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Amusement park: Give us the finger, we won’t tell! (Biometric data lawsuit)

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Amusement park: Give us the finger, we won’t tell! (Biometric data lawsuit)

Old 12-08-18, 10:32 PM
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Amusement park: Give us the finger, we won’t tell! (Biometric data lawsuit)

Meanwhile, in Illinois ...

The Illinois Supreme Court is hearing a case involving the collection and use of a person’s biometric data without consent.

https://www.gizmodo.com/six-flags-bi...1830656685/amp


Six Flags Biometric Case Could Turn One of the Toughest Privacy Laws in the U.S. Upside Down

Rhett Jones
11/26/18 2:35pm

For the last decade, Illinois has had the nation’s most rigorous law protecting citizens’ biometric privacy information. It’s also a heavily litigated piece of legislation that’s pulled high-profile companies like Google and Facebook into class action lawsuits. Now, Six Flags is contesting a suit that threatens to totally defang the statute.

The Biometric Information Privacy Act (BIPA), passed by Illinois lawmakers in 2008, stipulates that a company doing business in the state must obtain explicit written consent from an individual before collecting their biometric identifiers, such as fingerprints. Penalties are set at a $1,000 fine per violation, and $5,000 per violation if an offending company is found to be violating the statute either intentionally or recklessly. The problem is, the state doesn’t prosecute BIPA violations, it only grants individuals the right to sue. Six Flags is trying to make that very difficult.

The case revolves around the question of whether a company can be held liable for violating BIPA if a plaintiff is unable to demonstrate “harm.” Stacy Rosenbach claims that the theme park fingerprinted her 14-year-old son when he was picking up a season pass to the park on a group trip. Rosenbach says she did not give permission for the company to collect and store her son’s fingerprints. Six Flags argues that for Rosenbach to qualify as a “person aggrieved,” she must demonstrate that the collection of her son’s identifiable biometric information resulted in some type of injury.

The Illinois Supreme Court held appellate hearings on the case last week, and according to Law360, at least three of the seven justices hearing the case were skeptical of the arguments made by attorneys representing Six Flags. The initial trial court rejected Six Flags’ argument, but it certified two questions for appeal that revolve around the definition of “aggrieved.” Last December, the Second District Appellate Court agreed with Six Flags, and now the case is in the hands of the states’ highest court. What’s at stake is a legal definition that could affect a similar pending lawsuit against Facebook that could potentially result in billions of dollars worth of fines.

According to Law360's account of last week’s proceedings, Justice Anne Burke told Six Flags’ attorneys that their argument does not consider the initial violation of the statute. “How does one challenge that, if that isn’t harm,” Justice Burke asked. “There’s no opportunity for the guardian to say no or [be] given the information of what they could do.”
The question at the heart of the matter is “when is a person harmed?” Six Flags claims they haven’t violated your rights until their system is breached by an intruder and the data is actually compromised.

So ... Six Flags’ logic is that I should be able to take nude photos of a person without permission as long as I don’t publish the photos. Or that I could steal your car as long as I don’t drive it.
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Old 12-09-18, 04:34 PM
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Re: Amusement park: Give us the finger, we won’t tell! (Biometric data lawsuit)

Originally Posted by Abob Teff View Post
So ... Six Flags’ logic is that I should be able to take nude photos of a person without permission as long as I don’t publish the photos. Or that I could steal your car as long as I don’t drive it.
Same type of circular and fallacious logic that all these companies use to weasel their way out of liability. The main point seems to be the plantiff is saying "Look, I'm calling out your game. You're not my friend, and you're harvesting my data for some nefarious, unclear purpose, which definitely doesn't have my best interests at heart. I don't want you to do that. Stop. And pay me for my trouble, please."

That's it. I wish more people called out these companies like this plantiff. Europe already has. It's called the EU General Data Protection Regulation (GDPR).

The US badly, desperately needs some federal rules similar to that or we'll all be owned, literally and figuratively, by these evil corporations.
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Old 12-09-18, 04:48 PM
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Re: Amusement park: Give us the finger, we won’t tell! (Biometric data lawsuit)

Maybe I'm missing something, but why is a fucking amusement park collecting fingerprints?
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Old 12-09-18, 04:55 PM
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Re: Amusement park: Give us the finger, we won’t tell! (Biometric data lawsuit)

Originally Posted by zyzzle View Post
Spoiler:
Same type of circular and fallacious logic that all these companies use to weasel their way out of liability. The main point seems to be the plantiff is saying "Look, I'm calling out your game. You're not my friend, and you're harvesting my data for some nefarious, unclear purpose, which definitely doesn't have my best interests at heart. I don't want you to do that. Stop. And pay me for my trouble, please."

That's it. I wish more people called out these companies like this plantiff. Europe already has. It's called the EU General Data Protection Regulation (GDPR).

Spoiler:
The US badly, desperately needs some federal rules similar to that or we'll all be owned, literally and figuratively, by these evil corporations.
Joke is on you because most, I'd say about 2/3 of European companies (even though the deadline was May of this year!), as of today...are NOT GDPR-compliant.

Just like other popular causes like the Paris Agreement, GDPR falls flat on its face.
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Old 12-09-18, 05:02 PM
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Re: Amusement park: Give us the finger, we won’t tell! (Biometric data lawsuit)

To use for their season pass holders. In order to prevent you from giving your card to somebody else to use ... er, I mean as a customer service to you in case you forget your card! Plus, I’m sure you can link it to your bank account/credit card to use for purchases.

The other bit that is slipping by most commentary I have seen is that it actually was a minor that they took the print from. Mom filed the suit.

I agree zyzzle, the US needs some sort of enforceable GDPR. However we won’t get it under the current administration. When they rolled back Net Neutrality our stupid Congressman claimed the franchise agreements that municipalities sign with cable companies would protect consumers.

However, the cat is already out of the bag. The big tech companies already own us.
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Old 12-09-18, 05:16 PM
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Re: Amusement park: Give us the finger, we won’t tell! (Biometric data lawsuit)

Wow. I'm sorry, but I've only given my fingerprints for a government background check. Maybe I live in a country that values freedoms and human rights a little bit better so this thing seems weird, I'd never give biometric data to someone just so I can ride their rollercoasters.
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Old 12-09-18, 05:27 PM
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Re: Amusement park: Give us the finger, we won’t tell! (Biometric data lawsuit)

Originally Posted by Abob Teff View Post
To use for their season pass holders. In order to prevent you from giving your card to somebody else to use ... er, I mean as a customer service to you in case you forget your card! Plus, I’m sure you can link it to your bank account/credit card to use for purchases.

The other bit that is slipping by most commentary I have seen is that it actually was a minor that they took the print from. Mom filed the suit.

I agree zyzzle, the US needs some sort of enforceable GDPR. However we won’t get it under the current administration. When they rolled back Net Neutrality our stupid Congressman claimed the franchise agreements that municipalities sign with cable companies would protect consumers.

However, the cat is already out of the bag. The big tech companies already own us.
Why would you expect a Democrat President to do you any better. You do remember Obama and Monsanto...right? I think all of our Presidents since the last great half century, have made nefarious deals with corporations, who knew damn well they would stomp on consumer's rights and citizen privacy.

Washington, DC is owned by corporations. The US Government works...for the corporate world. Red, Blue, doesn't matter.

Unfortunately, thread will end up in political forum.
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Old 12-09-18, 05:59 PM
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Re: Amusement park: Give us the finger, we won’t tell! (Biometric data lawsuit)

Originally Posted by DVD Polizei View Post
Joke is on you because most, I'd say about 2/3 of European companies (even though the deadline was May of this year!), as of today...are NOT GDPR-compliant.

Just like other popular causes like the Paris Agreement, GDPR falls flat on its face.
I realize that, of course. Companies are fighting and / or noncomplying with GDPR with everything they've got. The only way they'll comply is if the fines become 'serious' enough for them to notice. Right now, it seems it is far, far cheaper for them to pay slap-on-the-wrist token amounts for breaking the law than it is to actually comply. The cost is peanuts compared to what they're making on surreptitious data harvesting / mining.

But, at least it's a start. The US doesn't have any consumer protection at all against companies using your information in whatever way they see fit.

And, this thread needn't go into the Politics forum. It's a given that the Administration -- regardless of ticket -- will be paid off by these companies so no real universal consumer protection law will probably ever become law in the US. It's wishful thinking. We're owned by the companies.

Until then, people like myself can speak with their wallets, even though they may be inconvenienced and / or depriving themselves.
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Old 12-09-18, 06:05 PM
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Re: Amusement park: Give us the finger, we won’t tell! (Biometric data lawsuit)

How did they allow Six Flags to get this far?

Oh wait, money.
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Old 12-09-18, 06:55 PM
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Re: Amusement park: Give us the finger, we won’t tell! (Biometric data lawsuit)

Disney is fingerprinting all annual pass holders in Florida. They haven't rolled this out in California yet, and I imagine this case or others like it are the reason why.
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Old 12-09-18, 07:06 PM
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Re: Amusement park: Give us the finger, we won’t tell! (Biometric data lawsuit)

Yeah, the only way to stop this outright is to have people vote with their wallets. Which isn't going to happen.

That or a massive hack where people figure out how to replicate finger prints accurately enough to trick the readers at the parks.
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Old 12-09-18, 07:37 PM
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Re: Amusement park: Give us the finger, we won’t tell! (Biometric data lawsuit)

Originally Posted by Mabuse View Post
Disney is fingerprinting all annual pass holders in Florida. They haven't rolled this out in California yet, and I imagine this case or others like it are the reason why.
Not just season pass holders but anyone who books through Disney and stays at a Disney resort. They mail you wristbands programmed with your info and you can use them to use your fastpass and pay for basically anything on site, as well as to open your room and such.

It's... It's actually pretty cool.
Probably totally super invasive and zyzzle's worst nightmare, but like... It's neat.
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Old 12-09-18, 07:52 PM
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Re: Amusement park: Give us the finger, we won’t tell! (Biometric data lawsuit)

Originally Posted by Dan View Post
Not just season pass holders but anyone who books through Disney and stays at a Disney resort. They mail you wristbands programmed with your info and you can use them to use your fastpass and pay for basically anything on site, as well as to open your room and such.

It's... It's actually pretty cool.
Probably totally super invasive and zyzzle's worst nightmare, but like... It's neat.
Yep and you have to remember which finger younscsnned the last time. Even my child who was 5 the first year we went.
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Old 12-09-18, 07:55 PM
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Re: Amusement park: Give us the finger, we won’t tell! (Biometric data lawsuit)

^ haha yeah. My kid is five and we went this year. Same thing happened. We didn't remember which one she used so they had to reauthorize her wristband.
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Old 12-09-18, 10:22 PM
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Re: Amusement park: Give us the finger, we won’t tell! (Biometric data lawsuit)

Originally Posted by DVD Polizei View Post
Why would you expect a Democrat President to do you any better? {edited for brevity}

Unfortunately, thread will end up in political forum.
No reason for this to go to politics unless people keep touting it as a political issue. I was just pointing out we will never get anything like GDPR when the government is stripping away the small protections we had. It doesn’t matter which party — I agree that both are too beholden to big business and it is only getting worse.

However, what is contributing to that is this corporate mentality of “the rules don’t apply to us” and government’s unwilllingness to hold them accountable. Hopefully the Illinois Supreme Court upholds our rights on this.

I have no issue with Six Flags wanting to utilize the technology for this purpose. However, they need to offer consumers who do not want to use this an alternative. They can ask you to use your fingerprint ... they don’t have a right to make a customer do it.
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Old 12-10-18, 05:00 PM
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Re: Amusement park: Give us the finger, we won’t tell! (Biometric data lawsuit)

Originally Posted by Dan View Post
Not just season pass holders but anyone who books through Disney and stays at a Disney resort. They mail you wristbands programmed with your info and you can use them to use your fastpass and pay for basically anything on site, as well as to open your room and such.

It's... It's actually pretty cool.
Probably totally super invasive and zyzzle's worst nightmare, but like... It's neat.
Man, we must live in totally opposite universes. It's "cool" to have your finger scanned (and your minor childrens' as well), so that a crooked company like Disney can use it to abandon, against you and in untoward ways, all only to its advantage?

You must like getting fingerprinted by the cops as well!

Last time I was at Disney was the opening of Calif. Adventure (2001?), and after this recent revelation that Disney's fingerprinting their guests (Oh! They're treating them like criminals), I'm never going back, of course.

Good riddance to bad rubbish. That, and $120 a day gets you the syrupy-sweet Disney brainwashing experience! Now with fingerprinting as an awesome bonus!
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Old 12-10-18, 05:09 PM
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Re: Amusement park: Give us the finger, we won’t tell! (Biometric data lawsuit)

Originally Posted by zyzzle View Post
Man, we must live in totally opposite universes. It's "cool" to have your finger scanned (and your minor childrens' as well), so that a crooked company like Disney can use it to abandon, against you and in untoward ways, all only to its advantage?

You must like getting fingerprinted by the cops as well!

Last time I was at Disney was the opening of Calif. Adventure (2001?), and after this recent revelation that Disney's fingerprinting their guests (Oh! They're treating them like criminals), I'm never going back, of course.

Good riddance to bad rubbish. That, and $120 a day gets you the syrupy-sweet Disney brainwashing experience! Now with fingerprinting as an awesome bonus!
I tend to favor official purposes for finger print data bases over corporations, but I also realized the same data a government would officially use...would more than likely be contracting out to a corporate entity.

We have phone apps that allow your fingerprint to pay for goods and services, right? Barcodes that associate those numbers with you and your physical mailing address, etc. But like you said, the accountability is not there and it needs to be. I don't know how to do it, other than hopefully finding politicians that have parts of their heart caring for their voters. If corporations knew they'd be financially held accountable, they would act more responsible.

Disney, imo, is just horrible all-around. I don't see anything left of the true Disney spirit these days. Mr. Disney would be seriously ashamed.
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Old 12-10-18, 08:27 PM
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Re: Amusement park: Give us the finger, we won’t tell! (Biometric data lawsuit)

Originally Posted by DVD Polizei View Post
I tend to favor official purposes for finger print data bases over corporations, but I also realized the same data a government would officially use...would more than likely be contracting out to a corporate entity.

We have phone apps that allow your fingerprint to pay for goods and services, right? Barcodes that associate those numbers with you and your physical mailing address, etc. But like you said, the accountability is not there and it needs to be. I don't know how to do it, other than hopefully finding politicians that have parts of their heart caring for their voters. If corporations knew they'd be financially held accountable, they would act more responsible.

Disney, imo, is just horrible all-around. I don't see anything left of the true Disney spirit these days. Mr. Disney would be seriously ashamed.
Well, if I use a cell phone at all, I'll use a flip phone (non smart phone), because of things like it needing / storing biometric data (for what purpose, exactly? "security" they claim, but I'm not buying that).

And, yes, Disneyland was wonderful pre-Eisiner in the '70s-early '80s and before they started charging for "all-day admission, unlimited attractions". In short, pre-Eisner Disney was pretty magical (and thankfully still non-PC for Disney!)

The ticket-per-ride system made it a good value, and along with the nominal admission price one could enjoy Disneyland's ambiance "all day" at a more relaxed pace without breaking the wallet.

Oh... I shall remember Disney's nostalgic, halycon days and not settle for the money-grubbing, "plastic manufactured politically correct" experience of today.
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Old 12-11-18, 09:29 AM
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Re: Amusement park: Give us the finger, we won’t tell! (Biometric data lawsuit)

I still enjoy the original Disneyland, but they sure have tried their damnedest to fuck it up over the years. It’s plainly obvious they don’t recognize the value of Walt Disney’s creation.

And all their attempts at duplicate theme parks suck.
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