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Phoenix Man Jailed for Hosting Bible Study!

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Phoenix Man Jailed for Hosting Bible Study!

Old 07-11-12, 12:37 PM
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Re: Phoenix Man Jailed for Hosting Bible Study!

Originally Posted by dvdjunkie32 View Post
I think that site is just um.... a tad biased, perhaps?

A quote from that site. "However, in recent years as same-sex couples have aggressively asserted their “rights” in the courts, there has been an unmistakable trend toward the expansion of the legal privileges of same-sex couples at the expense of the religious liberties of people who morally oppose the legitimization of same-sex relationships.

Vote Yes on Proposition 8 to preserve religious liberties and freedom of expression."

Yes.. how dare people want to enjoy the same "rights" afforded to other citizens of this country. How do they take themselves seriously? Vote Yes to preserve religious liberties and freedom of expression. :headshake:
Old 07-11-12, 12:43 PM
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Re: Phoenix Man Jailed for Hosting Bible Study!

Originally Posted by dvdjunkie32 View Post
Even that 'source' indicates a fine in Canada (no prison) and a prison sentence in Sweden that was thrown out by the supreme court.
Old 07-11-12, 12:46 PM
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Re: Phoenix Man Jailed for Hosting Bible Study!

Originally Posted by dvdjunkie32 View Post
The government went after him before he constructed the building.
Really? When? Where does Michael Salman (since he is a source you trust) say the government didn't let him have people in his living room to pray?
Old 07-11-12, 12:47 PM
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Re: Phoenix Man Jailed for Hosting Bible Study!

Originally Posted by andicus View Post
Even that 'source' indicates a fine in Canada (no prison) and a prison sentence in Sweden that was thrown out by the supreme court.
The Canadian fine was overturned on appeal, as well.
Old 07-11-12, 01:43 PM
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Re: Phoenix Man Jailed for Hosting Bible Study!

Don't worry. This is just one battle in our struggle against our Christian overlords!!!11 Muwahahahahaaa!!!
Old 07-11-12, 02:09 PM
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Re: Phoenix Man Jailed for Hosting Bible Study!

This is moronic. If I live in a residential area and my neighbor builds a poll barn and starts having services I'd be upset too. It would have nothing to do with religious freedoms, but all the noise and traffic and other crap that having a large number of people bring.
Old 07-11-12, 02:13 PM
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Re: Phoenix Man Jailed for Hosting Bible Study!

Originally Posted by dvdjunkie32 View Post
Bahahahaha!
Old 07-11-12, 02:28 PM
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Re: Phoenix Man Jailed for Hosting Bible Study!

Originally Posted by Navinabob View Post
You are entitled to your own opinion, but you are not entitled to to your own set of facts. The version of events you describe did not exist in this reality. Seriously, you are embarrassing yourself. Read the entire story.

Do it.

No more spouting BS until you do.

http://www.phoenixnewtimes.com/2008-...n-t-buying-it/

It's funny, going through a few pages of links there is a clear trend going on; the more religious the source article, the shorter the story is. It's almost as if the more facts you have to report, the less you can use it as a call to action for Christianity.

I read your article. I'm still skeptical. Much of the article goes in depth into his background and criminal past which has ZERO bearing on the case at hand. This article says 70 people were showing up at the meeting. Other articles I read say it was 12-20, and the government said he couldn't have 12people meeting in his home. Which is it?

Can you prove that the city government first came down on him after he constructed the large building? Does he promote his church open to the public? Why did the city send him a memo stating that he could NOT have Bible studies in his private residence? That has nothing to do with his building, the cross or the sign. That is the particular issue that rubs me the wrong way.

Of course, I shouldn't be surprise that you come down on the side against the Christian. You're as predictable as sunrise.
Old 07-11-12, 02:35 PM
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Re: Phoenix Man Jailed for Hosting Bible Study!

The problem here is that in your zeal to find Christian persecution, you're focusing only on the religious aspects and ignoring everything else. If this guy was building a roller disco or a brewery I don't think you'd be taking his side. Hell, if all the facts were exactly the same except that he was Muslim, I don't think you'd be taking his side.
Old 07-11-12, 02:35 PM
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Re: Phoenix Man Jailed for Hosting Bible Study!

He's funny. Poke him again!

I'm not anti-christian, I'm anti brainwashing.

Of course, with you, it probably only took a light rinse, but still...
Old 07-11-12, 02:36 PM
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Re: Phoenix Man Jailed for Hosting Bible Study!

Originally Posted by dvdjunkie32 View Post

Of course, I shouldn't be surprise that you come down on the side against the Christian.
At this point, I'm only against one or two Christians, and it ain't because they're Christian.
Old 07-11-12, 03:00 PM
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Re: Phoenix Man Jailed for Hosting Bible Study!

Well, there is some interesting stuff in that article, about how residential communities aren't supposed to be able to block churches from being built
Spoiler:
But the Phoenix city code, like many zoning codes, makes an exception for churches. They're permitted in residential neighborhoods like Salman's. Unlike many cities across the United States, Phoenix doesn't require churches to get a "conditional use" permit. Those permits, typically issued by city councils, require quality-of-life issues to be addressed and public officials to weigh in.

In Phoenix, churches simply have to go through the same reviews as new-home construction. It's a bureaucratic, not political, process. Not a simple as throwing up a shed, but still much less complicated than getting permission to build a strip mall.

In some ways, churches are even easier to build than new homes, thanks to the Religious Land Use and Institutionalized Person Act, or RLUIPA. Passed unanimously by Congress in 2000 and signed into law by President Bill Clinton, the law bars communities from enforcing any land-use regulation that puts a "substantial burden" on the expression of religious belief.

Eric Rassbach is the national litigation director for the Becket Fund, a Washington, D.C., nonprofit that helps churches exercise their rights under the federal law. Congress, he said, enacted RLUIPA because it believed that municipalities were too eager to listen to neighborhoods — and were needlessly blocking religious communities from building or gathering.

and it kind of sounds like the city is siding with the community to keep the church from going up, even though they aren't really supposed to do that. Yes, he had the wrong permit type, but he is working on getting the right one, and they are still trying to prevent him from building his church.

Of course, he doesn't have the money to build his church, so he's trying to egg the city on and get them to "supress his religious freedoms" so he can sue and force the city to pay for his church.
Not very Christian, imho.
Old 07-11-12, 03:05 PM
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Re: Phoenix Man Jailed for Hosting Bible Study!

@Joe, the problem isn't that they're siding with the community, its that they're siding with the fire marshall and their zoning practices. The barn he's thrown up doesn't have proper wiring nor a sprinkler system in place. As someone else mentioned earlier, if this article ended with a fire breaking out and killing a dozen people in his death trap of a pulpit, we wouldn't be having any argument at all as to whether or not he was being persecuted.
Old 07-11-12, 03:06 PM
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Re: Phoenix Man Jailed for Hosting Bible Study!

Originally Posted by dvdjunkie32 View Post
Other articles I read say it was 12-20, and the government said he couldn't have 12people meeting in his home. Which is it?
This is the part where you provide a link (from something other than a fanatic Christian site) that shows it was 12-20.

We won't hold our breath.
Old 07-11-12, 03:08 PM
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Re: Phoenix Man Jailed for Hosting Bible Study!

Originally Posted by Gilgamesh1082 View Post
@Joe, the problem isn't that they're siding with the community, its that they're siding with the fire marshall and their zoning practices. The barn he's thrown up doesn't have proper wiring nor a sprinkler system in place. As someone else mentioned earlier, if this article ended with a fire breaking out and killing a dozen people in his death trap of a pulpit, we wouldn't be having any argument at all as to whether or not he was being persecuted.
No silly, that would be God's will! They'd say He was working through this crackpot to eventually burn people to death and bring them home to him! Rejoice!
Old 07-11-12, 03:09 PM
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Re: Phoenix Man Jailed for Hosting Bible Study!

Originally Posted by Gilgamesh1082 View Post
@Joe, the problem isn't that they're siding with the community, its that they're siding with the fire marshall and their zoning practices. The barn he's thrown up doesn't have proper wiring nor a sprinkler system in place. As someone else mentioned earlier, if this article ended with a fire breaking out and killing a dozen people in his death trap of a pulpit, we wouldn't be having any argument at all as to whether or not he was being persecuted.
Did you read the article? I kinda skimmed it but I don't remember anything about him putting up a barn. He was doing some initial preaching in a SHED, which the neighbors called the fire marshall about a couple times. that's why he got the permit to build the church. From what I read of the article, he church hasn't been built yet (much) because he has no money.
Old 07-11-12, 03:13 PM
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Re: Phoenix Man Jailed for Hosting Bible Study!

Originally Posted by joeblow69 View Post
Did you read the article? I kinda skimmed it but I don't remember anything about him putting up a barn. He was doing some initial preaching in a SHED, which the neighbors called the fire marshall about a couple times. that's why he got the permit to build the church. From what I read of the article, he church hasn't been built yet (much) because he has no money.
Looks like a barn to me?
Originally Posted by bunkaroo View Post
Map of the good pastor's property based on what he posted on the above link:

<iframe width="425" height="350" frameborder="0" scrolling="no" marginheight="0" marginwidth="0" src="http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&amp;source=s_q&amp;hl=en&amp;geocode=&amp;q=7601+N.+31st+Ave+Phoenix,+Arizona+85051&amp;aq= &amp;sll=37.0625,-95.677068&amp;sspn=34.176059,86.572266&amp;t=h&amp;ie=UTF8&amp;hq=&amp;hnear=7601+N+31st+Ave,+Phoeni x,+Arizona+85051&amp;ll=33.547936,-112.125027&amp;spn=0.002213,0.002285&amp;z=18&amp;iwloc=A&amp;output=embed"></iframe><br /><small><a href="http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&amp;source=embed&amp;hl=en&amp;geocode=&amp;q=7601+N.+31st+Ave+Phoenix,+Arizona+85051&amp;a q=&amp;sll=37.0625,-95.677068&amp;sspn=34.176059,86.572266&amp;t=h&amp;ie=UTF8&amp;hq=&amp;hnear=7601+N+31st+Ave,+Phoeni x,+Arizona+85051&amp;ll=33.547936,-112.125027&amp;spn=0.002213,0.002285&amp;z=18&amp;iwloc=A" style="color:#0000FF;text-align:left">View Larger Map</a></small>
Old 07-11-12, 03:26 PM
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Re: Phoenix Man Jailed for Hosting Bible Study!

Don't barns have rounded tops? I don't see anything that looks like that. Regardless, what I got out of the article, is the guy is trying to get an actual permit to build an actual church on his property. His neighbors don't want him to do that because 1) he's looney, and 2) it would ruin their property values. It sounds to me like the law says those aren't good enough reasons to prevent someone from building a church.
Old 07-11-12, 03:31 PM
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Re: Phoenix Man Jailed for Hosting Bible Study!

Originally Posted by Mrs. Danger View Post
He's funny. Poke him again!

I'm not anti-christian, I'm anti brainwashing.

Of course, with you, it probably only took a light rinse, but still...
In other words, you have nothing intelligent to add to the conversation. I find atheists tend to resort to insults as a last resort.
Old 07-11-12, 03:32 PM
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Re: Phoenix Man Jailed for Hosting Bible Study!

I find you tend to make sweeping insulting and demeaning generalizations about atheists.
Old 07-11-12, 03:36 PM
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Re: Phoenix Man Jailed for Hosting Bible Study!

I find it hard to understand the appeal of collard greens.
Old 07-11-12, 03:44 PM
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Re: Phoenix Man Jailed for Hosting Bible Study!

Originally Posted by dvdjunkie32 View Post
In other words, you have nothing intelligent to add to the conversation. I find atheists tend to resort to insults as a last resort.
I find some Christians tend to invent catastrophes where none exist. As for having nothing intelligent to add to the conversation ... the conversation STARTED OUT with no intelligence, so I don't know why you would expect any better.
Old 07-11-12, 03:44 PM
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Re: Phoenix Man Jailed for Hosting Bible Study!

Originally Posted by Dr Mabuse View Post
I find it hard to understand the appeal of collard greens.
I find it easy to concur with this. Mustard greens, likewise.
Old 07-11-12, 03:47 PM
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Re: Phoenix Man Jailed for Hosting Bible Study!

I find the nature of consciousness to be a worthwhile topic for reflection and consideration.
Old 07-11-12, 03:52 PM
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Re: Phoenix Man Jailed for Hosting Bible Study!

Originally Posted by Dr Mabuse View Post
I find it hard to understand the appeal of collard greens.
I find if you add pork to anything it becomes crazy delicious!

Last edited by covenant; 07-11-12 at 04:16 PM.

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