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Car Buying Scam or Legal? Need Advice For A Friend

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Car Buying Scam or Legal? Need Advice For A Friend

Old 08-15-16, 12:58 PM
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Car Buying Scam or Legal? Need Advice For A Friend

Okay, so first things first, I didn't buy another car. My cars are paid off and I'm not looking for any of the hassle or one of a kind experience that only nickdawgy can get at the dealer.

That being said, a friend of mine contacted me for advice on a situation. Now, said friend isn't too bright, maybe that's why it seems this dealer is trying to take advantage of her. Anyhow, you decide. Here's the rundown:

She goes to the dealer last Sunday. I think it was a Hyundai dealer and bought a new car (2017 Elantra). At this point, I don't care if you think Hyundai's are shit, just read the whole post.

She had an older model Hyundai to trade in, a 2012 or 2013 model. She received a letter in the mail saying they need her type of vehicle, there's a shortage. I told her this is just a trick to get you into the dealership, but she was entertaining getting a new car anyway.

So she's at the dealer, shows them her car, gives them the okay to run credit and all that jazz. She decides on the Elantra. The salesman comes back with a lowball figure that was $2,500 less than the amount they quoted on the paper she got in the mail. Keep in mind, it did say "up to" so they covered their asses. But the car was in immaculate condition, and had less than 20k miles on it. So there was no logical reason to lowball her like that.

I think she was with her boyfriend, who honestly isn't much smarter than her when it comes to these things. But from what I heard is they went back and forth. She didn't want to put anything down and wanted a lower monthly payment. They wanted two grand down, and the payments were at least $60 higher than what she was currently paying. Then they raised the value of the trade in by $500, then a thousand. After all was said and done, I guess she settled on a trade in value that paid off the old car plus put a couple thousand towards the new one. 1k down, and monthly payments equal to what she was paying before and an interest rate that was two percent lower than her previous loan.

So she was happy with it. I saw the car, it was nice, fully loaded, and all that. She told me that they didn't try and force GAP on her, or an extended warranty. The car didn't have any BS dealer added crap like sealant or VIN etching. It seemed like a win.

There was only one issue. When they presented the car before she signed the paperwork, there was severe water spots on the hood. I mean it was bad. The water out here is hard and can really leave deposits if you're not careful. This almost looked like they washed the car and then let it sit n the sun to dry. The salesman noticed it, told the finance manager, and they put it on the due bill that they'd cover it. They would contact her the next day to schedule an appointment.

The next day comes and goes with no call. So she calls and the first appointment available is a week later. So she takes it. Fast forward to the day of the service. She goes in, and they not only refuse to do the service, they state that there was a problem with financing and they want to rewrite the contract, adding 2% and $20 a month to her payments. They even had the new contract all printed out and ready to sign. She refused of course, and that's where we stand as of now. She's asking me to go with her to talk to them.

I was in a similar sitiation with my old Honda. I remember telling the guy to take the car back, I wasn't resigning anything. He comes back and tells me he had good news, he was able to convince the bank to accept my rate.

I know this is typically called a spot delivery scam, and technically it's legal, but I wanted to see what you guys thought.
Old 08-15-16, 01:13 PM
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Re: Car Buying Scam or Legal? Need Advice For A Friend

Tell her to stand her ground. Dealers do this all the time because they know people want that shiny new toy. Tell the dealer he can fucking take the car back and give her back the trade in. I bet they back down then.
Old 08-15-16, 01:51 PM
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Re: Car Buying Scam or Legal? Need Advice For A Friend

yep, scam (unless her credit really sucks), you should have the option to find your own financing or pay .25 per mile or whatever their rate is per mile that you drive it and give the car back. Opt for either of those and/or pressure them to stick with the original loan. Your Friend (wink) just needs to stand tough

Check a credit union for a loan if possible and just escape the thieving dealer.

I know someone that ended up giving a car back after a weekend of driving, as it turned out, NO ONE would finance her on the car
Old 08-15-16, 02:07 PM
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Re: Car Buying Scam or Legal? Need Advice For A Friend

to Vibiana's advice. I would add in contacting the local Attorney General/State's Attorney's office and the Better Business Bureau before she even talks to the dealer again. Not that either one will probably do anything for her, but she has that in her back pocket and can use it as leverage to enforce the original contract.

Main thing ... Do not stand for it and do not be quiet about it.

Many years ago we had a dealer pull a bunch of crap on us. Long story short, we went to one of those tent sales where a dealer brings all of their brands together and bought a vehicle I wasn't happy with (wife, emotional purchase, yadda yadda).

After a couple of days the bank (not ours) called us and asked if we had been in to sign the "missing page" of the corrected paperwork so they could send the dealer the check. I asked what "corrected" paperwork and the bank agent tried to play it off. I pressed her on the issue and found out the dealer had supposedly done the original paperwork on the wrong dealership's paperwork (e.g., sold a Dodge on the Nissan business's paperwork) AND had submitted corrected paperwork with my signature on it. Conveniently it also changed the terms and raised the interest rate an extra 4%.

I advised her I had not signed anything and the transaction would not be occurring so they should not send any check. We drove the van to the dealership (who was closed), took our plates off of it, and dropped the keys in the drop box. The next morning I called the business manager (not sales) and advised her of what had happened. I told her I would be by that afternoon to pick up our trade-in and a check for our down payment; if they weren't ready when I arrived I would be calling the State's Attorney's consumer protection division back (I hadn't called them yet, but it sounded good).

When I got there they said they didn't put up any fuss except they had (supposedly) already sold our trade-in. They had a check ready for the down payment + trade-in value. I already had another purchase lined up at another dealer, so I accepted it. Looking back, I should have pushed for more money since they made money on the trade-in.

Sorry, short story got long ... Anyway, in talking to other people about this dealership I found out they pull stunts like this routinely (altering or forging paperwork). Had I known that before, I never would have gone there to start with. To this day I advise people in the Springfield area "do not buy a car from a dealership with a color in its name".
Old 08-15-16, 02:10 PM
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Re: Car Buying Scam or Legal? Need Advice For A Friend

4KRG - I know somebody that happened to as well. The dealer told her it was a done deal and sent the car with her; then they called her back on Monday and told her to return it.

Two lessons, I guess: don't buy a car on the weekend and/OR don't finance a car. I prefer the latter and will never do so again.
Old 08-15-16, 02:15 PM
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Re: Car Buying Scam or Legal? Need Advice For A Friend

Never finance a car through the dealership. Always have the financing from an outside bank/credit ready.
Old 08-15-16, 02:33 PM
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Re: Car Buying Scam or Legal? Need Advice For A Friend

This is going to end very badly.
Old 08-15-16, 02:38 PM
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Re: Car Buying Scam or Legal? Need Advice For A Friend

I bought a car earlier this year, and an attempt at bait and switch was what I got, too. The guy who sold me my previous car quoted a price by email to move from a 2015 Corolla to a 2016 Camry. When I got there, they wanted $2500 more. I was going to walk, and they kept coming back with new offers, till it was what he'd told me in the email.

Interestingly, the price of the car never changed. It was the trade in they kept adjusting. They ended up giving me $15K for a car I'd bought for $16k the previous year--I thought a thousand bucks for a year of use was more than generous (to me, it was the price of the Camry that was too high). My car was pristine, not a scratch on it. No financing involved, so at least they couldn't try to get me there.
Old 08-16-16, 12:02 AM
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Re: Car Buying Scam or Legal? Need Advice For A Friend

Originally Posted by dan30oly View Post
This is going to end very badly.
Depends on your perspective.
Old 08-16-16, 12:23 AM
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Re: Car Buying Scam or Legal? Need Advice For A Friend

She'll probably be better off if they do take the car back and she gets her car back. She gave them too many ways to screw her by focusing on the monthly payment. Did she look at the loan term? Did they even discuss the price of the car she bought? Seemed like she was only focused on the trade in and monthly payment. Should have had her own financing lined up outside of the dealer before going in.
Old 08-16-16, 12:59 AM
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Re: Car Buying Scam or Legal? Need Advice For A Friend

Oh god I missed you so much NickDawgy.

and ... scam
Old 08-16-16, 06:26 AM
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Re: Car Buying Scam or Legal? Need Advice For A Friend

Almost all dealers are scams by definition.

However, I'm even more worried she traded in a 2012-2013 fairly inexpensive car that she still owed money on. Please tell me she only financed the new car for 3 years or less (considering a trade and a down payment).

Long term loans on low value cars that depreciate quickly and "churning" (to borrow a term from the financial world) is as bad if not wrorse than bait and switch or charging a little more for a car than advertised.
Old 08-17-16, 04:12 PM
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Re: Car Buying Scam or Legal? Need Advice For A Friend

Okay, sorry about the late reply. It's been a hectic week at work and home.

Anyhow:

I went to the dealer with her like I promised, and I tried my best to act like someone that was just there to keep her company. But that all flew out the door within a few minutes of entering. Here's a brief snippet of the conversation between her (Audry), the sales manager (Todd), and myself:

Audry: I'm looking for Todd, we talked earlier.

Random salesman: No problem, let me get him.

Todd: *walks out with a huge grin on his face like he just hit the jackpot* Audry! Hi again. So are we ready to sign the new paperwork?!?

nickdawgy: She's not signing anything.

T: *confused look on his face* But why not?

ND: Because it would result in her paying more money to you, and it's not necessary.

T: Well if she doesn't sign, we have to take the car back.

ND: Here, let me give you the keys.

T: *turns to Audry as if I'm not even there* We don't want to take the car back. I tell you what, talk to Bob, he's the GM here, and he did your deal. He can help. He's a great guy.

A: Okay, we can talk to him.

T: Great, he'll be in on Wednesday.

ND: Why can't we talk to someone else. I know there's others that can help us.

T: We just need this to get signed then we can talk.

ND: I'm aware of the spot delivery scam and yo-yo financing. I'm here to make sure this doesn't happen.

T: Okay, you're accusing me of doing something here. I'm trying to help you. I tell you what, why don't you guys have a seat, and I'll be right with you.

So we go and sit down. Todd comes back literally 45 seconds later with a business card.

T: I just got off the phone with Bob, and he can't wait to talk to you.

ND: We want to talk to someone else.

T: I'm trying to get this resolved.

ND: There's nothing to resolve, she isn't signing.

T: Okay, you are being belligerent. I'm not talking to you anymore. Have you heard of the privacy act? I cannot talk to anyone but Audry. This conversation is over. I am terminating it.

He then walks away and I follow. He then closes the door to his office in my face. He also threatened to call the police. I told him he could use my phone. He backed off.

So we went to the service department, and they refused to do service until the problem was resolved. Then we went over his head and went across the street (they have offices on both sides of the street here) to see a different finance guy (besides Bob) and within five minutes, this new guy (Jack) was telling us he "went to bat for us" and told the bank you're not signing. "Everything is cool" he said.

I'm considering talking to the corporate office and/or giving them a bad review on Yelp. If anything it made me glad I won't have to buy a new car anytime soon.

Thoughts?
Old 08-17-16, 04:18 PM
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Re: Car Buying Scam or Legal? Need Advice For A Friend

Corporate Office and Yelp won't do anything. Contact the local news or whatever state department would oversee this. Send a complaint by mail.
Old 08-17-16, 05:15 PM
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Re: Car Buying Scam or Legal? Need Advice For A Friend

Originally Posted by PhantomStranger View Post
Never finance a car through the dealership. Always have the financing from an outside bank/credit ready.
If you take nothing else from this thread, this is essential.
Old 08-17-16, 08:15 PM
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Re: Car Buying Scam or Legal? Need Advice For A Friend

Originally Posted by PhantomStranger View Post
Never finance a car through the dealership. Always have the financing from an outside bank/credit ready.
After agreeing on an otd price I just tell them I will pay cash... They will try to persuade you to finance... Last time I got them to give me 0.9% on a used car. No "issues" with the paperwork arose afterwards.

I also didn't do a trade in to keep things simple.
Old 08-17-16, 08:37 PM
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Re: Car Buying Scam or Legal? Need Advice For A Friend

Originally Posted by AGuyNamedMike View Post
If you take nothing else from this thread, this is essential.
I have had zero issues financing through dealerships. You can often get rebates that way and then refi through a credit union or bank later to get a better rate.
Old 08-17-16, 08:47 PM
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Re: Car Buying Scam or Legal? Need Advice For A Friend

IMO, there's no problem financing through the dealership if you get a good enough deal, but you shouldn't walk through the door without another option.
Old 08-17-16, 09:02 PM
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Re: Car Buying Scam or Legal? Need Advice For A Friend

Originally Posted by nickdawgy View Post
Thoughts?
Here are some resources that might help you. Places you can go to file a complaint, or threaten the dealer with filing a complaint:

http://www.dca.ca.gov/publications/c...r_rights.shtml
https://www.dmv.ca.gov/portal/dmv/?1.../invest/inv172
http://www.nmvb.ca.gov/consumer_prog..._overview.html
Old 08-18-16, 09:19 AM
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Re: Car Buying Scam or Legal? Need Advice For A Friend

As usual some odd advice. Sure, have financing ready from outside source, but often dealers can get it lower. Same with the whole "monthly payments thing"...You can always buy on monthly terms. If the car is $100 for 36 months = $3600. As long as you know the numbers anyway they want to sell it to you is fine. I sold cars and the two biggest ways they scam you is, you not understanding the math, or adding crap into the final finance document. If you buy a $30,000 with $3000 down = $27,000 so understand what $27,000 is in financing at whatever rate you have from your outside source for the number of years you want.
Old 08-18-16, 01:28 PM
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Re: Car Buying Scam or Legal? Need Advice For A Friend

"You can often get rebates that way and then refi through a credit union or bank later to get a better rate."

Good point, you can put in a little more effort and game the situation for maximum benefit.



"often dealers can get it lower"

Sure, but if you don't have those numbers from your own bank ready the dealer has no reason to do so. I say come prepared.
Old 08-20-16, 05:57 PM
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Re: Car Buying Scam or Legal? Need Advice For A Friend

So she showed me a letter she got today certified mail from the dealer. It basically says they regret it but they can't find someone to finance it and to return the car. I find that hard to believe because she was paying for her old car for three years and never missed a payment. Her credit score is 675 (I saw the FICO).

I told her I'd go with her tomorrow or Monday to talk to them. I suspect they will try and get her to sign for a higher rate one more time and then back off. The car is technically used now, right? They don't want it back, do they?

In any case I told her if they want it back, make sure they have cash in hand and her old car right up front. No delays.

Thoughts?

My take on it is they aren't making enough on it. I remember my old Honda deal for the infamous 20%. I had shit credit but I still got a car. I got raped for it but I didn't have to return it. I'm sure if she had signed at the higher rate they'd have magically found a financer.

Last edited by nickdawgy; 08-20-16 at 06:02 PM.
Old 08-20-16, 06:24 PM
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Re: Car Buying Scam or Legal? Need Advice For A Friend

Call their bluff. They need her money more than she needs their car.
Old 08-20-16, 06:55 PM
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Re: Car Buying Scam or Legal? Need Advice For A Friend

You could go on Sunday afternoon when they're busiest, and then start shouting angrily in the showroom about the dealership breaking the contract.
You could bring a friend with a video camera. Start by clearly announcing your names and the date. Ask the finance guy to state his full name and job title.
You could tell the finance guy earnestly, "You're the one who screwed up. I don't see why she should have to pay for it. This is the second week you've ruined by telling her to come back here." You expect something extra back for jerking her around.


Disclaimer: I've never bought a new car and I don't know anything about contract law.
Old 08-20-16, 06:57 PM
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Re: Car Buying Scam or Legal? Need Advice For A Friend

Originally Posted by nickdawgy View Post
My take on it is they aren't making enough on it.
Is it a big dealership? If so, I doubt this is a problem. They'd probably eat a loss before they upset a customer like this.

I went through this when I bought my first car (back in high school). They let me keep the car for a week, and I showed it to my friends. It was my first car and made me feel like a million bucks. Just to be embarrassed when they couldn't get me a loan and I had to take it back. When I purchased, they didn't give me the slightest hint that the deal hadn't gone through. I did take it back with an empty tank and 400 miles on the odometer.

Back then (2001) high interest risky auto loans must not have been a thing. Because they didn't have any ideas on how to get me approved. Nowadays they'd probably give it to me for 29% with the assumption they'll repo it six months later.

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