the government may take UFOs far more seriously than their public pronouncements would indicate and may in fact believe they're of extraterrestrial origin. This is quite a change from the usual NYT practice of debunking, ignoring or suppressing UFO reports.

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/01/15/a...rue-story.html

There are lots of good quotes, but here's a sizeable one to mull over:

A new project, code-named “Sign,” based at Wright Field (now Wright-Patterson Air Force Base) outside Dayton, Ohio, was given the mandate to collect U.F.O. reports and assess whether the phenomenon was a threat to national security. With Russia ruled out as the source, the staff wrote a top secret “Estimate of the Situation,” concluding that, based on the evidence, U.F.O.s most likely had an interplanetary origin.

According to government officials at the time, the estimate was rejected by General Hoyt Vandenberg, the Air Force chief of staff. From then on, the proponents of the off-planet hypothesis lost ground, with Vandenberg and others insisting that conventional explanations be found.

Project Sign eventually evolved into Project Blue Book, with the aim of convincing the public that flying saucers could be explained.

Yet behind the scenes, authorities grappled with something sobering: well-documented U.F.O. encounters involved multiple trained observers, radar data, photographs, marks on the ground and physical effects on airplanes.

In 1952, the office of Maj. Gen. John Samford, the Air Force director of intelligence, briefed the F.B.I., saying it was “not entirely impossible that the objects sighted may possibly be ships from another planet such as Mars,” according to government documents. Air Intelligence had largely ruled out an earthly source, the F.B.I. memo reported.

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Old 01-17-19, 01:28 PM
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Re: New York Times: UFOs may be real!

Of course UFOs are real. They just aren’t of alien origins. It’s all secret military hardware.
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Old 01-17-19, 01:38 PM
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Re: New York Times: UFOs may be real!

I’m positive there is no intelligent life outside our planet.
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Old 01-17-19, 01:41 PM
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Re: New York Times: UFOs may be real!

What about on it?
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Old 01-17-19, 01:44 PM
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Re: New York Times: UFOs may be real!

With the vastness of space it would be hard to imagine that with the infinite number of planets our there that we are the only one with life. However that same vastness I believe will prevent us from ever knowing for sure.
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Old 01-17-19, 01:59 PM
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Re: New York Times: UFOs may be real!

Originally Posted by Abob Teff View Post
What about on it?
It sure doesn't seem like it, especially these days.


I personally believe that there is life elsewhere in the universe. What sort of life I do not know. Will we make contact with any in my lifetime? I'm not really counting on it.
But we aren't really that fucking special. If the right combination of ingredients can create life here, why not somewhere else?
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Old 01-17-19, 02:26 PM
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Re: New York Times: UFOs may be real!

I'm confident there are other lifeforms out there. Completely different from what we define as "life." Probably millions of planets with beings that think they're also alone in the universe and can't communicate beyond their planet. Or don't want to. Most probably don't even "think" the way we define "think."

There is no way we are the only planet in the entire universe with life on it.
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Old 01-17-19, 02:28 PM
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Re: New York Times: UFOs may be real!

Aliens were just about to make first contact when an episode of Keeping Up With The Kardashians got into their feed and they turned around and went home.
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Old 01-17-19, 03:31 PM
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Re: New York Times: UFOs may be real!

The possibility of life on other planets isn’t really the topic. It’s UFO’s. That is aliens visiting us. And that has not and will not happen.
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Old 01-17-19, 03:35 PM
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Re: New York Times: UFOs may be real!

^ I love the confidence in your statements. Its almost as if they were based on facts
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Old 01-17-19, 04:19 PM
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Re: New York Times: UFOs may be real!

Originally Posted by Mabuse View Post
The possibility of life on other planets isn’t really the topic. It’s UFO’s. That is aliens visiting us. And that has not and will not happen.
It has happened in my opinion and from accounts of the famous Roswell incident (pretty hard denying it happened when you have many witnesses who have come forward and/or statements released after their deaths), but the acknowledgement has the US Government split in ideologies. Some say the public should know...others don't want us to know. Think X-Files scenarios, where information battles within governments occur over unexplained events that happen all over the world.

I will agree, that 95% of all UFOs...are man-made. We have technologies that go well beyond what we have now, but the problem is, you have major industries that would disappear overnight and thus...they have their people in governments all over the world to make sure those industries do not disappear, even at the sacrifice of having cures for all types of diseases, and creating crashless vehicles.
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Old 01-17-19, 04:47 PM
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Re: New York Times: UFOs may be real!

I generally subscribe to the rare Earth hypothesis. Especially now that we’re finding so many exosolar planets, I think that the conditions needed for life to develop in the first place and thrive are fairly extraordinary.

And in the places where it does happen, it’s probably mostly simple single-celled life. And in the rare cases where there is complex life (remember that it took some three billion years for the Cambrian explosion to happen here), that intelligent life will be even rarer, and life intelligent enough to develop technology will be even rarer.

For all we know, we might be the only life in the galaxy. Or the only complex life, or the only intelligent life, or the only life capable of technology.

And even if life is capable of technology, it might be flat out impossible to develop interstellar travel and overcome the energy requirements and the laws of physics. The warp drives and hyperspace travel of Star Trek and Star Wars might be as impossible and out of our reach as the magicks used by Harry Potter. So any intelligent technological life out there will be stuck to their own solar systems.
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Old 01-17-19, 05:35 PM
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Re: New York Times: UFOs may be real!

With all the vastness of space, both in size and time, of course there is life elsewhere. But it may be in our past, or in a future humans won’t live long enough to see. Life is a blink. Dinosaurs were here for a blink. We have been here for a blink. Dinosaurs never built a rocket. While life elsewhere is likely, life elsewhere simultaneously to us is unlikely. Two planets sharing the same simultaneous blink, both with the ability to contact one another. No way.
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Old 01-17-19, 06:57 PM
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Re: New York Times: UFOs may be real!

Originally Posted by DVD Polizei View Post
It has happened in my opinion and from accounts of the famous Roswell incident (pretty hard denying it happened when you have many witnesses who have come forward and/or statements released after their deaths), but the acknowledgement has the US Government split in ideologies. Some say the public should know...others don't want us to know. Think X-Files scenarios, where information battles within governments occur over unexplained events that happen all over the world.

I will agree, that 95% of all UFOs...are man-made. We have technologies that go well beyond what we have now, but the problem is, you have major industries that would disappear overnight and thus...they have their people in governments all over the world to make sure those industries do not disappear, even at the sacrifice of having cures for all types of diseases, and creating crashless vehicle.
I like the explanation in Men in Black about not revealing it to the public.
J: “why the big secret? People are smart, they can handle it.”
K: “A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky, dangerous animals and you know it.”

Originally Posted by Mabuse View Post
With all the vastness of space, both in size and time, of course there is life elsewhere. But it may be in our past, or in a future humans won’t live long enough to see. Life is a blink. Dinosaurs were here for a blink. We have been here for a blink. Dinosaurs never built a rocket. While life elsewhere is likely, life elsewhere simultaneously to us is unlikely. Two planets sharing the same simultaneous blink, both with the ability to contact one another. No way.
Interesting but wouldn’t blinks eventually be in a place where both civilizations have adequate technology to contact one another?
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Old 01-17-19, 08:53 PM
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Re: New York Times: UFOs may be real!

I firmly believe that we are not alone in the universe, that there are other sentient life forms that exist in the vastness of our universe, and they may not even be carbon-based. To think that we are alone in the universe is not even remotely believable to me. We are just one tiny speck amongst trillions of tiny specks in the vastness of space.
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Old 01-18-19, 12:56 AM
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Re: New York Times: UFOs may be real!

I’m positive there is no intelligent life outside this forum.
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Old 01-18-19, 01:03 AM
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Re: New York Times: UFOs may be real!

I believe there is life elsewhere in the universe. How complex? I don’t know.

I don’t believe some hillbilly in the South got removed from his bedroom by a UFO in the middle of the night and was experimented on, and then was returned. Or any of those similar stories...not buying it.
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Old 01-18-19, 01:36 AM
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Re: New York Times: UFOs may be real!

I can’t fathom there not being life somewhere. But is it visiting us? Considering the distances involved, it seems unlikely, assuming they’re biological and aren’t using methods that are still hypothetical to us. Having said that, I did see something in the sky once that I’ve never been able to identify as man-made. I certainly don’t rule it out, but have never seen anything remotely similar.
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Old 01-18-19, 05:54 AM
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Re: New York Times: UFOs may be real!

Even at light speed it would take thousands of years for another race to reach Earth. They would have to be immortals or some kind of generational ship. Theoretical faster than light speed rates alongside theoretical time travel.
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Old 01-18-19, 06:15 AM
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Re: New York Times: UFOs may be real!

Originally Posted by Mabuse View Post
With all the vastness of space, both in size and time, of course there is life elsewhere. But it may be in our past, or in a future humans won’t live long enough to see. Life is a blink. Dinosaurs were here for a blink. We have been here for a blink. Dinosaurs never built a rocket. While life elsewhere is likely, life elsewhere simultaneously to us is unlikely. Two planets sharing the same simultaneous blink, both with the ability to contact one another. No way.
Wow, that's the most cogent and concise explantion of the "does other life exist in the Universe" debate that I've ever read. And, yes, I think you nailed it 100%, and the "debate" is now at an end. Q. E. D.

Other life exists, but we'll never see it due to physical constraits of space and time. Most explanations and / or justificatiions seem to always be tinged with an ulterior motive, be it a profit motive, a religious motive, or a purely political one.

The UFO business is of course utter bunk, rubbish, falderal because of the fallacy of people choosing not to believe in the fickleness / blink of time of man's existence and the true insigificance of it compared to global "Universe" time on a purely physical and mathematical scale. Yes, people have truly "seen" UFOs, but all in *their* mind's eye only. The psyche is a powerful mistress, as they say. To all the great LSD trips, and (imagined) UFO sightings!
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Old 01-18-19, 07:55 AM
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Re: New York Times: UFOs may be real!

I'm surprised at all the skeptics here. I'm guessing it's because younger people never experienced waves of UFO news cycles like I did. In the '50s, '60s and '70s, there were frequent waves of such reports and the media covered them. Then at a certain point, it all got quashed and we hardly ever saw such news cycles even though UFO reports were no less frequent. They were covered only on "Coast to Coast" and in UFO magazines and other fringe/conspiracy press. Is that the reason?

Just for comparison, look at the headline in the upper right hand corner of what was once the most mainstream magazine in the country:
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Old 01-18-19, 08:02 AM
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Re: New York Times: UFOs may be real!

Originally Posted by Ash Ketchum View Post
I'm surprised at all the skeptics here.
You're surprised at all the skeptics of something that's never been proven?

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Old 01-18-19, 08:31 AM
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Re: New York Times: UFOs may be real!

Originally Posted by kefrank View Post
You're surprised at all the skeptics of something that's never been proven?
Pretty sure it's been proven. What hasn't been proven/discovered, is why the secrecy of governments keeping known events secret from the public, when those events are around 70 years old.

Speaking of Marilyn M, the reason I think she was murdered was due to threatening to reveal secrets (which included ufo info revealed during pillow talk with JFK) if JFK didn't return her calls and wouldn't stop shutting her out.
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Old 01-18-19, 08:49 AM
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Re: New York Times: UFOs may be real!

I remember those UFO news cycles. But anyone who ever took a science class laughed at the people who believed we’ve been visited.
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Old 01-18-19, 10:22 AM
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Re: New York Times: UFOs may be real!

Originally Posted by zyzzle View Post
Wow, that's the most cogent and concise explantion of the "does other life exist in the Universe" debate that I've ever read. And, yes, I think you nailed it 100%, and the "debate" is now at an end. Q. E. D.

Other life exists, but we'll never see it due to physical constraits of space and time. Most explanations and / or justificatiions seem to always be tinged with an ulterior motive, be it a profit motive, a religious motive, or a purely political one.

The UFO business is of course utter bunk, rubbish, falderal because of the fallacy of people choosing not to believe in the fickleness / blink of time of man's existence and the true insigificance of it compared to global "Universe" time on a purely physical and mathematical scale. Yes, people have truly "seen" UFOs, but all in *their* mind's eye only. The psyche is a powerful mistress, as they say. To all the great LSD trips, and (imagined) UFO sightings!
Thank you.
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