broadwayblue

So it looks like my streak of good luck with paypal has ended. Listed a pair of Rangers playoff tickets on Craigslist, had a buyer make me an offer on Saturday (less than what I was asking) and I accepted. Payment came through, tickets were forwarded, claimed, and acknowledged as received and printed by the buyer all before 3 PM. This morning I get an email from paypal:

You have received a payment that we believe may not have been authorized by
the PayPal account holder. Here are the details of the transaction we are
investigating:
-----------------------------------
Transaction Details
-----------------------------------

Sender’s name: Kristine M
Sender’s email: [email protected]
Transaction ID: 16448XXXXX

Transaction date: May 24, 2015
Transaction amount: $600.00 USD
Your transaction ID: 40M0XXXXXXXXXXXX
Case number: PP-XXXXXXXXXXXXXX

We recommend that you don’t ship the item until our investigation is
complete. If you’ve already shipped the item, please log in to your PayPal
account and go to the Resolution Center to provide the shipping details.

In order to continue our investigation, we need some additional information
from you.

I went to the resolution center and uploaded the email confirmation from MSG indicating that the buyer had accepted my ticket transfer as well as the emails received from the buyer stating she had received and printed the tickets. Anything else I should do? The money has already been deducted from my account pending their review.

In order for this truly to have been a payment not authorized by the paypal account holder, someone would have had to have compromised 1) her hotmail account, 2) her paypal account, and 3) her ticketmaster account. Seems pretty unlikely to me.

DirkUSA

The Rangers lost! That's why!

broadwayblue

No doubt she felt she didn't get her money's worth. lol

DJariya

That happened to me once right here. Some scammer in the DVD Exchange forum bought one of my UV Codes and paid me $4 via Paypal and then I e-mailed the code to him. Didn't give it a 2nd thought, until a day later when I received an e-mail from Paypal saying the account used to pay me was apparently hacked and Paypal was investigating. Eventually Paypal took away the money from me. I was basically shit out of luck.

SuperJim88

You should call the Madison Square Garden to ask them to pull the security tape of the people sitting in the seats you sold. Call local news media and ask them to do a segment with that security tape. Nab the son of bitches, profit!! Quick, their surveillance is on a 24 hour loop. You have 6 more hours to call them and retrieve the footage.

JCWBobC

I don't know what you mean by tickets were forwarded and claimed but Paypal used to require on line delivery confirmation. They usually won't look at emails but as long as you have a type of confirmation that they can look up and verify you should win the case. It may be a case where a family member or boyfriend used her account and didn't tell her so she opens a case because she doesn't know about the transaction.

Did you get an email from Paypal saying that payment was received and you should send the tickets? If you did that will help your case but if you didn't then you might be in trouble.

Sonic

The buyer called PayPal claiming they did not make the purchase with their credit card or their child was the one that made the purchase. In this case PayPal will reside with them.

SuperJim88

Jesus, if you file a fraudulent charge attempt compliant with Paypal, they'll come and live in your house? Close my paypal account now.

Goat3001

Let's see here: Paypal asked for proof of sale, so you provided an email chain that showed direct communication between you and the buyer in which the buyer says that she received the item. And to go over the top, you also provided proof that the tickets were sent to the email address the buyer provided and that the tickets were received and printed.

Sounds like you did everything right and that you've provided everything you can possibly provide to prove that the sale was made, short of a blood oath.

So yeah, you're screwed out of your money.

If Paypal doesn't side with you then use her email to sign up for a bunch of porn stuff.

JCWBobC

Section 11.4
Although we are expanding PayPal Purchase Protection to buyers for intangible items, Seller Protection will not apply to intangible items. We are including a note in this section about this. In addition, we are adding a definition of Proof of Delivery for intangible or virtual items or services which can help a seller win a buyer’s Item Not Received Purchase Protection Claim.

The revised section 11.4 reads as follows:

11.4 Proof of Shipment, Proof of Delivery and Signature Confirmation Requirements.

"Proof of Shipment" is online or physical documentation from a shipping company that includes all of the following:

The date the item is shipped.
The recipient’s address matches the shipping address provided on the Transaction Details Page.
The recipient’s address, showing at least the city & state, or city & country, or zip/postal code (or international equivalent).

"Proof of Delivery" for intangible or virtual items or services is documentation satisfactory to PayPal that the item or service was provided to the buyer such as proof of download including the date of fulfillment.

NOTE: Although Purchase Protection extends coverage to buyers for intangible items, Seller Protection does not apply to intangible items. However, having proper Proof of Delivery can help a seller win a buyer’s Item Not Received Purchase Protection Claim.

“Proof of Delivery” for tangible items is online documentation from a shipping company that includes all of the following:

The item’s status as delivered.
The date the item is delivered.
The recipient address is the same as in the shipping address section on the Transaction Details Page.
The recipient's address, showing at least the city & state, or city & country, or zip/postal code (or international equivalent).
Signature Confirmation as described below if the full amount of the payment including shipping and taxes is $750 USD or more or its foreign currency equivalent provided below:


850 Australian Dollar (AUD)


950 New Zealand Dollar (NZD)

1,750 Brazilian Real (BRL)


4,600 Norwegian Krone (NOK)

850 Canadian Dollar (CAD)


34,000 Philippine Peso (PHP)

15,000 Czech Republic Koruna (CZK)


2,300 Polish New Zloty (PLN)

4,100 Danish Krone (DKK)


450 Pound Sterling – United Kingdom (GBP)

550 Euro (EUR)


950 Singaporean Dollar (SGD)

6,000 Hong Kong Dollar (HKD)


4,950 Swedish Krona (SEK)

170,000 Hungarian Forint (HUF)


700 Swiss Franc (CHF)

2,700 Israeli Shekel (ILS)


23,000 Taiwan New Dollar (TWD)

77,000 Japanese Yen (JPY)


24,500 Thai Baht (THB)

10,000 Mexican New Peso (MXN)

"Signature Confirmation" is online documentation that can be viewed at the shipping company’s website and indicates that the item was signed for on delivery.

mndtrp

Anything you can do? Move on with your life. Paypal isn't particularly friendly towards sellers.

Troy Stiffler

Yea. Turns out the whole "mainstream merchant account for consumers" is mostly unprotected to use to receive funds. Far more dangerous than they ever advertise. Especially if you (like most people) can't stand to lose $600. I know if I lost $600 today, I'd be scrambling to pay the bills before shit gets turned off. Or it'd get subsidized to credit card debt.

To send funds, make sure you're always paying with a credit card (you must have a $0 balance to use your CC) so that you're guaranteed protection.

Until something better comes along, people need to get back to using cash. If you met the person and said "cash only", you probably would have still sold the tickets.

As-is, that guy probably scalped your tickets or something. I doubt they pulled a credit card scam, just to go see a ball game. The buyer got around $600 out of the deal and is probably untraceable.

I would have the smallest (tiniest) hope that PayPal will absorb the loss. It DOES happen. But it's really up to them. And this is extra sketchy because of the digital nature of this transaction (no physical goods, no physical delivery, no signature, etc).

cungar

How's that going to work for internet purchases?

chowderhead

Jesus can come down from heaven and personally deliver the Rangers tickets to the buyer and vouch with video tape proof that the buyer received them and Paypal will still side with the buyer as not protected. Sorry.

Deftones

this is why you have to use those certified ticket exchanges. just too much risk w/ anything else.

Paff

Wait, you accepted a Paypal payment through something from CRAIGSLIST?

I'm sorry, but you deserved what you got.

Norm de Plume

I fucking detest scammers.

Abob Teff

DebGator?

broadwayblue

I guess I was lucky the last 300 times I did. lol

broadwayblue

Turns out even Stubhub is no guarantee for sellers. Only option to be 100% protected is ticketmaster's ticket exchange.

broadwayblue

Yeah, no doubt.

The thing that's frustrating is why is it my responsibility to ensure the payment is legit? Someone sent me money and I fulfilled my end of the contract. Seems to me that's all I should be expected to do, no?

broadwayblue

I'm curious to see what they do come back to me with. Bottom line is I'm going to take the issue as far as I can. They've made thousands of dollars on my sales over the past decade, so I hope they take that into consideration.

And it sucks to potentially take the hit on this. Fortunately the Rangers forced a game 7...Friday night at MSG is going to be a hot ticket. Won't be selling any extra tickets for $300 this time.

DVD Josh

I have many times for guitar gear. What I've done in the past is take a picture of the guy holding the item with a copy of his driver's license (and another closeup pic of the DL). Never had anyone try what happened to the OP, but they would be hard pressed to convince anyone with that evidence. I got this idea b/c I've heard about what happened to the OP before, with concert tickets usually.

Troy Stiffler

Did they provide a delivery address? I doubt it. But it would be something to look up. Also, Google their phone #, email, name, etc. See what comes up. You might find that the guy uses an email to scam people for a week or two, and then disappears.

Troy Stiffler

Disclaimer: Without looking into it, I have ZERO understanding of how online tickets work. From Ticketmaster, to how that ticket is used at the venue. I don't get out to big venues much (no, at all ... maybe 2005 was the last time).

Did you buy the tickets for profit? Or was it a game that you couldn't make it to? Is ticket scalping still a thing (with all the new tech)?