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View Poll Results: Should plastic straws be eliminated?
Yes
32
31.68%
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54
53.47%
I like turtles
10
9.90%
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Voters: 101. You may not vote on this poll

Should plastic straws be eliminated?

Old 07-18-18, 10:36 AM
  #101  
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Re: Should plastic straws be eliminated?

Originally Posted by Chrisedge View Post
However the straws are not recyclable but the new lids will be. (Supposedly)
And I don't think the new lids are going to get stuck up any sea turtles' noses.
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Old 07-18-18, 10:53 AM
  #102  
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Re: Should plastic straws be eliminated?

The only place I've regularly used paper straws is Sea World (don't judge me!) and man they're terrible, plus they get all soggy. But I really only need them for the kids.

So the reason straws are hated is because they do more damage to sea creatures, rather than just an aversion to using plastic in general?
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Old 07-18-18, 11:49 AM
  #103  
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Re: Should plastic straws be eliminated?

Originally Posted by fujishig View Post
The only place I've regularly used paper straws is Sea World (don't judge me!) and man they're terrible, plus they get all soggy. But I really only need them for the kids.

So the reason straws are hated is because they do more damage to sea creatures, rather than just an aversion to using plastic in general?
I hate paper straws.

Yeah straws aren't the answer to really solving anything. I mean in the US we only are responsible for 1% of the plastic in the oceans and of that only .02 - .03% of that are straws. But it's always good to be better stewards to our environment and they use straws as a gateway plastic to eventually ban other plastics and hope to make a more considerable impact. Plus, yeah, they found a turtle with a straw embedded in its face and jumped to the natural conclusion that that's happening everywhere - to get everyone on board with the banning of plastic straws (almost as ridiculous as the "500 million straws per day" used in the USA estimate which has been completely debunked and it's not even close to the real estimate but it continues to be used to scare people into agreeing to change.)
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Old 07-18-18, 12:19 PM
  #104  
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Re: Should plastic straws be eliminated?

Hey now, don't try to defuse and/or invalidate an emotional reaction with your "logic" and "reason" and "statistics".
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Old 07-18-18, 12:28 PM
  #105  
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Re: Should plastic straws be eliminated?

Originally Posted by AGuyNamedMike View Post
Hey now, don't try to defuse and/or invalidate an emotional reaction with your "logic" and "reason" and "statistics".
I've been posting here a long time. I know none of those things will change any minds in any way. I just provide some info with with the complete expectation that it will be ignored and folks will go on their merry way ignorantly happy that by not using a plastic straw they are saving the endangered Kentucky blue whale.
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Old 07-18-18, 04:11 PM
  #106  
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Re: Should plastic straws be eliminated?

Think I'll start using two straws from now on.
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Old 07-18-18, 04:19 PM
  #107  
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Re: Should plastic straws be eliminated?

The 500M straws claim is total BS

Beyond that, maybe try things like

1) Ask people if they want a straw versus hand them out by default
2) Work on technology so they can be recycled. I believe the problem is more with the recycling plants than the straws themselves.
3) Enforce littering laws
4) Get more of the road cleaning chain gang/community service folks picking up trash on the beaches.

Seems like trying things like that are a better idea than a ban
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Old 07-18-18, 04:28 PM
  #108  
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Re: Should plastic straws be eliminated?

Originally Posted by ben12 View Post
And I don't think the new lids are going to get stuck up any sea turtles' noses.
And what about the rest of the sea life.
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Old 07-18-18, 04:30 PM
  #109  
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Re: Should plastic straws be eliminated?

Originally Posted by BearFan View Post
The 500M straws claim is total BS

Beyond that, maybe try things like

1) Ask people if they want a straw versus hand them out by default
2) Work on technology so they can be recycled. I believe the problem is more with the recycling plants than the straws themselves.
3) Enforce littering laws
4) Get more of the road cleaning chain gang/community service folks picking up trash on the beaches.

Seems like trying things like that are a better idea than a ban
Would tend to agree with you. It seems banning things are easier than actual work. You feel-good, and you don't have to do anything or feel guilty any longer by going to the same retail joint that still sells a shitload of nasty plastics.

Very good point #2. Why aren't we as a society, working towards recycling more. Seems like recycling may have lost its momentum, due to a doomed-to-fail initiative by greedy politicians in the first place.

Forget recycling, we'll just boycott you and/or ban the products you use.

Yeah, that'll change behavior and will certainly get more people on your side of the fence...
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Old 07-18-18, 04:43 PM
  #110  
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Re: Should plastic straws be eliminated?

I should add, I rarely use a straw. Not for any eco reasons, I just would rather drink from the glass.

About the only time I really want one is for a milshake or a small stirrer straw in a mixed drink.

Beyond that, I try to say "I don't need a straw" .. again not so much for eco reasons, but more for the practical reason that it is stupid to give me something I do not want.

I would imagine that my first suggestion (ask, do not hand them out by default) would cut down on their use by quite a bit.
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Old 07-18-18, 07:11 PM
  #111  
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Re: Should plastic straws be eliminated?

I re-use my straws if I get them from the drive thru. I have a stainless steel one for my drinks at home. In my mind, the beverages taste better, but who knows. The plastic material for straws does seem to have changed for the worse.

Yeah, I agree, just don't flood your counter with straws. Make them available by request only.

I mean, it may be like the ketchup bottles in some restaurants where you have to literally beg for one for the fries at your table, but it does cut down on wasted ketchup and/or bottles being taken, etc.
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Old 07-18-18, 08:53 PM
  #112  
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Re: Should plastic straws be eliminated?

I quit using straws and lids about two years ago. I'm doing my part.

The amount of plastic waste fast food joints flood the earth with is ridiculous.
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Old 07-18-18, 09:00 PM
  #113  
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Re: Should plastic straws be eliminated?

Originally Posted by BearFan View Post
I should add, I rarely use a straw. Not for any eco reasons, I just would rather drink from the glass.

About the only time I really want one is for a milshake or a small stirrer straw in a mixed drink.
Same.
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Old 07-18-18, 09:19 PM
  #114  
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Re: Should plastic straws be eliminated?

Originally Posted by ben12 View Post
And I don't think the new lids are going to get stuck up any sea turtles' noses.
The sea turtles need to lay off of the cocaine.
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Old 07-19-18, 09:29 AM
  #115  
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Re: Should plastic straws be eliminated?

Originally Posted by AGuyNamedMike View Post
Hey now, don't try to defuse and/or invalidate an emotional reaction
um
Originally Posted by General Zod View Post
I hate paper straws.
The post "defusing and/or invalidating an emotional reaction" is literally predicated with an emotional reaction.

Originally Posted by DVD Polizei View Post
I re-use my straws if I get them from the drive thru. I have a stainless steel one for my drinks at home. In my mind, the beverages taste better, but who knows. The plastic material for straws does seem to have changed for the worse.

Yeah, I agree, just don't flood your counter with straws. Make them available by request only.

I mean, it may be like the ketchup bottles in some restaurants where you have to literally beg for one for the fries at your table, but it does cut down on wasted ketchup and/or bottles being taken, etc.
100% this. In total agreement. All people are saying is, don't use them if you don't need to. And some companies are saying, "We'll give you one if you ask." And some cities are saying, "Businesses should only offer them if people ask for them."
What I haven't seen are calls for outright bans, although the "Ban" language seems to be used even when it's not accurate, mostly by those opposed to the change, in an attempt to facilitate an emotional response.
Nobody is saying that straws aren't just a tiny fraction of the problem, but it's one that regular people CAN do better with. That's it.
In other words: "Pure lunacy!!"

Outrage culture is alive and well, although it's not coming from the "side" people think it is.
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Old 07-19-18, 10:03 AM
  #116  
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Re: Should plastic straws be eliminated?

Where I grew up the "man code" did not allow for males to use straws. They were called "sissy sticks". If you were a guy and caught using one you'd get teased about it.
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Old 07-22-18, 02:46 PM
  #117  
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Re: Should plastic straws be eliminated?

Originally Posted by DVD Polizei View Post
Where is the research backing up this Straw Phenom. Curious as to why they are so bad but everything else is ok.

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/07/19/b...check-nyt.html

How a 9-Year-Old Boy’s Statistic Shaped a Debate on Straws


July 19, 2018

If you’ve read a recent article about Starbucks, Marriott or Seattle banning plastic straws, you might have come across a striking statistic: Americans use about 500 million straws each day.

That figure has been cited widely, appearing in stories by USA Today, CNN, The Washington Post, The Wall Street Journal, Fox News and, yes, even The New York Times.

But consider the source: The number is based on research conducted years ago by an enterprising 9-year-old Vermont boy named Milo Cress.
Spoiler:

Professional estimates of straw usage are hard, but not impossible, to find. Yet, the number this fourth grader came up with in 2011, as part of a personal environmental conservation campaign, has proved surprisingly durable, working its way to the heart of the debate over plastic straws.

“It is honestly a little surprising,” said Mr. Cress, who turned 17 on Thursday. “I came up with this statistic because I couldn’t find anything else about it. If there are other statistics on how many straws we use that are based on more rigorous research than the research that I did, I’m happy to embrace those.”

Fact check: The claim that 500 million straws are used by Americans is an estimate above the ranges of more rigorous studies. Market research firms put the figure between 170 million and 390 million per day, or 63 billion to 142 billion straws per year.

One market research firm, Freedonia Group, determined that the nation used about 390 million straws a day last year. Another, Technomic, puts the number closer to 170 million, though that count excludes some types of straws.

But Mr. Cress, who then lived in Burlington, Vt., had access to neither of those figures when he developed his estimate in 2011, when he started “Be Straw Free,” a campaign to persuade restaurants to offer straws optionally rather than automatically.

After failing to find reliable statistics online about straw usage, he decided to call a handful of manufacturers himself.

“The average of those was 500 million,” he said, adding that, being 9, he had not thought to document the process closely. “It’s likely that the number has changed since then, and I would hope that the number has gone down.”

His anti-waste campaign received early coverage from local media in Vermont, but soon the fourth grader’s campaign was featured by outlets across the country, earning wide coverage for his cause — and the startling statistic.

In 2012, he teamed up with Eco-Cycle, a conservation nonprofit in Boulder, Colo., creating a partnership that, along with publicity from the National Park Service, helped to amplify his message.

The statistic continued to circulate steadily, accelerating this year as big businesses stopped using plastic straws and local governments began banning them. Scrutiny of the figure soon followed, particularly from publications with a libertarian or conservative bent, such as Reason magazine, National Review and Fox News.

For its part, Eco-Cycle has tried to verify the statistic, but its search turned up little: “What we got was very frustrated,” said Harlin Savage, communications director for the nonprofit.

The estimates were locked away inside expensive research reports published by consulting firms, which Eco-Cycle could not afford to buy.

Technomic, a firm that focuses on the food service market, recently estimated that nearly 63 billion straws were used last year in the food service industry, which includes restaurants, coffee shops, fast food chains, convenience stores, and cafeterias in hospitals, nursing homes and schools.

That figure, just over 170 million straws per day, does not include those purchased for home use or attached to juice boxes, among other uses. But, even if it did, it’s unlikely that the estimate would be as high as 500 million, said David Henkes, a senior principal at the firm.

“I don’t believe that consumers are using another couple hundred million straws at home every day,” he said.

Freedonia Group, a market research firm that covers a broad range of industries, arrived at a higher estimate: 142 billion straws last year, or 390 million per day.

For both firms, rigorous analysis is critical, as clients rely on the data they provide to make business and investment decisions.

The estimates, part of broader reports on food service products, relied on interviews with businesses all along the supply chain, from manufacturers of disposable packaging to distributors to customers. They represent months of work by teams that included analysts and economic experts.

The Foodservice Packaging Institute, an 85-year-old trade association, would not share its internal figures, saying only that it estimates that fewer than 250 million straws are used each day, within the range given by the consultants.

But that’s besides the point, the institute’s president, Lynn Dyer, said in an email.

“Whether it’s 500 million or 500 a day, we shouldn’t lose sight of the real issue: Straws should be disposed of properly and should never, ever be littered on land or in waterways,” she said.

Mr. Cress, who will be a high school senior this fall in Shelburne, Vt., agrees that the precise number is less important than the waste: “We use far too many straws than we need to, and really almost any number is higher than it needs to be.”
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Old 07-22-18, 02:51 PM
  #118  
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Re: Should plastic straws be eliminated?

I don't use straws unless I have to get in and suck the last part up of an alcoholic drink. They're expensive as hell in L.A., so I want as much as I can out of them and they can be heavy on the ice.
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Old 07-22-18, 03:06 PM
  #119  
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Re: Should plastic straws be eliminated?

Originally Posted by grundle View Post
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/07/19/b...check-nyt.html

How a 9-Year-Old Boy’s Statistic Shaped a Debate on Straws


July 19, 2018

If you’ve read a recent article about Starbucks, Marriott or Seattle banning plastic straws, you might have come across a striking statistic: Americans use about 500 million straws each day.

That figure has been cited widely, appearing in stories by USA Today, CNN, The Washington Post, The Wall Street Journal, Fox News and, yes, even The New York Times.

But consider the source: The number is based on research conducted years ago by an enterprising 9-year-old Vermont boy named Milo Cress.
Spoiler:

Professional estimates of straw usage are hard, but not impossible, to find. Yet, the number this fourth grader came up with in 2011, as part of a personal environmental conservation campaign, has proved surprisingly durable, working its way to the heart of the debate over plastic straws.

“It is honestly a little surprising,” said Mr. Cress, who turned 17 on Thursday. “I came up with this statistic because I couldn’t find anything else about it. If there are other statistics on how many straws we use that are based on more rigorous research than the research that I did, I’m happy to embrace those.”

Fact check: The claim that 500 million straws are used by Americans is an estimate above the ranges of more rigorous studies. Market research firms put the figure between 170 million and 390 million per day, or 63 billion to 142 billion straws per year.

One market research firm, Freedonia Group, determined that the nation used about 390 million straws a day last year. Another, Technomic, puts the number closer to 170 million, though that count excludes some types of straws.

But Mr. Cress, who then lived in Burlington, Vt., had access to neither of those figures when he developed his estimate in 2011, when he started “Be Straw Free,” a campaign to persuade restaurants to offer straws optionally rather than automatically.

After failing to find reliable statistics online about straw usage, he decided to call a handful of manufacturers himself.

“The average of those was 500 million,” he said, adding that, being 9, he had not thought to document the process closely. “It’s likely that the number has changed since then, and I would hope that the number has gone down.”

His anti-waste campaign received early coverage from local media in Vermont, but soon the fourth grader’s campaign was featured by outlets across the country, earning wide coverage for his cause — and the startling statistic.

In 2012, he teamed up with Eco-Cycle, a conservation nonprofit in Boulder, Colo., creating a partnership that, along with publicity from the National Park Service, helped to amplify his message.

The statistic continued to circulate steadily, accelerating this year as big businesses stopped using plastic straws and local governments began banning them. Scrutiny of the figure soon followed, particularly from publications with a libertarian or conservative bent, such as Reason magazine, National Review and Fox News.

For its part, Eco-Cycle has tried to verify the statistic, but its search turned up little: “What we got was very frustrated,” said Harlin Savage, communications director for the nonprofit.

The estimates were locked away inside expensive research reports published by consulting firms, which Eco-Cycle could not afford to buy.

Technomic, a firm that focuses on the food service market, recently estimated that nearly 63 billion straws were used last year in the food service industry, which includes restaurants, coffee shops, fast food chains, convenience stores, and cafeterias in hospitals, nursing homes and schools.

That figure, just over 170 million straws per day, does not include those purchased for home use or attached to juice boxes, among other uses. But, even if it did, it’s unlikely that the estimate would be as high as 500 million, said David Henkes, a senior principal at the firm.

“I don’t believe that consumers are using another couple hundred million straws at home every day,” he said.

Freedonia Group, a market research firm that covers a broad range of industries, arrived at a higher estimate: 142 billion straws last year, or 390 million per day.

For both firms, rigorous analysis is critical, as clients rely on the data they provide to make business and investment decisions.

The estimates, part of broader reports on food service products, relied on interviews with businesses all along the supply chain, from manufacturers of disposable packaging to distributors to customers. They represent months of work by teams that included analysts and economic experts.

The Foodservice Packaging Institute, an 85-year-old trade association, would not share its internal figures, saying only that it estimates that fewer than 250 million straws are used each day, within the range given by the consultants.

But that’s besides the point, the institute’s president, Lynn Dyer, said in an email.

“Whether it’s 500 million or 500 a day, we shouldn’t lose sight of the real issue: Straws should be disposed of properly and should never, ever be littered on land or in waterways,” she said.

Mr. Cress, who will be a high school senior this fall in Shelburne, Vt., agrees that the precise number is less important than the waste: “We use far too many straws than we need to, and really almost any number is higher than it needs to be.”
Interesting, indeed.

What's also lacking from that research, is providing the proof all those straws are killing turtles. How are all those straws going into the sea? Most landfills...are on land.
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Old 07-23-18, 12:22 PM
  #120  
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Re: Should plastic straws be eliminated?

A recent Reason TV video on the straw debate:

"Stossel: Plastic Straw Myths"
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Old 07-23-18, 12:38 PM
  #121  
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Re: Should plastic straws be eliminated?

Originally Posted by DVD Polizei View Post
Very good point #2. Why aren't we as a society, working towards recycling more. Seems like recycling may have lost its momentum, due to a doomed-to-fail initiative by greedy politicians in the first place.
Recycling makes people all warm in fuzzy, but it does no good if you can't find a country that wants to take your recycled plastic.


Plastics Pile Up as China Refuses to Take the West’s Recycling
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Old 07-23-18, 05:06 PM
  #122  
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Re: Should plastic straws be eliminated?

Originally Posted by funkyryno View Post
Recycling makes people all warm in fuzzy, but it does no good if you can't find a country that wants to take your recycled plastic.


Plastics Pile Up as China Refuses to Take the West’s Recycling
Why the hell does China need to take our plastic would be my first question. China has enough of its own materials.

Unfortunately, recycling is a joke, but it shouldn't be. We can do it, but we need actual resolutions and solutions to the problem, but our politicians don't want that, and simply want to create feel-good fees and light-hearted responses.

You'd think the most prominent cities who boast and brag the most about recycling would be changing things...but they aren't. They're just as greedy and corrupt as any other city and city council.

Green Cities...where greed and corruption are protected, regardless of laws.
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Old 07-23-18, 06:16 PM
  #123  
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Re: Should plastic straws be eliminated?

Why the hell does China need to take our plastic would be my first question. China has enough of its own materials.
They take our junk plastic and turn it into junky plastic goods that are resold to us at Walmart.

I suspect in the future (perhaps the distant future) as resources become scarce our nation's landfills will be mined for the materials that we once carelessly tossed away.
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Old 07-23-18, 06:36 PM
  #124  
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Re: Should plastic straws be eliminated?

Scandinavian countries take it, but we're probably not on friendly terms right now.
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Old 07-25-18, 10:35 PM
  #125  
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Re: Should plastic straws be eliminated?

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