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Phoenix Man Jailed for Hosting Bible Study!

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Phoenix Man Jailed for Hosting Bible Study!

Old 07-11-12, 09:29 AM
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Re: Phoenix Man Jailed for Hosting Bible Study!

I agree that throwing him in jail is harsh, but it does take two to tango. He's been deliberately deceptive and provocative since this whole thing began.

And large parties get shut down by the cops ALL THE TIME.
Old 07-11-12, 09:30 AM
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Re: Phoenix Man Jailed for Hosting Bible Study!

Originally Posted by CRM114 View Post
Dude, 70% of Americans identify as Christians. You are delusional if you think that's going to change in 13 years.
In just the last few years, there has been a strong push to force Christians to accept same sex marriage so things can indeed change that quickly.

In Canada and Sweden, pastors are now fined and imprisoned if they dare speak out against homosexuality. It's not a far stretch to see that happening here.
Old 07-11-12, 09:30 AM
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Re: Phoenix Man Jailed for Hosting Bible Study!

Next time I have a big party, I'm going to install a permanent lit "Party Howse!" sign in the front yard. Then I'm going to build my party hall....I mean shed in the back yard that we can use. Don't tread on me, bro!
Old 07-11-12, 09:32 AM
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Re: Phoenix Man Jailed for Hosting Bible Study!

Originally Posted by dvdjunkie32 View Post
America circa 2025

Yes son, there used to be a day whenever people actually had the freedom to believe and teach what they wanted. It was called freedom of religion. But then evil took over the land, and Christian values of kindness and tolerance were exchanged for arrogance, intolerance and hate. But you can can still preach the gospel in your mind. They can't take that away from you.
Well, I believe the guy you're defending is a self-important asshole with no considerations for his neighbors who is doing exactly what Jesus told his disciples NOT to do when he said "Don't cast your pearls before swine."

He's making Christianity odious to them all. He's not showing kindness and tolerance, he's being a jerk.

Read your freaking Bible before you trot out this drivel.

Jesus ought to smack you!
Old 07-11-12, 09:32 AM
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Re: Phoenix Man Jailed for Hosting Bible Study!

Originally Posted by CRM114 View Post
Next time I have a big party, I'm going to install a permanent lit "Party Howse!" sign in the front yard. Then I'm going to build my party hall....I mean shed in the back yard that we can use. Don't tread on me, bro!
The government went after him before he constructed the building.
Old 07-11-12, 09:32 AM
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Re: Phoenix Man Jailed for Hosting Bible Study!

Originally Posted by dvdjunkie32 View Post
In just the last few years, there has been a strong push to force Christians to accept same sex marriage so things can indeed change that quickly.
Who is forcing them? What? Do you mean popular opinion, even among Christians, is changing?

Originally Posted by dvdjunkie32 View Post
In Canada and Sweden, pastors are now fined and imprisoned if they dare speak out against homosexuality. It's not a far stretch to see that happening here.
Yes, it is. By the way, do you have a link for Canada? Sweden couldn't be more irrelevant.
Old 07-11-12, 09:32 AM
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Re: Phoenix Man Jailed for Hosting Bible Study!

Originally Posted by dvdjunkie32 View Post
In just the last few years, there has been a strong push to force Christians to accept same sex marriage so things can indeed change that quickly.

In Canada and Sweden, pastors are now fined and imprisoned if they dare speak out against homosexuality. It's not a far stretch to see that happening here.
[Citation needed]
Old 07-11-12, 09:33 AM
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Re: Phoenix Man Jailed for Hosting Bible Study!

Originally Posted by dvdjunkie32 View Post
The government went after him before he constructed the building.
Was it before or after the light up Church sign in the front yard?

You know, up here in the northeast, where people keep religion to themselves, there are many beautiful vacant churches for sale. Some of them are older than the state of Arizona! Maybe this is an alternative to building a Churchshed in the backyard?
Old 07-11-12, 09:37 AM
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Re: Phoenix Man Jailed for Hosting Bible Study!

Here's the closest I found, where a preacher was shut down from preaching at a Gay Pride parade in Canada. The article is somewhat slanted, so who knows what actually occurred:

http://www.lifesitenews.com/news/rea...-at-gay-pride/
Old 07-11-12, 09:52 AM
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Re: Phoenix Man Jailed for Hosting Bible Study!

Originally Posted by dvdjunkie32 View Post
And let's not forget, this all started in 2007. The city informed them that Bible study was NOT PERMITTED in their living room. Are you perfectly fine with the government telling you what you can or can't do in your own house?
Considering this guy built a church in his backyard because he thinks zoning doesn't apply to him, I need to hear a bit more about these earlier "bible studies" the government was shutting down.

Believe me, cops have better things to do than shut down one specific bible study group, no matter how persecuted you think they are. There are probably hundreds of similar groups in the city meeting without incident. What makes THIS group deserving of attention? I guarantee there is FAR more to that story too.

Do you think he should be allowed to build a fully-functional church on his property regardless of the law? Do you think he was right to lie on his permit application? Why does he get to circumvent the rules?
Old 07-11-12, 10:11 AM
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Re: Phoenix Man Jailed for Hosting Bible Study!

Originally Posted by CRM114 View Post
Dude, 70% of Americans identify as Christians. You are delusional
You could have stopped right there.
Old 07-11-12, 10:28 AM
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Re: Phoenix Man Jailed for Hosting Bible Study!

Originally Posted by dvdjunkie32 View Post
Consistency and fairness is the problem in this case. Why isn't the government going after people that hold large parties? They are violating zoning laws just as well. Throwing him in jail seems a bit harse too.

And let's not forget, this all started in 2007. The city informed them that Bible study was NOT PERMITTED in their living room. Are you perfectly fine with the government telling you what you can or can't do in your own house?
You are entitled to your own opinion, but you are not entitled to to your own set of facts. The version of events you describe did not exist in this reality. Seriously, you are embarrassing yourself. Read the entire story.

Do it.

No more spouting BS until you do.

http://www.phoenixnewtimes.com/2008-...n-t-buying-it/

It's funny, going through a few pages of links there is a clear trend going on; the more religious the source article, the shorter the story is. It's almost as if the more facts you have to report, the less you can use it as a call to action for Christianity.
Old 07-11-12, 10:31 AM
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Re: Phoenix Man Jailed for Hosting Bible Study!

Originally Posted by Red Dog View Post
I don't know about nuclear weapons, but we would free up half of the bandwidth of this forum if we were all Christians or at least the same religion.
Not true. They only stick together when heathens are around. If they converted everyone, the various denominations would immediately begin playing "my Christ is better than your Christ. You're not a real Christian."

Of course, Jews and Muslims have the same denominational controversies. Not sure about others.
Old 07-11-12, 10:53 AM
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Re: Phoenix Man Jailed for Hosting Bible Study!

Here's the odd thing: the guy seems to have plenty of money (the new building cost $700,000). Not sure where's it's coming from, but I guess that's irrelevant. Why not buy or lease an existing building that has adequate parking and is not going to irritate neighbors?
Old 07-11-12, 10:54 AM
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Re: Phoenix Man Jailed for Hosting Bible Study!

Seriously, who here was ACTUALLY expecting Dvdjunkie to post a concise argument that used the facts and not include bias? At this point anyone who thinks that he will ever post objectively is more gullible than he is.
Old 07-11-12, 11:02 AM
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Re: Phoenix Man Jailed for Hosting Bible Study!

Originally Posted by Navinabob View Post
You are entitled to your own opinion, but you are not entitled to to your own set of facts. The version of events you describe did not exist in this reality. Seriously, you are embarrassing yourself. Read the entire story.

Do it.

No more spouting BS until you do.

http://www.phoenixnewtimes.com/2008-...n-t-buying-it/

It's funny, going through a few pages of links there is a clear trend going on; the more religious the source article, the shorter the story is. It's almost as if the more facts you have to report, the less you can use it as a call to action for Christianity.
Here's a good quote from page 4 of the article:

"People wouldn't have objected if he had 20 people coming over for Bible study," Andrea Julius says. "He was doing that previously, and nobody objected. But when he started this expansion plan, well, everybody became concerned."
So much for that persecution angle. I guess there's no time to click past the first page of an article when you're busy trying to find the next source of "persecution".
Old 07-11-12, 11:07 AM
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Re: Phoenix Man Jailed for Hosting Bible Study!

I liked it better when it was all about how Christians were being persecuted "overseas". You could tell stories of gruesome torture, and collect money so smuggle Bibles behind the Iron Curtain.
Old 07-11-12, 11:19 AM
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Re: Phoenix Man Jailed for Hosting Bible Study!

Originally Posted by dvdjunkie32 View Post

In Canada ... pastors are now fined and imprisoned if they dare speak out against homosexuality.
Cite?
Old 07-11-12, 11:22 AM
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Re: Phoenix Man Jailed for Hosting Bible Study!

Originally Posted by Groucho View Post
Here's the closest I found, where a preacher was shut down from preaching at a Gay Pride parade in Canada. The article is somewhat slanted, so who knows what actually occurred:

http://www.lifesitenews.com/news/rea...-at-gay-pride/
I guess I missed the part where he was fined & imprisoned...
Old 07-11-12, 11:38 AM
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Re: Phoenix Man Jailed for Hosting Bible Study!

Originally Posted by WillieTheShakes View Post
Cite?
There is no official source for this because the government has hidden it. Many Bothans died to bring us this information.
Old 07-11-12, 12:00 PM
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Re: Phoenix Man Jailed for Hosting Bible Study!

Originally Posted by Bandoman View Post
There is no official source for this because the government has hidden it. Many Bothans died to bring us this information.
Old 07-11-12, 12:02 PM
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Re: Phoenix Man Jailed for Hosting Bible Study!

Originally Posted by Mrs. Danger View Post
Well, I believe the guy you're defending is a self-important asshole with no considerations for his neighbors who is doing exactly what Jesus told his disciples NOT to do when he said "Don't cast your pearls before swine."

He's making Christianity odious to them all. He's not showing kindness and tolerance, he's being a jerk.

Read your freaking Bible before you trot out this drivel.

Jesus ought to smack you!
"Give to Caesar what is Caesar's and to God what is God's." ~Mark 12:17

No one says he can't have a church. He's just being asked to follow the proper procedures and zoning laws. He's totally in the wrong.
Old 07-11-12, 12:13 PM
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Re: Phoenix Man Jailed for Hosting Bible Study!

Originally Posted by dvdjunkie32 View Post
In just the last few years, there has been a strong push to force Christians to accept same sex marriage so things can indeed change that quickly.
There is no push for acceptance by the church. There is a push for acceptance by the civil authorities. Unless you live in someplace like Iran, they aren't the same thing.
Old 07-11-12, 12:15 PM
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Re: Phoenix Man Jailed for Hosting Bible Study!

Originally Posted by WillieTheShakes View Post
Cite?
This is the reference I looked at:

http://www.whatisprop8.com/ministers...ent-fines.html
Old 07-11-12, 12:34 PM
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Re: Phoenix Man Jailed for Hosting Bible Study!

Originally Posted by dvdjunkie32 View Post
Did you follow those links? Most go to WND.com, which is hardly the most objective of news sources.

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