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Tesla unveils a battery to power your home, completely off grid

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Tesla unveils a battery to power your home, completely off grid

Old 05-01-15, 07:51 PM
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Tesla unveils a battery to power your home, completely off grid

I love it but you know the government will find some excuse to tax the ever loving shit out of it, this rendering any and all savings moot.

Tesla unveils a battery to power your home, completely off grid

CEO of Tesla Motors, Elon Musk, landed an official message unveiling the Powerwall, a battery designed to power your home. The message came at a convention center powered completely by renewable battery power.

The battery unit itself contains the same batteries present in the Tesla electric cars. The 7kWh unit will ship for $3,000, while the 10kWh unit will go for $3,500 (get the big one). They will store electricity from the grid or from solar and wind generators on site and if the grid goes down, they will continue to power your home indefinitely This feature makes them ideal for developing nations that are leap-frogging power grids completely.

Musk refers to it as changing the "entire energy infrastructure of the world."

The batteries will begin shipping over the summer of 2015 and mount on the wall, looking like this



Here is a clip from the initial release

<iframe width="640" height="360" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/KXWHqjQNJ5Y?feature=player_embedded" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

http://www.bbc.com/news/technology-32545081

Image Credit: http://www.wired.com/2015/05/tesla-batteries/
Old 05-01-15, 08:19 PM
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Re: Tesla unveils a battery to power your home, completely off grid

Showing just a big white box was not enough. Lets see the solar panels and the wiring. I want more details.
Old 05-01-15, 08:34 PM
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Re: Tesla unveils a battery to power your home, completely off grid

Biggest upside to this is that it is going to fuck the power companies. Both major ones here in Phoenix metro are now raising rates for people with solar panels, essentially making up what they are losing from those customers using less electricity.
Old 05-01-15, 09:34 PM
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Re: Tesla unveils a battery to power your home, completely off grid

Yea. I'd rather see SRP get into the solar panel business, than screw with the rates of those using solar.

Most people getting solar are more focused on the environmental impact than the rates. The day solar actually saves people money is the day real change happens.
Old 05-01-15, 09:45 PM
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Re: Tesla unveils a battery to power your home, completely off grid

As stated already, the government will never yield control.
Land of the free?
Lol !
Old 05-01-15, 10:03 PM
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Re: Tesla unveils a battery to power your home, completely off grid

Lets look at what the government can do...

1. They can find a safety issue with the setup. From there, they can tax and thus regulate everything.

2. They can tax the crap out of municipal usage.

3. They can force regulation and taxation of related manufacturing materials (domestic and international taxation).
Old 05-01-15, 11:20 PM
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Re: Tesla unveils a battery to power your home, completely off grid

I'd be more concerned about local power companies than government taxation. But that's just me.
Old 05-01-15, 11:30 PM
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Re: Tesla unveils a battery to power your home, completely off grid

Does that price include install? I've seen some whole house generators cost as much to install as the unit itself.
Old 05-01-15, 11:57 PM
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Re: Tesla unveils a battery to power your home, completely off grid

Originally Posted by PopcornTreeCt View Post
I'd be more concerned about local power companies than government taxation. But that's just me.
You're forgetting that the government is pure evil and businesses are all sweetness and light.
Old 05-02-15, 02:09 AM
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Re: Tesla unveils a battery to power your home, completely off grid

In several articles I've read, it appears that Solar City (which is run by Elon Musk's cousin and Musk sits on the board) is working with local utilities to balance grid loads, and there will be industrial sized versions of these batteries specifically for utilities.
Old 05-02-15, 08:24 AM
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Re: Tesla unveils a battery to power your home, completely off grid

The 7kWh unit will ship for $3,000, while the 10kWh unit will go for $3,500 (get the big one).
Odd pricing. The 10kWh unit stores 43% more power, but only costs 17% more than the 7kWh unit.
Old 05-02-15, 08:38 AM
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Re: Tesla unveils a battery to power your home, completely off grid

Originally Posted by Troy Stiffler View Post
Lets look at what the government can do...

1. They can find a safety issue with the setup. From there, they can tax and thus regulate everything.

2. They can tax the crap out of municipal usage.

3. They can force regulation and taxation of related manufacturing materials (domestic and international taxation).
Well, the power companies will give buckets of money to the government to make them do all this anyhow...
Old 05-02-15, 10:45 AM
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Re: Tesla unveils a battery to power your home, completely off grid

Originally Posted by Deftones View Post
Biggest upside to this is that it is going to fuck the power companies. Both major ones here in Phoenix metro are now raising rates for people with solar panels, essentially making up what they are losing from those customers using less electricity.
I'm not justifying raising rates, but ...

There is a popular misconception that using onsite (or distributed) generation means you are of no burden on the grid and should not have to pay anything to the electric company. If you use net-metering (i.e., you want to put power back in to the grid) you still use the utility's infrastructure and services. Unless you are 100% self-sufficient and are completely disconnected, you still use the infrastructure and services.

As for the rest of us, the more customers our utility has, the better off we are. Although most people look at their rates and usage (variable costs), the bulk of a utility company's costs are capital investments (fixed costs). More customers mean more people to share the spread of those investment costs. For example, a substation costs what a substation costs - variable usage does not factor in.
Old 05-02-15, 10:48 AM
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Re: Tesla unveils a battery to power your home, completely off grid

My electricity rates haven't been too bad here, but I get fucked on Sewage costs.

Still, I think this thing sounds awesome.
Old 05-02-15, 12:45 PM
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Re: Tesla unveils a battery to power your home, completely off grid

Originally Posted by Abob Teff View Post
I'm not justifying raising rates, but ...

There is a popular misconception that using onsite (or distributed) generation means you are of no burden on the grid and should not have to pay anything to the electric company. If you use net-metering (i.e., you want to put power back in to the grid) you still use the utility's infrastructure and services. Unless you are 100% self-sufficient and are completely disconnected, you still use the infrastructure and services.

As for the rest of us, the more customers our utility has, the better off we are. Although most people look at their rates and usage (variable costs), the bulk of a utility company's costs are capital investments (fixed costs). More customers mean more people to share the spread of those investment costs. For example, a substation costs what a substation costs - variable usage does not factor in.
I realize they are still using the grid. But the problem here in AZ is people with solar often generate more power than they use, which means it goes back to the utility companies. So the utilities not only get the benefit of that, but then they also get increased rates paid to them by the solar users. It doesn't make a bunch of sense, because the utility comes out on the positive side of both of those. I get that people need to pay for the infrastructure, but both utilities here are specifically targeting solar users only to generate revenue.
Old 05-02-15, 04:26 PM
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Re: Tesla unveils a battery to power your home, completely off grid

Deftones, admittedly I don't know enough about the specifics of this case, but it sounds similar to energy efficiency mandates. In some states the utilities have been granted the ability to offset this lost revenue through rates while other states have said too bad. This happened in Missouri. One of the major utilities there rolled out energy efficiency incentives then canceled them when their regulatory agency wouldn't let them offset this.

AZ is probably much different than Illinois ... Solar users around here rarely produce more than they use. I suppose I should clarify that scenario though ... Are you talking net usage (i.e., total for the month) or just peak usage?
Old 05-03-15, 01:11 PM
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Re: Tesla unveils a battery to power your home, completely off grid

Originally Posted by Abob Teff View Post
I'm not justifying raising rates, but ...

There is a popular misconception that using onsite (or distributed) generation means you are of no burden on the grid and should not have to pay anything to the electric company. If you use net-metering (i.e., you want to put power back in to the grid) you still use the utility's infrastructure and services. Unless you are 100% self-sufficient and are completely disconnected, you still use the infrastructure and services.

As for the rest of us, the more customers our utility has, the better off we are. Although most people look at their rates and usage (variable costs), the bulk of a utility company's costs are capital investments (fixed costs). More customers mean more people to share the spread of those investment costs. For example, a substation costs what a substation costs - variable usage does not factor in.
What your essentially saying: is our Customers no longer want to purchase our product the way we want to sell it to them.

You might to check with the record and movie industry and see how that is working out for them.
Old 05-03-15, 01:49 PM
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Re: Tesla unveils a battery to power your home, completely off grid

Originally Posted by Sdallnct View Post
What your essentially saying: is our Customers no longer want to purchase our product the way we want to sell it to them.

You might to check with the record and movie industry and see how that is working out for them.
While that's true, people don't have to buy movies or music. The same isn't exactly true for electricity.
Old 05-03-15, 06:31 PM
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Re: Tesla unveils a battery to power your home, completely off grid

Originally Posted by Sdallnct View Post
What your essentially saying: is our Customers no longer want to purchase our product the way we want to sell it to them.

You might to check with the record and movie industry and see how that is working out for them.
No, not exactly. Actually, that's not even remotely close. I'm saying that a person who wants to go off the grid to avoid paying for utilities should go off the grid. But if they do, they should not expect to have backup from the grid if their system fails (or to have access to sell back any excess). That means you either remain a customer and pay your share or you disconnect completely.

The business models for utilities and entertainment are so vastly different that it would be hard to make an accurate comparison. The closest you could get is by saying you and your kids put on a re-enactment of the Avengers: Age of Ultron in your backyard so you shouldn't have to pay for the family to get into the theater to see the movie. You created an alternate product, but still want the benefits of the original without paying.

I'm not against alternative energy. I think distributed generation probably is the wave of the future and this battery may be the lynchpin. What bugs me though is people who don't realize "cheap" renewable energy still requires expensive infrastructure to support it. I'm amazed at how cheap this battery is. I'm thinking it will actually be more useful to people who can take advantage of time-of-use pricing ... Charge the battery at night when prices are extremely low and run off of it the rest of the day. (Load shifting.)
Old 05-04-15, 08:40 AM
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Re: Tesla unveils a battery to power your home, completely off grid

^^ disagree. If I use your services, I'll pay for them. It's time all industries start to look for renewable energies and adopt a strategy make infrastructure changes a part of their forward plan. Sucking up resources and thinking "old school" combined with the exponential growth of our population is going to leave our grand-kids straight up f*&ked.
Old 05-04-15, 09:52 AM
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Re: Tesla unveils a battery to power your home, completely off grid

Does anyone know the true size of the power wall? I watched the you tube vid last night (most of it) but I couldn't get a feel of the true size of the thing.

It's very interesting and I'm all for cleaner energy for sure.
Old 05-04-15, 10:22 AM
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Re: Tesla unveils a battery to power your home, completely off grid

Originally Posted by Rob V View Post
Sucking up resources and thinking "old school" combined with the exponential growth of our population is going to leave our grand-kids straight up f*&ked.
The hardest part is that half the population are unwordly science deniers. One look at Beijing's air quality shows us where private business will take us if left without rules to combat pollution. But most people are too dumb to look at that. And now there's a subculture of people who think the EPA and forward-thinking energy is evil and dangerous.
Old 05-04-15, 02:33 PM
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Re: Tesla unveils a battery to power your home, completely off grid

Interesting take.

Our view:

We see the current and near-term size of the target market for the Powerwall product line extremely limited. The future of the Powerwall product line is highly dependent on utility and PUC actions. We believe that utility self-interest will lead to reduction in arbitrage opportunities over time unless utilities are incentivized to behave differently.

...considering the size of the market, we find the excitement behind the launch more of hype and hope than reality.
Old 05-04-15, 04:10 PM
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Re: Tesla unveils a battery to power your home, completely off grid

Originally Posted by Deftones View Post
Biggest upside to this is that it is going to fuck the power companies. Both major ones here in Phoenix metro are now raising rates for people with solar panels, essentially making up what they are losing from those customers using less electricity.
We have a publicly owned utility, which makes that nicer. But WA did do some things like waive sales tax on hybrids/electrics, and then try to add a fee for those cars for what they are losing in tax revenue at the gas pump.

Originally Posted by Josh-da-man View Post
You're forgetting that the government is pure evil and businesses are all sweetness and light.
You're forgetting that both are pure evil.
Old 05-04-15, 05:59 PM
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The two aware rapidly becoming hard to distinguish.

Originally Posted by Troy Stiffler View Post
The hardest part is that half the population are unwordly science deniers. One look at Beijing's air quality shows us where private business will take us if left without rules to combat pollution. But most people are too dumb to look at that. And now there's a subculture of people who think the EPA and forward-thinking energy is evil and dangerous.
While I have no doubt that there are screwy science deniers out there, I'd imagine w lot of his has to do with knowing the environmental effects and simply not caring as long as they can profit from what they do. My father is a hardcore global warming denier, and I think that more than anything, it's because it would require us to restrict the market in some fashion. When the government interferes with business in an way, it's "socialism." The market is magic, and it will solve all of our problems if we leave it to its own devices.

Last edited by hanshotfirst1138; 05-06-15 at 01:11 AM.

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