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Old 05-27-13, 12:16 AM   #26
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Re: Consumer Reports gives the Tesla Model S the highest rating of any car in the mag

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Originally Posted by Mabuse View Post
That's amazing. Link doesn't have the full article. Of course customer satisfaction can't be taken into account yet since the cars are all new. I'm warry of fancy gizmos like self opening doors and high tech touchscreens. They often prove unreliable and are expensive to fix. Also, some drivers actually prefer things to be more analog (or at least feel analog since most everything is computer initiated in a modern car). I like chronomoters, knobs, buttons, and switches. It makes me feel like I've having a more "real" driving experience. Digital speedometers suck.
Self-opening car doors? I hadn't heard of those. Wow, have we really gotten that lazy? I can just see a meme of the guy from Dawson's Creek crying "I wanted to go out, but I have to open the car door."

I suppose some disabled people may find it helpful. But for the vast majority of us, it seems ridiculous.
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Old 05-28-13, 09:06 AM   #27
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Re: Consumer Reports gives the Tesla Model S the highest rating of any car in the mag

Yeah, I think most people think it's totally ridiculous in every Supermarket and store for the last 35 years.

Self-opening doors, just ridiculous.
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Old 05-28-13, 06:56 PM   #28
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Re: Consumer Reports gives the Tesla Model S the highest rating of any car in the mag

The point is, all those needless frills like self-opening doors on cars add needlessly to the cost and complexity of the whole thing. Something more to break down, a repair that's going to be very hard to do yourself... So take it into the dealer for a 500% markup and an ass-raping because the parts aren't readilly available, etc. A captive market, all in the name of coolness, and "brand recognitition." Right.

Hey, the concept of an electric / hybird car is the way for us to lessen our dependence on the nemesis that is Big Oil. I own a hybrid car... But, doing this way (max bells&whistles is for all the wrong reasons. It defeats the purpose. Owning an electric car should not be a status symbol or a "coolness trend", but a way to show some level-headed sense about self-sufficiency...

Musk could make a common-man version of the S for $20 to $30k. It would require some loss of capital "for the greater good." I think they've even suggested that they might. At that time, electric cars might become a feasible idea. Even then, electricity costs will continue to skyrocket...
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Old 05-28-13, 07:07 PM   #29
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Re: Consumer Reports gives the Tesla Model S the highest rating of any car in the mag

Their testing methodologies are woefully out of date and targeted at the most brain-dead consumer. Consumer Reports is not a reliable source of product/item ratings.
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Old 05-28-13, 07:36 PM   #30
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Re: Consumer Reports gives the Tesla Model S the highest rating of any car in the mag

Must agree that consumer's reports is a laugh. Have not read it since the 1980's when they told me that a certain kitchen stove was "BEST" because the knobs were the most easily readable. Sometimes they can be SO SILLY!!
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Old 05-30-13, 11:34 AM   #31
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Re: Consumer Reports gives the Tesla Model S the highest rating of any car in the mag

I'm surprised Consumer Reports still exists, considering its function is now duplicated on thousands of websites, online user reviews, etc. Granted those sources aren't always trustworthy, but it's usually pretty easy to spot the planted reviews or to weed out the idiots who give something a bad review because they didn't read the instructions.
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Old 05-30-13, 11:44 AM   #32
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Re: Consumer Reports gives the Tesla Model S the highest rating of any car in the mag

I like the commercials where people blindly back out of their driveways and are alerted by motion sensors that there's something behind them. Really? You have your whole family in your car and you can't be bothered to check your fucking mirrors before you back out? You have to rely on technology for that?
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Old 05-30-13, 11:47 AM   #33
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Re: Consumer Reports gives the Tesla Model S the highest rating of any car in the mag

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Originally Posted by Drexl View Post
Self-opening car doors? I hadn't heard of those. Wow, have we really gotten that lazy? I can just see a meme of the guy from Dawson's Creek crying "I wanted to go out, but I have to open the car door."

I suppose some disabled people may find it helpful. But for the vast majority of us, it seems ridiculous.
The doors don't auto open, the door handles auto extend when you touch them, and then retract back into the car with you drive. You still have to open the door.
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Old 05-30-13, 02:14 PM   #34
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Re: Consumer Reports gives the Tesla Model S the highest rating of any car in the mag

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The doors don't auto open, the door handles auto extend when you touch them, and then retract back into the car with you drive. You still have to open the door.
It depends what you mean by self-opening. The doors don't swing open and close under power, but the door latch mechanisms are both mechanically and electrically activated. They open mechanically from the inside so that passengers can get out in case of power loss. The exterior handles are not mechanically connected, but are actually sensors which tell the computer to electronically unlatch the door.

One of the early problems was that the handles could get wet and continuously send a faulty signal. Because the computer will not unlatch a door electronically unless the car is in park, the fault was usually noticed when people got to their destination, put the car in park, and then heard one of their doors pop open by itself.
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Old 05-31-13, 10:51 AM   #35
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Re: Consumer Reports gives the Tesla Model S the highest rating of any car in the mag

It was cool seeing one when they were scarce but now I see them everyday in Santa Clara. Seems like a lot of people around here are buying one. It's a good thing the company is nearby if any real problems occur.
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Old 08-21-13, 12:15 AM   #36
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Re: Consumer Reports gives the Tesla Model S the highest rating of any car in the mag

http://autos.yahoo.com/blogs/motoram...145420083.html

Tesla Model S scores highest marks ever on U.S. crash testing

August 20, 2013

As much as electric car builders hail their vehicles as the future of transportation, one question they couldn't answer fully was just how well their vehicles would withstand a crash. Automakers have spent decades finessing their chassis; what happened when an engine-less vehicle went head-on into a barrier wasn't clear, and as the post crash-test smoldering of a Chevy Volt demonstrated, the batteries posed new challenges.

Leave it to Tesla to provide the first hard evidence — with data from U.S. government tests showing the Model S sedan may be the most crash-proof passenger vehicle on the road today.

Normally, Tesla's garnering of five stars on the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration's crash tests wouldn't be a headline; most new cars and trucks get at least five stars in frontal crash protection and four stars in side impact. But the Model S did better than that; it got five stars in all tests; front, side impact, pole and rollover prevention. Plus, the scores of its frontal, side and rollover test combined were higher than any car ever crashed by NHTSA — and according to Tesla, at one point the testers nearly broke their equipment trying to damage the Model S.

Tesla chairman and co-founder Elon Musk says the test results reflect the company's strategy that it couldn't afford lesser results as a start-up automaker selling electric cars. Safety "was our number one priority," Musk told Yahoo! Autos, "and more important than aesthetics or performance or even range, was to maximize safety to as great as extent as possible...It's more important for us than for other cars."

For its front crash tests, NHTSA runs vehicles into a wall at 35 mph. Most cars use a combination of crumple zones — often pieces of their steel frames that look like accordion bellows — air bags and engine mounts that send the motor underneath the car to protect passengers. Since the Model S has no engine up front, it has more space for crumple zones in its aluminum chassis. In the side impact tests, which NHTSA crashes both a moveable barrier and a pole into the vehicle, Tesla says it reinforced the side rails with special aluminum slices that either stop the car or shear off a pole.

Musk says the battery pack of the Model S also becomes an advantage in a side crash, since its aluminum honeycomb frame can absorb far more energy than the sides of most other vehicles which are prone to buckling in pole impacts.

During debates between the auto industry and safety advocates last decade, automakers resisted attempts to make roofs that withstood up to three times the vehicle's weight as a protection in rollover accidents; NHTSA finally set a rule requiring that standard which will phase in through 2017, and even then still allow some crush space. The Model S withstood up to four times its weight with no crush, and the machine testing it at an independent contractor failed before it could apply more force. And because of its low-slung battery pack, the Model S carries far more of its weight closer to the ground, meaning it's harder to get shiny-side down in the first place.

As for the batteries: Tesla says the pack had no issues before, during or after the crash. Musk says the grounding of Boeing's 787 airliner over lithium-ion battery packs has only raised concerns about electric cars using them on the road, concerns he's keen to dispel: "Throughout all our crash tests, throughout all similar incidents with vehicles on the road, never once has there been a fire."

NHTSA's not the only test Tesla will have to pass. European safety regulators use different standards, including one for reducing injuries to pedestrians stuck by cars; Musk says once again the Model S's lack of an engine will help, and that its hood has been designed like "a painful trampoline" for just such cases. Other luxury automakers have rolled out more active safety features like lane departure warnings, which Musk says Tesla will match but only so far, because the results "tends to be convenience rather than actual safety enhancement." And Musk says future Teslas — the upcoming Model X SUV and a smaller car — will also be designed to get five stars on all major tests.

"Our aspiration is to get zero deaths or permanent serious injuries in our cars, and so far things have worked out well," Musk said. "True zero is hard in that respect after you get enough vehicles on the road – there are a certain number of people who get killed every year on vending machines, so you have someone driving off a cliff or hitting a freight train...We'll try to do everything humanely possible."

While safety used to be a strong selling point for automakers, tech advancements had made it less of a competitive advantage; even independent testers like the Insurance Institute for Highway Safety have to toughen their crash procedures every several years. Tesla's plan to sell about 20,000 Model S sedans in North America this year was running slightly ahead of schedule before the crash data came to light, but having the safest car on the road will make a few more potential buyers comfortable behind the wheel.
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Old 08-21-13, 01:42 AM   #37
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Re: Consumer Reports gives the Tesla Model S the highest rating of any car in the mag

As soon as one of these get down in affordability I will buy one. Until then, I will just keep buying Tesla stock.
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Old 08-21-13, 02:16 AM   #38
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Re: Consumer Reports gives the Tesla Model S the highest rating of any car in the mag

My buddy test drove one last week and said it is an amazing car with a surprisingly mediocre interior.

We're getting a Tesla showroom/service center soon, I will be test driving one in my finest Sears suit.
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Old 08-21-13, 05:01 PM   #39
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Re: Consumer Reports gives the Tesla Model S the highest rating of any car in the mag

Tesla are masters of political patronage and continue to siphon off lots of taxpayer dough. Remember that despite the fact that they paid off the loan, each one sold pays off a fairly massive customer incentive. Rewarding buyers of a rich man's toy is probably not the best use of public funds.

Despite all of that, I honestly hope that Tesla can get up to scale and become a mainstream auto builder. Despite how it was achieved, it's hard to argue with the results: an innovative and genuinely viable product.
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Old 08-22-13, 04:42 PM   #40
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Re: Consumer Reports gives the Tesla Model S the highest rating of any car in the mag

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Tesla are masters of political patronage and continue to siphon off lots of taxpayer dough. Remember that despite the fact that they paid off the loan, each one sold pays off a fairly massive customer incentive. Rewarding buyers of a rich man's toy is probably not the best use of public funds.

Despite all of that, I honestly hope that Tesla can get up to scale and become a mainstream auto builder. Despite how it was achieved, it's hard to argue with the results: an innovative and genuinely viable product.
Meh, I think you answered your own concerns. Meaning if successful, I'm good with them doing what the goverment allows.

The individual incentive is about $7,500 last I heard. A nice chunk, but I'd hardly call it massive.

More of a concern to me is California (not far behind to Detroit) is giving massive tax breaks to Telsa to build the new plant there. California in its current state should not be allowed to do that. The only exception would be, if allowing these tax breaks will in fact generation MORE taxes from other sources than the breaks they are giving. But I doubt there was such a study done, or that it would show such results.
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Old 08-23-13, 11:37 AM   #41
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Re: Consumer Reports gives the Tesla Model S the highest rating of any car in the mag

http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/nightlin...2349.html?vp=1

Why Texas Bans the Sale of Tesla Cars

August 22, 2013

When you’re about to compete in your first electric car race, brace yourself for the sound … of silence. But don’t let those quiet engines fool you because these days, quiet means fast.

With every major car company looking for a share of the booming electric car market, the competition to go faster and further for cheaper has become an all-out war. Detroit, Japan and Germany are all represented, but right now, an unlikely newcomer is getting top honors: the Tesla Model S.

It’s being hailed as a game changer. It’s the first electric car to win Motor Trend’s Car of the Year; an unprecedented 99 out of 100 rating from Consumer Reports; and now, according to the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration, it’s also the safest car ever.

But if the Model S really is the car of the future, then why has Texas banned its sales in the state and why are lawmakers in several other states trying to do the same?

To answer that, first you need to meet Tesla CEO Elon Musk. He plans on opening 50 new Tesla stores in the next year. And taking a page from the Apple playbook, Musk is selling his product directly to consumers. No hard sell. No commission for employees. And uniform prices at every store.

“We actually train people to educate,” explained Musk. “We always wanted to be a really low-key kind of friendly environment, where we're not constantly trying to close deals.”

That’s a dig at the traditional middlemen in the car-buying experience: the car dealers. Musk wants to cut them out completely. He thinks customers don’t like them and that dealers are prejudiced against electric cars.

“It takes them at least twice as much effort to sell someone an electric car and to educate them as to why an electric car is good,” said Musk. “And so if we were to go through the traditional dealer path, the result would be a disaster.”

So Musk is declaring war on car dealers, but car dealers are also declaring war on Musk. They have already successfully booted him out of Texas and there is anti-Tesla legislation pending in North Carolina, Colorado and Virginia.

“This happens all the time,” said Bill Wolters, the president of the Texas Automobile Dealers Association. “Someone wants an exception to the franchise laws. If we made an exception for everybody that showed up in the legislature, before long the integrity of the entire franchise system is in peril.”

The outcome of the battle remains to be seen, but it’s just one of many standing in Musk’s way of the Model S becoming a mainstream success. For all the hype, only 20,000 have been sold.
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Old 08-23-13, 02:36 PM   #42
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Re: Consumer Reports gives the Tesla Model S the highest rating of any car in the mag

Quote:
car dealers. Musk wants to cut them out completely. He thinks customers don’t like them
He's right.

It's foolish for car dealers to fight this with legislation.

People will just buy the car out of state.

Tesla's sales model is inevitable. Dealerships make money on service and electric cars require very little service, so there's no room for traditional dealers to make money selling electric cars.
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Old 08-23-13, 02:45 PM   #43
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Re: Consumer Reports gives the Tesla Model S the highest rating of any car in the mag

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He's right.

It's foolish for car dealers to fight this with legislation.

People will just buy the car out of state.

Tesla's sales model is inevitable. Dealerships make money on service and electric cars require very little service, so there's no room for traditional dealers to make money selling electric cars.
Yup, and they do sell Telsa's in Texas. Well of course they comply with law. However they operate two showrooms (so far) in Texas. Here you can look at the cars, ask about them, learn and even discuss options. They just can't talk price. If you want to buy one, you simply call a dealer in another state. You can go it or they can truck it to you.

Last I heard there are about 400 registered in Texas.

There are two bills that will be reviewed to allow them to truly sell them.
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Old 08-23-13, 03:25 PM   #44
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Re: Consumer Reports gives the Tesla Model S the highest rating of any car in the mag

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He's right.
He's 1000% right.

Another dinosaur that is going to go away but that is still fighting tooth and nail to hang on is the traditional liquor multi-tier distribution system.
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Old 08-23-13, 03:29 PM   #45
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Re: Consumer Reports gives the Tesla Model S the highest rating of any car in the mag

We don't like fighting commissioned sales men to purchase a vehicle? Where the hell did they get that idea?
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Old 08-23-13, 03:41 PM   #46
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Re: Consumer Reports gives the Tesla Model S the highest rating of any car in the mag

Honestly, I found both the sales people I have dealt with on my last three new car purchases to be pretty easy to deal with. It's the sales managers and the finance managers that can be complete douchebags.

The last one, where we got my wife a new car, was from one of those places that just puts a price on the car, take it or leave it, kinds of dealerships, and that was actually pretty easy and low stress.
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Old 08-23-13, 04:57 PM   #47
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Re: Consumer Reports gives the Tesla Model S the highest rating of any car in the mag

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The last one, where we got my wife a new car, was from one of those places that just puts a price on the car, take it or leave it, kinds of dealerships, and that was actually pretty easy and low stress.
That's just it. There are already so many "non-traditional" non-salesman options. AAA Guranteed Low Price and that kind of thing.
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Old 08-23-13, 09:50 PM   #48
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Re: Consumer Reports gives the Tesla Model S the highest rating of any car in the mag

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“This happens all the time,” said Bill Wolters, the president of the Texas Automobile Dealers Association. “Someone wants an exception to the franchise laws. If we made an exception for everybody that showed up in the legislature, before long the integrity of the entire franchise system is in peril.”
Hey Billy Bob,

It's your same group of folks who have done the same Exception Yelling for decades when any competition comes into your state. Integrity in franchise laws? You must be smoking some seriously awesome weed.

Go do something somewhat productive: adjust those hilarious fucking horns on the hood of your massive SUV.

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Old 02-17-14, 03:22 PM   #49
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Re: Consumer Reports gives the Tesla Model S the highest rating of any car in the mag

The Apple Car? Genius, if you ask me. Apple is one of the few companies big enough to fight off big oil in the mass production of electric cars that people want.

Quote:
Tesla CEO Elon Musk Met With Apple Executives: Report

Two of the world's most innovative companies may have discussed working together or even joining forces, according to a San Francisco Chronicle report.

Tesla CEO Elon Musk met with Adrian Pierca, Apple’s head of mergers and acquisitions, last spring as analysts were suggesting Apple acquire the electronic carmaker, the Chronicle reported Sunday, citing an unnamed source.

“While a megadeal has yet to emerge (for all of its cash, Apple still plays hardball on valuation), such a high-level meeting between the two Silicon Valley giants involving their top dealmakers suggests Apple was very much interested in buying the electric car pioneer,” the report said.

Apple didn’t immediately respond to a request for comment from The Huffington Post. Tesla declined to comment.

Apple and its CEO Tim Cook spent much of last year fighting off concerns from analysts and investors that the company had lost its innovative edge. While the company added new technologies to many of its products in recent years, Apple hasn’t launched a new product in a new category since 2010, when the iPad first came out, according to USA Today.

Acquiring Tesla could ease some of those worries. Nothing says “IT’S THE FUTURE” quite like a car that runs on electricity with a fancy touchscreen that tells drivers where they can charge up next. And Musk, a co-founder of PayPal, has become somewhat of a Silicon Valley darling, unveiling ideas like the Hyperloop -- an idea for an elevated transit system that could get people from San Francisco to Los Angeles in just 30 minutes -- to much fanfare.


Andaan Ahmad, an analyst at German bank Berenberg, said as much when he suggested Apple buy Tesla in an open letter to Cook in October. Ahmad argued Apple needs “an out of the box” move into a new market, according to CNNMoney. Otherwise, he wrote, Apple’s future will only be about how much money the company can continue to squeeze out of the iPhone.

In addition, if Apple acquired Tesla, the tech giant would get the added benefit of bringing an innovative leader like Musk into the fold. "You could strike up a partnership and obtain a new iconic partner to lead Apple's innovation drive," Ahmad wrote.

Apple isn't the only tech giant to explore the auto world. Google has a project in the works for driverless cars that would keep people safer on the road.

Musk has signaled in the past that an Apple buy isn't out of the realm of possibility. "They do have a lot of cash," he told Bloomberg in an interview in May.
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Old 02-17-14, 03:35 PM   #50
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Re: Consumer Reports gives the Tesla Model S the highest rating of any car in the mag

Merger or collaboration yes. acquisition no way.
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