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19 Kids and Diddling - Josh Duggar Admits to Molestation Accusations

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19 Kids and Diddling - Josh Duggar Admits to Molestation Accusations

Old 05-25-15, 12:41 PM
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Re: 19 Kids and Diddling - Josh Duggar Admits to Molestation Accusations

Originally Posted by creekdipper View Post
Then you consider yourself among a rare breed?

Well I'm all for the guy being punished and think there's something wrong with him, but "the rest of his life suffering and miserable" for what he did when he was 15? I think we can put away the torches and pitchforks. -cungar
Nice. Because I don't want him in jail for life, I'm a child molester lover.

Must be nice living life of puritanism and hypocrisy.
Old 05-25-15, 02:25 PM
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Re: 19 Kids and Diddling - Josh Duggar Admits to Molestation Accusations

As I've been accused of "dragging religion into this," I'd like to point out that the Duggars did it first.

“He continued to do what he was taught. [I know] who Josh really is—someone who had gone down a wrong path and had humbled himself before God and those whom he had offended. Someone who had received the help needed to change the direction of his life and do what is right.”

Josh claims he would, “do anything to go back to those teen years and take different actions.” “I sought forgiveness from those I had wronged and asked Christ to forgive me and come into my life. In my life today, I am so very thankful for God’s grace, mercy and redemption.”
Old 05-25-15, 05:03 PM
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Re: 19 Kids and Diddling - Josh Duggar Admits to Molestation Accusations

Originally Posted by Draven View Post
As I've been accused of "dragging religion into this," I'd like to point out that the Duggars did it first.
I am so very thankful for Godís grace, mercy and redemption.

Are you doubting God gave him all of that? lol
Old 05-25-15, 06:37 PM
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Re: 19 Kids and Diddling - Josh Duggar Admits to Molestation Accusations

I wonder how many people would be rushing to defend Joshie if he'd molested little BOYS.
Old 05-25-15, 07:37 PM
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Re: 19 Kids and Diddling - Josh Duggar Admits to Molestation Accusations

Originally Posted by Vibiana View Post
I wonder how many people would be rushing to defend Joshie if he'd molested little BOYS.

Pretty much the same suspects. Blind devotion trumps sexual orientation in this case.
Old 05-25-15, 08:19 PM
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Re: 19 Kids and Diddling - Josh Duggar Admits to Molestation Accusations

Originally Posted by Vibiana View Post
I wonder how many people would be rushing to defend Joshie if he'd molested little BOYS.
Oh, probably most of them. As long as he's a good, sanctimonious chiristian who still scolds the gays publicly, they're not going to be inclined to rock the boat over what he does behind closed doors.

See, they're inherently "good" people so their sins are automatically forgiven through loopholes like grace and special dispensation.

Now if he came out of the closet and wanted to marry another man...
Old 05-25-15, 08:27 PM
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Re: 19 Kids and Diddling - Josh Duggar Admits to Molestation Accusations

Also, anyone who thinks this kind of thing isn't rampant in big families needs to read Stephen Zanichkowsky's excellent but somber memoir, "Fourteen." It's available through Amazon and well worth a read.
Old 05-25-15, 08:39 PM
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Re: 19 Kids and Diddling - Josh Duggar Admits to Molestation Accusations



Josh was really getting around right before the news broke. He may be getting a wake up call soon about who his real friends are... and are not...

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/...uggar-problem/
Old 05-25-15, 09:00 PM
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Re: 19 Kids and Diddling - Josh Duggar Admits to Molestation Accusations








Last edited by Josh-da-man; 05-25-15 at 09:07 PM.
Old 05-25-15, 09:14 PM
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Re: 19 Kids and Diddling - Josh Duggar Admits to Molestation Accusations

Old 05-25-15, 09:59 PM
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Re: 19 Kids and Diddling - Josh Duggar Admits to Molestation Accusations

Originally Posted by Josh-da-man View Post
Oh, probably most of them. As long as he's a good, sanctimonious chiristian who still scolds the gays publicly, they're not going to be inclined to rock the boat over what he does behind closed doors.

See, they're inherently "good" people so their sins are automatically forgiven through loopholes like grace and special dispensation.

Now if he came out of the closet and wanted to marry another man...
Gee I wonder how many people would be rabidly tearing apart the Duggar name if Josh had only stolen a candy bar from a store at age 9? It would still be the same usual suspects blustering about the family's hypocrisy.
Old 05-25-15, 10:37 PM
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Re: 19 Kids and Diddling - Josh Duggar Admits to Molestation Accusations

I have not seen the show, did they say on the show that they didn't approve of gays? Seems like TLC and sponsors wouldn't stand for that?

I read that one victim wanted the police report destroyed and the judge agreed, yet someone somehow got a copy. Wonder who.

Since he was 14-15, it was unlikely he would have gotten much if any jail time anyway and his record would have been sealed when he became an adult. Hopefully there werne't and won't be more victims.

Interesting to see how TLC handles this - keep Josh out or cancel the show?

Maybe they can bring back Trading Spaces. That was a good show.
Old 05-25-15, 10:41 PM
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Re: 19 Kids and Diddling - Josh Duggar Admits to Molestation Accusations

Originally Posted by creekdipper View Post
And, although I can't recall any mental health professionals posting in this thread, there have been several posts made questioning those who are calling for this person's head on a platter for what he did at age 14. Those posts seem to be ignored even though they offer professional testimony re: how juveniles are treated in the justice system as well as common sense re: putting juveniles in prison for life for non-capital offenses.

This thread SHOULD have been about the incident. Bringing unfounded theories into the discussion (such as blaming Christianity) is not only foolish, it's just wrong...just as it would be to blame the parents of atheists who tried to teach their kids that certain actions are wrong but who are ignored by their kids. We all know what the reaction of atheist/agnostic posters would be if THAT happened.


And I even defended your OP too.

But seriously, the ridiculous path that this thread has gone down, with people calling for life sentences for 14 year olds, is just asinine. You posted a good link too about juvenile offenders, that many here seem to have skipped right by. At this point it doesn't seem like anyone is reading what you are saying and instead just playing a game of "gotcha" and trying to twist your words, without any real attempts at a discussion. Which is why I vacated after my one post...
Old 05-25-15, 10:58 PM
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Re: 19 Kids and Diddling - Josh Duggar Admits to Molestation Accusations

Originally Posted by dave-o View Post


And I even defended your OP too.

But seriously, the ridiculous path that this thread has gone down, with people calling for life sentences for 14 year olds, is just asinine. You posted a good link too about juvenile offenders, that many here seem to have skipped right by. At this point it doesn't seem like anyone is reading what you are saying and instead just playing a game of "gotcha" and trying to twist your words, without any real attempts at a discussion. Which is why I vacated after my one post...

A person
called for life sentences for 14 year olds. That's not a path this thread has gone down.
Old 05-25-15, 11:03 PM
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Re: 19 Kids and Diddling - Josh Duggar Admits to Molestation Accusations

That was the most egregious example of the path I was referring to, but not the only asinine one imo.
Old 05-26-15, 12:17 AM
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Re: 19 Kids and Diddling - Josh Duggar Admits to Molestation Accusations

I took find myself generally agreeing with creekdipper which is, a first, but I also generally read things for content.
Old 05-26-15, 12:29 AM
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Re: 19 Kids and Diddling - Josh Duggar Admits to Molestation Accusations

Originally Posted by dvdjunkie32 View Post
Gee I wonder how many people would be rabidly tearing apart the Duggar name if Josh had only stolen a candy bar from a store at age 9? It would still be the same usual suspects blustering about the family's hypocrisy.
You can't be speaking out about protecting children when you've covered up your own son's serial molestation tendencies. You just can't.
Old 05-26-15, 07:04 AM
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Re: 19 Kids and Diddling - Josh Duggar Admits to Molestation Accusations

Originally Posted by cungar View Post
Nice. Because I don't want him in jail for life, I'm a child molester lover.

Must be nice living life of puritanism and hypocrisy.
Can't you see that this type of accusation is exactly what you were doing? You strongly implied...without specifically identifying anyone even when challenged to do so & to provide support...that some were "defending" child molesters...simply because those posters were saying the same thing you are (that he doesn't need to go to jail for life). In the eyes of the one or two posters who are calling for life in prison (and implied in the one case that he would apply harsher punishment if possible...presumably, the death penalty)...that qualifies as "defending" child molesters to some. It's all in the eyes of the beholder.

The point is that you need to be careful about throwing around charges against other posters without proof. As I pointed out, in the eyes of those posters wanting harsher legal punishment than you recommend, you are a "defender" of a child molester. It's all relative. Btw...in the eyes of that poster, seems that pretty much everyone here is "defending" a child molester since they don't think life in prison is justified.

As far as "hypocrisy"...calling others names for expressing the same opinions as yourself and then failing to see the irony? Physician, heal thyself.

Originally Posted by Draven View Post
As I've been accused of "dragging religion into this," I'd like to point out that the Duggars did it first.
Giving the benefit of the doubt, that is a fair point...up to a point. If the Duggars had not mentioned God's forgiveness, etc. and had simply said that he had expressed remorse for his actions and changed, would you still have rushed to express your disdain for those sentiments? In other words, does evoking the name of God & religious principles undermine the credibility of a person's ability to express remorse and change (which, as you know, is a factor taken into account by judges when imposing sentences)?

Originally Posted by Vibiana View Post
I wonder how many people would be rushing to defend Joshie if he'd molested little BOYS.
Dunno. How many people are "rushing to defend him" in this thread? Cite a single post that justifies what he did.

As someone who was molested by a teen BOY, I don't have any more love or animosity toward molesters regardless of the gender of the victims. As a teacher and coach (primarily of girls), I confess to a certain amount of sexism in that I tended to be more protective of girls than boys re: sexual aggression toward them (since it usually...not always...originated with the boys). I did protect boys who were being bullied, especially those who were deemed to have effeminate traits & were singled out for that reason, and applied the strongest discipline allowed to punish that behavior.

But realizing that adolescents such as Duggar's case is different from middle-aged Cosbies & Polanskis is not "defending" child molesters. It's recognizing that minors...particularly very young teenagers...have a lot of issues that should be resolved by adulthood. The irony is that this is exactly what most liberals seem to argue...raging hormones, mood swings, poor decision-making, impulsive behavior, undefined sense of self & purpose, peer pressure, etc. make teenagers particularly susceptible to bad decision-making. It's not a matter of "defending" the behavior, which went beyond moral & legal justifiable actions. It's remembering that 14-year-olds are not regarded as legally being able to give consent to sexual activity, that they are not legally able to serve in the military or quit school & get a full-time job, that they cannot legally sign contracts & be held responsible for business decisions without parental or guardian oversight, etc. In other words, our justice system...and MOST in society...see minors in different light than adults.

Originally Posted by Ranger View Post
I have not seen the show, did they say on the show that they didn't approve of gays? Seems like TLC and sponsors wouldn't stand for that?
That is almost exactly what I asked a few pages back but got no answer. Maybe you'll get a better response. Maybe everyone is in the same boat as you & I...never seen the show.

Originally Posted by dave-o View Post


And I even defended your OP too.

But seriously, the ridiculous path that this thread has gone down, with people calling for life sentences for 14 year olds, is just asinine. You posted a good link too about juvenile offenders, that many here seem to have skipped right by. At this point it doesn't seem like anyone is reading what you are saying and instead just playing a game of "gotcha" and trying to twist your words, without any real attempts at a discussion. Which is why I vacated after my one post...
Thank you, dave.

And I apologize for not recognizing that you were speaking as a mental health professional. When I read your post, I somehow got the impression that you were with the justice system (district attorney's office, public defender, social worker, probation officer, guidance counselor, etc.). I didn't realize that you were speaking from the standpoint of psychiatric work. Sorry...wasn't meant as a slight.

Your standing as a mental health professional makes your opinions even more relevant re: treatment and punishment of juvenile sex offenders. As has been pointed out by you (and others), each case is different. Some will change; some won't.

Last edited by creekdipper; 05-26-15 at 09:00 AM.
Old 05-26-15, 07:08 AM
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Re: 19 Kids and Diddling - Josh Duggar Admits to Molestation Accusations

creek, I pretty much agree with the basic approach of what you've been saying here. That is, what the kid did was absolutely wrong, but a crime as a 14-year-old doesn't necessarily mean someone's scum as an adult. Also, I think most parents made aware of such a situation with their kid would seek therapy/treatment for him and the victims as opposed to calling the cops on their child. I do think you're missing the point of a lot of the criticism people have made, albeit with varying levels of civility, that families with this bad of a skeleton in their closet should probably not take to the national stage to judge others and proclaim how superior their lifestyle is.

That said, you have stressed multiple times here that kids will often get up to sexual stuff regardless of their upbringing. Unless I'm misremembering, which is possible, I believe you were quite adamant that Christian parents shouldn't feel obligated to get their kids the HPV vaccine, because it's better to teach them that sex outside of marriage is wrong and that they'll never have to worry about an STD if they stick to what's right. I don't mean to derail the thread into a discussion on vaccinations, but from the outside, these appear to be either pretty contradictory positions or taking the stance that kids who make mistakes (or are victims of kids who make mistakes) deserve to potentially get a disease their parents could have easily protected them from.
Old 05-26-15, 07:50 AM
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Re: 19 Kids and Diddling - Josh Duggar Admits to Molestation Accusations

Originally Posted by Draven View Post
You can't be speaking out about protecting children when you've covered up your own son's serial molestation tendencies. You just can't.
So, if your son was involved with drugs (including selling or providing drugs to others...which, in addition to being illegal, could have disastrous or fatal consequences)...you would say that entering your son into a treatment program and eventually reporting the behavior to law enforcement is "covering it up"?

And you would feel that you would be a hypocrite for speaking out against drug use among kids? Or that you could not do so without revealing to the world what your now-adult son had done as a young teen?

It would seem that parents whose kids have been abused...even if by one of their own siblings...would have a bigger stake in wanting to protect children and have more understanding of the danger. Maybe dave or another professional can confirm this, but aren't most child abusers known by their victims? Aren't they often friends or family members?

Let's forget for a moment that the Duggars profess to be Christians (when I taught school, I NEVER in 30 years "investigated" any kid's family to see their religious or nonreligious beliefs, so it's easy for me to look at the situation objectively). Let's just treat them as parents.

The Duggars obviously should have (and, for all we know, did) examined not only their son but also their family structure to see what went wrong. I know that, in the case of my sexual abuse, it took place right under the nose of both sets of parents. Yet I never once blamed my parents (or my abuser's) for not recognizing what was going on at the time. One can hope that the Duggars not only sought treatment (regardless of the questionable source...but that could happen with any counselor who turns out to have issues, as I sometimes read about in the papers) but also changed routines in the home to insure this couldn't happen again.

I don't know...maybe my own experience has skewed my perceptions of how public these things should be made or how much the legal system should be involved, but do you feel that you as a parent would have to demand that your child be put in a juvenile detention center if you discovered that he/she had touched kids in a sexual manner? Do you not think that, since most of these cases are going to end with the juvenile being sentenced to counseling and monitoring, that doing the same thing privately is the same as "covering up" the crime or ignoring it? Do you take into consideration the effects of "uncovering" the crime publicly might have upon the victims?

These aren't rhetorical questions...I'm asking seriously for your opinion. Didn't you work at a rape crisis center (if I'm remembering correctly)? If so, that gives you a different perspective which you could share. Do you see a difference between the need to prosecute aggravated, forcible rape (penetration) and fondling (from your experience with victims)?

Just wondering how parents would handle this situation if they were the Duggars.
Old 05-26-15, 08:21 AM
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Re: 19 Kids and Diddling - Josh Duggar Admits to Molestation Accusations

Originally Posted by maxfisher View Post
creek, I pretty much agree with the basic approach of what you've been saying here. That is, what the kid did was absolutely wrong, but a crime as a 14-year-old doesn't necessarily mean someone's scum as an adult. Also, I think most parents made aware of such a situation with their kid would seek therapy/treatment for him and the victims as opposed to calling the cops on their child. I do think you're missing the point of a lot of the criticism people have made, albeit with varying levels of civility, that families with this bad of a skeleton in their closet should probably not take to the national stage to judge others and proclaim how superior their lifestyle is.

That said, you have stressed multiple times here that kids will often get up to sexual stuff regardless of their upbringing. Unless I'm misremembering, which is possible, I believe you were quite adamant that Christian parents shouldn't feel obligated to get their kids the HPV vaccine, because it's better to teach them that sex outside of marriage is wrong and that they'll never have to worry about an STD if they stick to what's right. I don't mean to derail the thread into a discussion on vaccinations, but from the outside, these appear to be either pretty contradictory positions or taking the stance that kids who make mistakes (or are victims of kids who make mistakes) deserve to potentially get a disease their parents could have easily protected them from.
Max, that is a very fair critical point to bring up & you are remembering correctly. As you said, without derailing the thread into an entirely different area, I totally get what you're saying about the tension between realizing about the sexual activities that can take place among teens and parents not wanting to appear to be giving their seal of approval (or, at least, indicating that while they don't want their kids to engage in sexual activity, they expect that there's a high likelihood that it may happen). I understand that those who have said (literally) that they will give their daughters the HPV vaccine as soon as possible (8? 9?) and give them birth control...but that there are also those who have said that they would do it not to be "permissive" but simply to do everything possible to prevent pregnancies and STD's in the event that sexual activity occurs...and I understand that they don't see that as "giving permission."

So I get that viewpoint. And I know parents can't monitor their kids 100% of the time. And I understand that others might ridicule the idea of God's sovereignty being in control of whatever happens regardless of precautions taken. Parents allow their kids to be in potentially dangerous (or fatal) situations (driving, sports, riding horses, swimming, etc.) and do the best they can. The fact is that the information about the HPV vaccine (and birth control) almost entirely is driven by the assumption of a high likelihood of sexual activity taking place. That's why the CDC recommends that the vaccine be given at ages shortly before sexual activity is likely to occur.

When I said that sexual activity is common (playing Capt. Obvious), I hoped that the idea also got across that it usually happens when kids are in unsupervised situations when the parents are not present. No, the parents can't keep kids locked up, but they can regularly monitor their kids' activities, their whereabouts, and become acquainted with their friends & their parents. There ARE ways to keep the kids pretty safe. In my case, my parents were naive enough to never suspect that an older neighbor boy who whose parents were family friends would sexually molest their son. So I freely acknowledge that there aren't 100% guarantees & understand the attitudes who think that responsible parents should take any medical precaution available (presumably, short of chastity belts).

I think all here who either remember being a kid, have been parents, or have worked extensively with kids recognize that kids don't always follow their parents' teachings (although a few here say that, in those cases, the parents are totally to blame). That applies to the nonreligious and the religious (and the permissive and the strict). If one believes that everything is just left up to chance, it's understandable that one would not understand someone relying upon Providence and the belief that "all things works together for those who love the Lord and are called according to His purpose." There really is no reconciling those positions philosophically. And before anyone bothers to point it out, yes, the same negative things could happen regardless of the philosophy (see Job).

It's a tension, and it has been discussed frankly (with kids present) at meetings at church. It's not as though it's just ignored.

Very good topic, though. Probably come up again in a future thread.
Old 05-26-15, 08:58 AM
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Re: 19 Kids and Diddling - Josh Duggar Admits to Molestation Accusations

Originally Posted by hdnmickey View Post
Josh was really getting around right before the news broke. He may be getting a wake up call soon about who his real friends are... and are not...
That is a very good observation. If the candidates who valued him as a friend before abandon & distance themselves from him now, they're sending the message that they don't believe in personal redemption or that crimes committed by young teenagers can be overcome & people can be given a second chance.

On the other hand, there's no shortage of photo ops with Wm. Jeff Clinton despite the many credible allegations of fondling and groping made by him toward women who have come publicly forward. He's just a good ole boy & his accusers (even the wealthy ones) are trailer trash (the Carville doctrine). I confronted Carville about his statement once & his response was, "I guess you won't be buying my book."
Old 05-26-15, 10:11 AM
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Re: 19 Kids and Diddling - Josh Duggar Admits to Molestation Accusations

Originally Posted by creekdipper View Post
And that's the point. He was FOURTEEN. It's BIZARRE how many posters are acting as if 14-year-olds are as mature as adults. Teenagers are often moody, impulsive, contradictory, etc. Some go farther and do things no one would suspect them capable of doing...stealing, lying, bullying, peeking at girls who are dressing, sexting, etc. Are we really that shocked and amazed that a boy barely in his teens does something wrong? If he had been caught selling drugs to friends...or his younger siblings, would that have made him a horrible person for life?
Comparing selling drugs to molesting your sister is a big fucking stretch. It's such a huge stretch that it will undoubtedly lead to gaping and profuse bleeding. At 14, kids aren't very mature, true, but 99.99% of 14 year olds know that it's wrong to rub the crotches of their younger sisters. For fuck's sake. This is some twisted shit. It assumes the type of moral flexibility that is injected into our society like a load of leftist cum, apologists and social justice warriors line up! Accountability be damned, we can explain away even the most revolting behavior of our youth, because of "immaturity". His fucking parents are a fucking joke. Fuck them, and fuck this piece of pedophile trash.
Old 05-26-15, 10:30 AM
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Re: 19 Kids and Diddling - Josh Duggar Admits to Molestation Accusations

Last year, Cosmopolitan ran an interview with four of the Duggar daughters during the womenís promotional tour for their book Growing Up Duggar. While the interview was intended to make the girls seem normal and relatable (even though they are four of 19 and participate in a religious sect which blames young girls for molestation), itís now eerily sinister.

The interview was brought to our attention by longtime reader and Duggar expert Snacktastic who called that the interview was creepy over a year ago when Jana, Jessa, Jill, and Jinger spoke to Cosmopolitan about getting drunk and being virgins. But now that Josh Duggarís molestation has come to light, thereís something even more creepy about the Duggarsí answers to questions about love and romance.

From Cosmopolitan:


So youíve never kissed anyone?

Jessa: Nope ó well, I mean my brothers! I think all of us girls have really purposed to save our first kiss for our wedding day.
Old 05-26-15, 02:14 PM
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Re: 19 Kids and Diddling - Josh Duggar Admits to Molestation Accusations

I sorta agree with Creeks. Clearly he had some serious sexual issues as a kid, and clearly it was inappropriate, but I don't think it much of an issue today unless additional molestation accusations come out when he was an adult.

But I do enjoy the irony of yet another pro-family anti-gay advocate get taken down a peg when clearly their actions or lifestyle are not what they portray to the public.

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