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Old 08-08-17, 11:21 AM   #26
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Re: Girls' Softball Team Booted From World Series for Bird Flipping

Ban sports.
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Old 08-08-17, 06:35 PM   #27
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Re: Girls' Softball Team Booted From World Series for Bird Flipping

I didn't realize stealing signs was against the rules.
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Old 08-09-17, 03:21 PM   #28
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Re: Girls' Softball Team Booted From World Series for Bird Flipping

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Originally Posted by Mabuse View Post
I didn't realize stealing signs was against the rules.
It is, but it's not considered as bad as throwing signs, apparently.

As for stealing signs, I often see them sold at flea mkts.

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Old 08-09-17, 10:29 PM   #29
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Re: Girls' Softball Team Booted From World Series for Bird Flipping

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Originally Posted by Troy Stiffler View Post
If you coached Creek, maybe you know... My sister used to play (in very-rural PA). All I remember is how awful the parents are at those things. It's like tourettes with those people. Some of those sports parents are out of their minds.

Looking back, I feel bad for the kids who have to be raised by parents like that.

In that sense, the middle finger seems very tame.
As a former coach, former program administrator, sports parent, and current umpire ... most parents are ok. But the ones that are bad are beyond freaking insane.

In 6 years of umpiring I had never been on a crew where we had to eject anybody from a game until this year: four parents and two coaches in about a 3 week span. Many, many additional warnings were issued this year. Other umpires had commented this year was one of the worst for adults' behavior.

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Originally Posted by Mabuse View Post
I didn't realize stealing signs was against the rules.
It is not. Though it generally gets a batter hit it the head (I am not condoning that). Disclaimer: I am not certified in Little League. I work several other organizations and there is no rule about stealing signs in any of those books. That said ... one could broadly interpret it as unsportsmanlike and apply rules pertinent to that. The penalty is generally an order to cease the offending behavior. Refusing to follow that order could result in ejection.

Semi-related story -- most organizations have a rule about wearing your uniform properly. This year a local umpire ordered a player to tuck in his/her jersey in compliance with that rule. The player refused and was ejected for failing to follow the umpire's command. Extremely excessive, but applicable by rule.

I haven't had time to read up on this beyond the article posted in this thread. Any good links?
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Old 08-10-17, 09:27 AM   #30
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Re: Girls' Softball Team Booted From World Series for Bird Flipping

The article said coaches were ejected for stealing signs. So I don't think it was batters stealing from catchers. It must have been coaches stealing.
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Old 08-10-17, 10:12 AM   #31
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Re: Girls' Softball Team Booted From World Series for Bird Flipping

tangent

I've never understood why stealing signs is bad / banned / offensive. If you are choosing to communicate using an open method that can be intercepted by others, then it should be up to you to come up with a scheme that can't be understood by anyone who doesn't know your system. If the opponent cracks your code, then it's your own damn fault, not theirs.

If you're playing football and the QB yells to his WR, "hey Dez, run a post pattern!", you'd be an idiot to not adjust your defense accordingly. If that same QB yells "88 Blue 72", and you know that every time in the past that means "Dez runs a post pattern", you'd be stupid to not think Dez was gonna run a post pattern. Likewise, if a catcher holds down 1 finger and a fastball always follows, then when you see 1 finger, it's probably gonna be a fastball.

Players don't *have* to communicate to each other to play ball. They *choose* to. And they do so openly, with signs or words or body language, in an attempt to disguise their meaning so that the opponents aren't clued-in. But if the opponents figure it out.... well... good for them. They're using the information *you* are giving them to their advantage. If you don't like it, change what you're doing.

/tangent
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Old 08-10-17, 10:16 AM   #32
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Re: Girls' Softball Team Booted From World Series for Bird Flipping

Agreed.
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Old 08-10-17, 10:43 AM   #33
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Re: Girls' Softball Team Booted From World Series for Bird Flipping

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Originally Posted by Abob Teff View Post
As a former coach, former program administrator, sports parent, and current umpire ... most parents are ok. But the ones that are bad are beyond freaking insane.
Yup'. There were always, maybe, 15-20 people watching their kids. And 2-3 of them would go crazy. That was probably my earliest exposure to people screaming obscenities like they're on the set of Deadwood ('you fucking cocksucking piece of fucking shit' ... that kind of thing).

Looking back, I don't know why my mom even took me with. I think she wanted me to get out of the house, and maybe learn to enjoy sports (which I never have ... even 25 years later). I'd just sit there, bored out of my mind, and stressed out by those screaming parents.
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Old 08-10-17, 11:06 AM   #34
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Re: Girls' Softball Team Booted From World Series for Bird Flipping

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Originally Posted by Mabuse View Post
I coach youth sports. The first thing we tell the kids is, "You represent yourself, your family, your school, and your community. Your behavior must be of the highest standard."

Furthermore, the girls won the game. Being a sore winner is probably the worst thing you can do.

I'd personally bench my kid even if the sanctioning body did nothing.

Lastly, proper behavior on social media needs to be taught and enforced. Each of those girls probably has a statistically greater possibility of making further asses of themselves online in a manner that could cause even greater distress in their lives.


Hopefully they'll learn something from this. Some lessons need to be learned the hard way.
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Old 08-10-17, 11:35 AM   #35
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Re: Girls' Softball Team Booted From World Series for Bird Flipping

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Originally Posted by kenbuzz View Post
tangent

I've never understood why stealing signs is bad / banned / offensive. If you are choosing to communicate using an open method that can be intercepted by others, then it should be up to you to come up with a scheme that can't be understood by anyone who doesn't know your system. If the opponent cracks your code, then it's your own damn fault, not theirs.

If you're playing football and the QB yells to his WR, "hey Dez, run a post pattern!", you'd be an idiot to not adjust your defense accordingly. If that same QB yells "88 Blue 72", and you know that every time in the past that means "Dez runs a post pattern", you'd be stupid to not think Dez was gonna run a post pattern. Likewise, if a catcher holds down 1 finger and a fastball always follows, then when you see 1 finger, it's probably gonna be a fastball.

Players don't *have* to communicate to each other to play ball. They *choose* to. And they do so openly, with signs or words or body language, in an attempt to disguise their meaning so that the opponents aren't clued-in. But if the opponents figure it out.... well... good for them. They're using the information *you* are giving them to their advantage. If you don't like it, change what you're doing.

/tangent
I generally agree, but perhaps it's different with this particular aspect of baseball. I could be wrong, but catchers and pitchers signals are absolutely necessary, right? Complex signals that you need to change every inning would needlessly slow down the game, and cause a lot more passed balls.
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Old 08-10-17, 12:49 PM   #36
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Re: Girls' Softball Team Booted From World Series for Bird Flipping

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Originally Posted by AGuyNamedMike View Post
Born and raised not one hour distant from Mechanicsville, sport. Left for college, returned, left for the Army, and been back to visit family (several of whom live in Mechanicsville) many times over the years.

But you seem to know I'm from Alaska and didn't merely move here nine years ago. So you tell me, who killed Kennedy and where is Hoffa buried?

So bad mouthing everyone in Mech is the way to go. Nice job way to represent where you born and raised. Oh excuse me an hour away from Mech, got it.

I have lived here my entire life except for 4 years of college and 4 years of living in the west end of Richmond. I live in Mechanicsville, my kids go to school in Hanover (not Atlee) and I can tell you that your comments are BS.

If the actions of a few indicates the "typical behavior for (insert any town/city/state), kids and adults" then our world is truly gone straight to hell. Make all the comments you want about the improper behavior of these the young ladies and what may very well be poor upbringing by their parents but do not put everyone in this town in the same boat.

For what it matters I do not condone the actions of these young ladies nor do I agree with the punishment the team received. If the offending girls were suspended and it left the team with too few players to play the game thus causing the forfeit I can understand. Frankly this whole thing has sucked and blown way out proportion but that is the world we live in today and kids and parents both have to do better.



Quote:
Originally Posted by AGuyNamedMike View Post
In defense of GCS (who might have a connection to Mechanicsville too), I did make a sweeping negative generalization.

My apologies, man.

At least the girls weren't from somewhere in Henrico County. They might have skipped the birds and gone straight to shooting somebody.

***EDIT - Just saw your additional post and I should have read a little further (oops ). My apologies. A little embarrassed but I will leave my comments up as I wrote them and should stand by them.



Depending on the area of Henrico County or City of Richmond I hate to say it but the above statement is true. While we do not have areas of major gangs, crime etc we do have plenty of bad areas and bad people. Richmond has a fairly high murder rate (top 20) as well unfortunately which doesn't exactly help its image. Not exactly a trait that people want for their area.

Last edited by GCS; 08-10-17 at 12:57 PM.
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Old 08-10-17, 03:26 PM   #37
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Re: Girls' Softball Team Booted From World Series for Bird Flipping

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Old 08-10-17, 05:54 PM   #38
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Re: Girls' Softball Team Booted From World Series for Bird Flipping

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Originally Posted by Mabuse View Post
The article said coaches were ejected for stealing signs. So I don't think it was batters stealing from catchers. It must have been coaches stealing.
Time machine flashback ... old baseball catcher me would say: Doesn't matter -- You can't hit a coach with a pitch. The next batter gets one in the ear.

Return to today ... doesn't matter who does it. There is no rule against it unless the umpire wants to interpret it as unsportsmanlike. Personally, I wouldn't interpret it that way.

We've talked about parents a bit here, let me digress and go off on coaches for a moment ... (overgeneralization here, so I'll apologize now) ... coaches are the worst of the asshole parents.

First, learn the rules if you are going to coach. I don't mind a coach coming out to discuss a bang-bang or oddball play. Do NOT scream across the field because you don't have a clue as to what just happened.

Second, your job is to teach the game to kids so they can play. It is NOT to bark out commands on every play as it happens. It is NOT to try to cheat your way to any advantage you can find for your team.

Third, learn the damn rules. Infield fly. DP/Flex. Obstruction and interference. Simple things like line ups, drop third strike, foul tip vs. foul ball. If you don't know, ask - don't argue.
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