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Article: "Malady mongers: How drug companies sell treatments by inventing diseases"

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Article: "Malady mongers: How drug companies sell treatments by inventing diseases"

Old 06-09-18, 02:35 AM
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Article: "Malady mongers: How drug companies sell treatments by inventing diseases"

This is all very true:

https://www.yahoo.com/news/malady-mo...100040360.html

I've known about this for years. Scum-bag doctors & pharma companies are making up/exagerrating illnesses & selling people drugs they don't need, which leads to serious financial problems (when people spend more than they can afford for drugs), depression, addiction, and extremely harmful (and at times fatal) side-effects.

If you go to any doctor's office, you'll see those P.O.S. pharma reps. with their suitcases in the waiting room. They're waiting to sell the doctors these drugs, and the doctors then get kick-backs from these pieces of human excrement.

Fuck all of these doctors & the pharma companies. They should all be held accountable for the human misery they're causing. Scum of the fucking earth.

The last time I went to the doctor's office for a regular check-up, everything went well. However, the doctor still tried to prescribe a completely unnecessary & expensive medication for me. I told him I felt fine, and didn't like medication because of side-effects, expense, etc. I then asked him, "How much money do you get from those pharma companies out there (in the waiting room) to prescribe unnecessary, harmful, and overly expensive drugs to people who don't need them?!" The look on that entitled asshole's face was fucking PRICELESS. He was so surprised & enraged that he couldn't reply. Needless to say, I'll never go to that doctor again.

Last edited by TheDude; 06-09-18 at 02:48 AM.
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Old 06-09-18, 06:53 AM
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Re: Article: "Malady mongers: How drug companies sell treatments by inventing disease

I heard this somewhere, don't know if it's accurate. In order for a drug to get approved by the FDA it has to treat a disease recognized by the AMA. When the drug companies come up with a new drug that doesn't target any specifically known disease they lobby the AMA to come up with a disease name that the drug treats.
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Old 06-09-18, 07:26 AM
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Re: Article: "Malady mongers: How drug companies sell treatments by inventing disease

I then asked him, "How much money do you get from those pharma companies out there (in the waiting room) to prescribe unnecessary, harmful, and overly expensive drugs to people who don't need them?!" The look on that entitled asshole's face was fucking PRICELESS. He was so surprised & enraged that he couldn't reply. Needless to say, I'll never go to that doctor again.
The doctor being upset at such an accusatory question is not necessarily a sign of guilt. It is at least as likely he's pissed off at being accused of dishonesty and unethical behavior.
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Old 06-09-18, 08:11 AM
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Re: Article: "Malady mongers: How drug companies sell treatments by inventing disease

If you really what to know, there is a web site that shows how much kick-backs doctors get. I’ll dig out the w b site.

I’d also caution you (anyone) against refusing treatment based on only on how you “feel”. Things like high blood pressure, elevated cholesterol are VERY dangerous yet often have no outward signs.

The examples give are kinda lame. I hear ads for testosterone treatment many times a day a “clinics”. But my Dr has never brought up. Hint, if it’s a celebrity promoting it, then a red flag should go up.

“These steps were seen in campaigns on testosterone deficiency, bipolar disorder and restless leg syndrome.”

Edit....here is the web site where u can look up the perks your Dr gets from drug companies.

https://openpaymentsdata.cms.gov

Last edited by Sdallnct; 06-09-18 at 08:41 AM.
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Old 06-09-18, 08:50 AM
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Re: Article: "Malady mongers: How drug companies sell treatments by inventing disease

Oh to have TGM come in here and open a can of whoopass. You have anger issues, OP. I only have a high school education so I hope you'll accept my diagnosis.
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Old 06-09-18, 08:53 AM
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Re: Article: "Malady mongers: How drug companies sell treatments by inventing disease

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Old 06-09-18, 08:56 AM
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Re: Article: "Malady mongers: How drug companies sell treatments by inventing disease

This thread is not a TOAT or even a TOTY, but it has potential.
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Old 06-09-18, 09:28 AM
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Re: Article: "Malady mongers: How drug companies sell treatments by inventing disease

Originally Posted by Kevin Phillips View Post
The doctor being upset at such an accusatory question is not necessarily a sign of guilt. It is at least as likely he's pissed off at being accused of dishonesty and unethical behavior.
Yeah, that's an incredibly offensive accusation and just plain wrong. If anyone ever did that to me, I would immediately send them a discharge letter to terminated the relationship.

I don't want to start making accusations or diagnoses about another forum member here, but the OP has some well-documented animosity towards the medical field in general and I can't begin to speculate on what happened in his past to make him think and behave this way. I don't think he is at all correct here in his accusations and he will have a hard time getting medical care anywhere with those sort of erroneous preconceptions.

Now, regarding this topic of the relation between doctors and drug reps:

Kickbacks have always been illegal but I'm old enough to remember the "Good Old Days" in the mid-to-late 90s, like when a formula company chartered a boat and took my Residency program on a fishing trip or the time when I lived in HI when a drug company took me my wife and six of my friends out along with bus loads of others to a Chinese restaurant and then the Pro Bowl. At conferences, there were tents from all the companies and they gave out all sorts of swag like engraved luggage tags, calculators, stuffed aninmals, etc. I think surgeons had it way better than we did. If you watch "Love and Other Drugs" it does present that period of time. Looking back, it was probably unethical in its excess. That was a long time ago. The Pharma guidelines put an end to all that in two phases around 2002 & 2005. Now they can't even give us a pen or a package of Post It notes. What they can give us is lunch for the office staff while they detail us on a product (which is fair considering they're asking a physician for thirty minutes of his time during the lunch hour) or sometimes a nice dinner at a restaurant (physicians only, no spouses) when listening to a speaker give an hour-long lecture on the research behind the efficacy and safety of a product. Those are reported to that website so you can see if your doctor ever got lunch while getting detailed. That's it. Sorry to once again burst your bubble.
I rarely get drug reps in my office any more because most of the pediatric products are generic and once they are, you'll never see a rep again. I still let reps in because I want to be aware of new products and my patients could use a free sample of a medication to try before they fill their prescription, and sometimes they leave coupons that can save my patients some money on their copay. Most of the time it's during the day between patients and I don't get ANYTHING but samples and coupons. It takes a little of my time and my patience but I put up with it because it might be of benefit to some of my patients. That's why I put up with the occasional interruptions in my busy day, because maybe it will help someone or save somebody some money.

Last edited by Decker; 06-09-18 at 09:35 AM.
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Old 06-09-18, 10:25 AM
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Re: Article: "Malady mongers: How drug companies sell treatments by inventing disease

Schwartz and Woloshin work to improve communication between doctors and the public by helping both see through the disproportionate fears and hopes created by medical advertising and selective reporting.
So the article doesn't actually tell you to attack your doctor for unethical behaviors for which you have no evidence. It tells you to talk to your doctor and get the straight story about what you've seen in advertisements and online news stories.
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Old 06-09-18, 10:31 AM
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Re: Article: "Malady mongers: How drug companies sell treatments by inventing disease

“Kick-backs” is a real old school term in this context (and as noted, obviously illegal). However there has been more recent “issues” of big pharma “marketing to Doctors”. Pharma reps taking Dr’s out to fancy dinners, sending them to conferences, or even hiring them as “spokespersons”. Just the simple fact that drug companies air commercials to potential end-user customers is a way of marketing to Dr’s. After all, if I see a commercial for Viagra, I can’t just go buy it. I have to “ask my Dr”.

(As an aside, I’m not sure prescription drugs should be allowed to be advertised. I think it a blatant attemp to issue medical advise)

Anyway, here is the John Oliver piece on “marketing to Dr’s”. He comes down much harder on big Pharma than on Doctors.

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Old 06-09-18, 10:38 AM
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Re: Article: "Malady mongers: How drug companies sell treatments by inventing disease

Originally Posted by Decker View Post
Yeah, that's an incredibly offensive accusation and just plain wrong. If anyone ever did that to me, I would immediately send them a discharge letter to terminated the relationship.

I don't want to start making accusations or diagnoses about another forum member here, but the OP has some well-documented animosity towards the medical field in general and I can't begin to speculate on what happened in his past to make him think and behave this way. I don't think he is at all correct here in his accusations and he will have a hard time getting medical care anywhere with those sort of erroneous preconceptions.

Now, regarding this topic of the relation between doctors and drug reps:

Kickbacks have always been illegal but I'm old enough to remember the "Good Old Days" in the mid-to-late 90s, like when a formula company chartered a boat and took my Residency program on a fishing trip or the time when I lived in HI when a drug company took me my wife and six of my friends out along with bus loads of others to a Chinese restaurant and then the Pro Bowl. At conferences, there were tents from all the companies and they gave out all sorts of swag like engraved luggage tags, calculators, stuffed aninmals, etc. I think surgeons had it way better than we did. If you watch "Love and Other Drugs" it does present that period of time. Looking back, it was probably unethical in its excess. That was a long time ago. The Pharma guidelines put an end to all that in two phases around 2002 & 2005. Now they can't even give us a pen or a package of Post It notes. What they can give us is lunch for the office staff while they detail us on a product (which is fair considering they're asking a physician for thirty minutes of his time during the lunch hour) or sometimes a nice dinner at a restaurant (physicians only, no spouses) when listening to a speaker give an hour-long lecture on the research behind the efficacy and safety of a product. Those are reported to that website so you can see if your doctor ever got lunch while getting detailed. That's it. Sorry to once again burst your bubble.
I rarely get drug reps in my office any more because most of the pediatric products are generic and once they are, you'll never see a rep again. I still let reps in because I want to be aware of new products and my patients could use a free sample of a medication to try before they fill their prescription, and sometimes they leave coupons that can save my patients some money on their copay. Most of the time it's during the day between patients and I don't get ANYTHING but samples and coupons. It takes a little of my time and my patience but I put up with it because it might be of benefit to some of my patients. That's why I put up with the occasional interruptions in my busy day, because maybe it will help someone or save somebody some money.
Just an aside, I appreciate the free samples even tho I can afford whatever I need. My only prescription went way up in cost dramatically even with my insurance last Octotober. So I wanted to try something different. She gave me samples to try before filling a perscription. Any mainly thru samples, found one.

Then a few weeks ago when I got a sinus infection, she gave me some samples of something to clear my sinuses as she knew Walgreens didn’t keep on hand what she was prescribing so it might take a couple days (it was cheap and not even covered by insurance but at only $12 was no big deal).

And obviously I agree with you on “confronting” your Dr like that. If you feel you need to ask that question to your Dr, why would you go to that Dr?
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Old 06-09-18, 10:55 AM
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Re: Article: "Malady mongers: How drug companies sell treatments by inventing disease

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Old 06-09-18, 10:58 AM
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Re: Article: "Malady mongers: How drug companies sell treatments by inventing disease

Originally Posted by Vibiana View Post
Oh to have TGM come in here and open a can of whoopass. You have anger issues, OP. I only have a high school education so I hope you'll accept my diagnosis.
TGM will just come in here, diagnose his Internet rage, and then prescribe him something for it.
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Old 06-09-18, 11:02 AM
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Re: Article: "Malady mongers: How drug companies sell treatments by inventing disease

Originally Posted by Sdallnct View Post

(As an aside, I’m not sure prescription drugs should be allowed to be advertised. I think it a blatant attemp to issue medical advise)
They used to banned from tv. Curious what the correlation between lifting the ban and rise in inventing disease.
Lawyers used to be banned also. Number of lawsuits filed probably skyrocketed.
Hard liquor ads were also banned. I've only noticed them on cable channels. Wonder if FCC still prohibits them on broadcast, it's voluntary by networks, or they're on and I just never catch them.
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Old 06-09-18, 11:20 AM
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Re: Article: "Malady mongers: How drug companies sell treatments by inventing disease

OP is actually Martin Schkreli.

Nice try you trickster.
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Old 06-09-18, 05:19 PM
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Re: Article: "Malady mongers: How drug companies sell treatments by inventing disease

Originally Posted by rw2516 View Post
They used to banned from tv. Curious what the correlation between lifting the ban and rise in inventing disease.
Lawyers used to be banned also. Number of lawsuits filed probably skyrocketed.
Hard liquor ads were also banned. I've only noticed them on cable channels. Wonder if FCC still prohibits them on broadcast, it's voluntary by networks, or they're on and I just never catch them.
The advertising madness (which, is blatantly unnecessary) is one reason why the cost of drugs has gone up around 10x in recent years. It seems like drug companies don't want to bother if they can't charge at least a buck a pill. It's like $1 is their new minimum (cash price, of course). Cheap drugs which used to be around 10 cents a pill / tablet 10 years ago are suddenly up to > $1 per tablet. I'm talking about generics even. Those compaines are truly getting fat at the expense of weaning people / habituating them.

So, the credence given to Decker's point about kickbacks is true. I think those kickbacks must have been an incredibly small part of their overall budget back in "the good old days." This small expense saved now, has been magnified 10-20x in ridiculously blatant and wasteful advertising costs.

This all boils down to yet another reason health care is so out of control in the US. The middle class are being bled dry, or will be soon. The "poor" and the rich are the benefactors, and are the ones to whom the cost of healthcare and drugs "doesn't matter."
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Old 06-09-18, 06:49 PM
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Re: Article: "Malady mongers: How drug companies sell treatments by inventing disease

I knew this post would bring doctors and/or pharma reps. out of the fucking woodwork

Originally Posted by Decker View Post
Yeah, that's an incredibly offensive accusation and just plain wrong. If anyone ever did that to me, I would immediately send them a discharge letter to terminated the relationship.
Good for you! Do you want a cookie?! If a patient justifiably questions your credibility do you think they'll care if you send them a termination letter?! Are you a 5-year old that goes crying to Mommy every time someone questions you?!

And, he didn't send me a termination letter, because I beat him to it - I went out into the waiting room & told his office I was never going to come back to them & for them to NEVER contact me again. Fucking parasites.

Originally Posted by Decker View Post
I rarely get drug reps in my office any more because most of the pediatric products are generic and once they are, you'll never see a rep again. I still let reps in because I want to be aware of new products and my patients could use a free sample of a medication to try before they fill their prescription, and sometimes they leave coupons that can save my patients some money on their copay. Most of the time it's during the day between patients and I don't get ANYTHING but samples and coupons. It takes a little of my time and my patience but I put up with it because it might be of benefit to some of my patients. That's why I put up with the occasional interruptions in my busy day, because maybe it will help someone or save somebody some money.
Nice stories, and great justification here! You're just trying to justify your job. Completely understandable, and nice try!

I'm not surprised that you're denying that doctors prescribe and over-prescribe unnecessary medications for people when there's nothing wrong with them. However, it's obvious that this is definitely occurring. I have specifically had doctors try to pull this bullshit on me, and I know for a fact it's happening to others as well. If it's not happening, how do people legally get hooked on so many unnecessary drugs?! Because their fucking doctors prescribed these unnecessary drugs - that's why.

https://articles.mercola.com/sites/a...ing-drugs.aspx

http://www.apa.org/monitor/2012/06/prescribing.aspx

Anyone that denies this type of thing is happening is delusional & a fucking liar.

On a similar note, I'm also aware of a local case where a woman went into surgery for a routine procedure, and ended up having to have her leg amputated because of an incompetent surgeon!

And, there are plenty of other examples of doctor incompetence as well:

https://www.daytondailynews.com/news...LWt1q04JTiFVL/

Last edited by TheDude; 06-09-18 at 07:23 PM.
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Old 06-09-18, 06:56 PM
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Re: Article: "Malady mongers: How drug companies sell treatments by inventing disease

OP, what are your thoughts on vaccinations?
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Old 06-09-18, 07:15 PM
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Re: Article: "Malady mongers: How drug companies sell treatments by inventing disease

It's like dieinafire has been reincarnated.
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Old 06-09-18, 08:05 PM
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Re: Article: "Malady mongers: How drug companies sell treatments by inventing disease

Trying too hard for thread of the year.

You’re showboating big time. Just quietly switch to another doctor.
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Old 06-09-18, 09:46 PM
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Re: Article: "Malady mongers: How drug companies sell treatments by inventing disease

You mean my Restless Leg Syndrome might not be real?
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Old 06-09-18, 10:04 PM
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Re: Article: "Malady mongers: How drug companies sell treatments by inventing disease

Originally Posted by Josh-da-man View Post
You mean my Restless Leg Syndrome might not be real?
SSG Honeylamb has that, at least she did. Her current partner may have cured it.
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Old 06-09-18, 10:41 PM
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Re: Article: "Malady mongers: How drug companies sell treatments by inventing disease

Originally Posted by TheDude View Post
Are you a 5-year old that goes crying to Mommy every time someone questions you?!
You sure love crying on ths forum about every broad social problem that exists solely to destroy your life.

Originally Posted by TheDude View Post
And, he didn't send me a termination letter, because I beat him to it - I went out into the waiting room & told his office I was never going to come back to them & for them to NEVER contact me again. Fucking parasites.
If the pharma rep was in the waiting room when you got there, why not just turn around and leave? Why did you still see the doctor? I guess you needed to tell him off so you could later brag to strangers about it.

Originally Posted by TheDude View Post
Nice stories, and great justification here! You're just trying to justify your job. Completely understandable, and nice try!
What do you do for a living? Doesn't matter. Your job serves no purpose.

Originally Posted by TheDude View Post
On a similar note, I'm also aware of a local case where a woman went into surgery for a routine procedure, and ended up having to have her leg amputated because of an incompetent surgeon!
There are crappy people in EVERY profession. If you ever need surgery, maybe your next door neighbor can help out instead.
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Old 06-09-18, 10:42 PM
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Re: Article: "Malady mongers: How drug companies sell treatments by inventing disease

What is the “justifiable” reason to question your doctors prescriptions? Because you “feel good”. There is no justification to be a dick. I’ve questioned my Dr before, but somehow I manage to do it without being a dick.

I thank my Dr every day that despite me feeling good, I took his advise and took those the medication he suggested AND improved my health. Again, based on his suggestions.

But hey, you do you!
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Old 06-09-18, 11:05 PM
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Re: Article: "Malady mongers: How drug companies sell treatments by inventing disease

Originally Posted by TheDude View Post

And, he didn't send me a termination letter, because I beat him to it - I went out into the waiting room & told his office I was never going to come back to them & for them to NEVER contact me again. Fucking parasites.
Trust me, your termination letter is coming. There needs to be a paper trail to separate the unstable hostile patient from the physician so that when you get sicker they can demonstrate that you've been fired and they are under no further obligation to treat you just in case you changed your mind.

Nice stories, and great justification here! You're just trying to justify your job. Completely understandable, and nice try!

I'm not surprised that you're denying that doctors prescribe and over-prescribe unnecessary medications for people when there's nothing wrong with them. However, it's obvious that this is definitely occurring. I have specifically had doctors try to pull this bullshit on me, and I know for a fact it's happening to others as well. If it's not happening, how do people legally get hooked on so many unnecessary drugs?! Because their fucking doctors prescribed these unnecessary drugs - that's why.
I literally never even addressed the issue in that article at all. Sure medications are WAY overprescribed all the time by far too many doctors, I'd guess. I have made it my mission in life to not be a part of it. I will NEVER prescribe antibiotics unless I can see or hear signs of a bacterial infection. I've probably upset or disappointed many patients over the years because I won't write for antibiotics for a simple cough or cold that I suspect is viral. And I NEVER write for ADHD medications without objectively scored data from both the teacher and the parents. I think those medications, while useful for the right patients, are way over-prescribed. As far as the made-up ailments referenced in the article, I can't really comment since none of that stuff is related to kids. I'm sure there is some degree of truth in that.

I just had to respond to your initial allegation that a doctor must be getting a kickback because you saw a drug rep in his office. Nothing could be further from the truth and it's so insulting that you would say that to a professional. Lawyers get kickbacks all the time for referrals, it's part of their business model but it's illegal in medicine. You accused a physician of not only being unethical but of being a criminal based on the fact that there was a drug rep in the office (which is totally appropriate, BTW)? It's like asking a Black physician if he only got into medical school because of affirmative action and taking his furious response as proof that you were right. What the hell is wrong with you?

And, FYI, a parasite doesn't wait until you go into his or her office seeking help and treatment.
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