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Biggest Loser 2012 Edition - Now with more health and nutrition!

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Biggest Loser 2012 Edition - Now with more health and nutrition!

Old 08-14-12, 08:49 PM
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Re: Biggest Loser 2012 Edition - Now with more health and nutrition!

A lot of those are just excuses. Most folks just plain dont get enough activity each day. You need 30-45 mins minimum, and waing around the office doesnt count. Dedicated physical activity. You do that and you eat 2000 calories and you wont gain wiehgt, no matter how fat you were. Neither of those goals are unrealistic. Most people just eatportions way higher than 2000 cals a day.
Old 08-14-12, 08:53 PM
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Re: Biggest Loser 2012 Edition - Now with more health and nutrition!

I can attest to weight loss being mostly about nutrition and diet - I haven't changed my diet since I started my marathon training 12 weeks ago and haven't lost a pound. I am lifting weights still twice a week though so that could also be balancing out the extra thousands of calories I'm burning that I haven't been burning before.
Old 08-14-12, 09:58 PM
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Re: Biggest Loser 2012 Edition - Now with more health and nutrition!

All anecdotal and meaningless. Did you even read a single one of the studies I linked?
Show me some studies that back you up like I did and then I'll listen.

Obviously you loose weight with mostly diet/nutrition and some exercise. The trick is keeping it going for YEARS. And of course people have done it and can do it, but my point is that it hardly ever happens at all, and it goes far beyond "excuses".

There was one study (I can't find right now) that took a bunch of people, all of them a "healthy" weight, but half of them had always been that weight and half of them used to be overweight. They put them on the same exact high-calorie diet and limited their calorie expenditure. After a few months, the people that were always thin only gained a couple pounds each, while the people that used to be overweight gained almost 10x that.

Also, being healthy/in-shape is not necessarily the same thing and being skinny.
It's far easier for someone to be in-shape and healthy, but still be "overweight" (if that's been their regular weight for a while) than it is for that same person to be what's generally considered skinny.
Old 08-14-12, 10:03 PM
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Re: Biggest Loser 2012 Edition - Now with more health and nutrition!

I dontknow what you are arguing. If you put the work in you wont be fat. If you are unwilling to put the work in, some people have fasater metabolisms than others, but if you do the work and follow a diet you wont be fat. Its that easy.
Old 08-14-12, 11:48 PM
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Re: Biggest Loser 2012 Edition - Now with more health and nutrition!

And I don't know what it is you're defending. I put up all that info and all you can say is some people have "faster metabolism"?

And if it was "that easy", 99% of the people who lose that weight wouldn't be getting fat again - are you really going to chalk that figure up to "excuses"?
Old 08-15-12, 06:07 AM
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Re: Biggest Loser 2012 Edition - Now with more health and nutrition!

Originally Posted by slop101 View Post
Nope, study after exhaustive study shows that people are more or less predisposed the weight they were at before they lost it.

There isn't a single study that shows any significant # of people who have lost more than 40 pounds being able to keep it off for a significant period of time.

Even the "success" stories are of people who started at, say, 240 lbs, lost 50, and "only" regained 35 pounds of it to settle in at a "thin" 220. And that's what they considered good.

The scientific community pretty much agrees that your body tries to maintain a certain weight.

Congratulations, but your success is not only too early, but anecdotal and ultimately useless to the overall data.

My point is that it has to be a pretty freaking MAJOR lifestyle change, one that most people cannot sustain. Sure, there are people who can keep the weight off long-term, but their numbers are SO LOW, they may as well not exist. And the ones that do keep it off, are basically militant about it and have to work at it 10x harder to maintain their lower weight than those that weren't overweight to begin with.

Look at this "Biggest Loser" where-are-they-now. Pretty much every single one has gained most of their weight back. The ones who haven't are either the more recent contestants (meaning that they'll gain it back soon enough) and the one's who have made a career out of keeping the weight off, and their livelihood freaking depends on it, or IOW, "lifestyle change". But what % of people is that, really? That's my point - it's so low as to be beyond insignificant.

Another interesting tidbit is how on average an adult consumes 900,000 kcal per year and only gains a half pound. Think about that! The body doesn't fuck up at all (on average), we just trust our bodies to tell us how much to eat and see a remarkable lack of fluctuation in weight gain (~0.2%). Pretty much every study you can research shows that the body has many ways to control both appetite and energy expenditure to rubber band itself back to it's original weight.

Also, something that contributes to the bounce-back in weight is the fact that fat cells, once created, can never be removed without surgery, only reduced in size. So someone who has lost 100 pounds will have the same number of fat cells that they did at their highest weight, just smaller ones. These existing fat cells grow easier than developing new ones, so even if everything else is the same (diet/exercise) it's physiologically harder for someone who's never been fat to get fatter than it is for someone who was fat, but now isn't. So if you want to lose weight and maintain it, both your brain and your body are working against you!
So how long do you want? Im in my 4th year since losing the initial 50lb (at about -97 now). Or are you saying between now and the end of the year my body will suddenly ballon back 50 or more pounds cause it is "predisposed" to do that. Regardless of my healthy eating and exercise.

So you making the arguement that it is natural to be fat? That is silliness. America is among the most obese nations. And there are reasons for it. Tho not totally based on every science, ever read the book "Born To Run". One arguement made is we as a (as people) stopped being runners (and very healthy) when we stopped being hunters and gathers.

But again, regardless of "predisposition", if you want science it is easy. Burn more calories than you take in and you will lose weight. Unless a sever medical condition (which is exceedingly rare) those that gained weight ate more than they burned. Period.

If only talking weight loss that is a fact. And is not disputable. Those that gained didn't follow through with that. Is it harder for some? Maybe. So? But if you stick to burning more than you eat, it is science, you can't gain.

You also making the huge assumption that all fat people have this predisposition to be fat. That like people saying "I have a thyroid condition". Sure ok, whatever. Or "I travel to much to eat healthy" ok, whatever.

By the way, no one said it was easy. But anyone can do it. There is nothing in any study that says "we can't lose weight and keep it off".

Another interesting note, one about 1% of the population runs regularly. So? Does that mean people can't run?

Here is a study showing some successful

http://healthland.time.com/2011/10/2...dieters-do-it/

Last edited by Sdallnct; 08-15-12 at 06:31 AM.
Old 08-15-12, 08:31 AM
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Re: Biggest Loser 2012 Edition - Now with more health and nutrition!

It's a lifestyle change, I agree, and yes it's easier to regain weight than it is to put on new weight.

I blame my weight issues on my job situation. When I go out and do stuff, live life, I don't sit around and eat - I move around and enjoy myself. At work, I'm stuck in front of this damn computer for 9 hours a day, eating a vending machine diet and fast food.

Losing weight is the hardest part, keeping it off is a different but almost equally difficult battle. People are creatures of habit and it takes a lot of work to change it.

Last edited by RichC2; 08-15-12 at 08:36 AM.
Old 08-15-12, 09:44 AM
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Re: Biggest Loser 2012 Edition - Now with more health and nutrition!

I liked to eat. I'd often skip breakfast, go out for a burrito or a firehouse sub, or chik fil a for lunch. i'd get the sandwich and chips or fries. i'd eat something like that every lunch. then i'd come home for dinner and snack on something before i ate, then ate a pretty big dinner with a couple servings of carbs and some cheese. and then often i'd find something like ice cream or cookies to eat even later in the evening. all of that without exercise.

so i went from someone who spent a ton of time working out in high school and college and weighed around 190 to someone who weighed 240 in the span of about 6 years. i made a concerted effort last january to lose weight. by the end of may i was at 181 after just doing cardio for 5 months and monitoring my diet. then i began to add weights in and built muscle mass. i've been doing about 15 mins of cardio and 30-40 mins of weights every day for the last year or so. and now i weigh 200 with a slightly smaller waist than i had at 181 and a larger chest, arms, legs, back, etc.

fat people aren't just fat because science says so. i do believe that some people have to work harder to lose and keep off weight.

using competition shows like the biggest loser as evidence of this phenomenon is crazy. if someone was willing to pay me $150,000 give me tons of exercise equipment, put me on tv, shack me up with world renowned trainers, i'd lose 50llbs. from where i am right now easy. i have that competitive drive. and then yeah, i'd probably gain it all back when it's over because the incentive is gone. i don't believe those people truly wanted to lose weight. they wanted to make money. same with the people on extreme makeover weight loss, etc. you can't give others incentives to lose weight. it has to be a personal decision.

losing weight isn't fun. exercising isn't really fun (although i do enjoy that time every day). adhering to a strict diet every day isn't fun. but some people need to do that if they want to be healthy or they want to be considered attractive (personal preference), etc.

if you're happy and healthy at whatever you weigh, good for you. i wasn't, so i chose to make a change. i like food, so it's probably something i'll struggle with again, but right now i feel pretty great.
Old 08-15-12, 09:50 AM
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Re: Biggest Loser 2012 Edition - Now with more health and nutrition!

Oh, and i wholeheartedly believe it's easier to lose weight than it is to maintain the lost weight. you psychologically hit that goal and feel like you can go back to cheating occasionally and eating things you gave up to get you there, and you can, but you can also slip up 4-5x in a month and put on 4-5lbs without blinking.

i also gave up alcohol while i was really dieting and that adds probably 1,000 calories a week or so, so that's something i have to watch out for, and i don't double up workouts anymore, etc.

people don't make excuses for intelligence or beauty or any other genetic gifts, so i don't see why folks are willing to make excuses for weight.
Old 08-15-12, 10:33 AM
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Re: Biggest Loser 2012 Edition - Now with more health and nutrition!

Originally Posted by Sdallnct View Post
So how long do you want?
Around a decade, or longer.
So you making the arguement that it is natural to be fat? That is silliness.
That is silliness, because it's NOT the argument at all. The point is that ONCE you've gotten overweight/fat (I'm NOT talking about "predisposition" or not), losing it and maintaining that loss is virtually impossible due to a number of factors, factors proven by study after scientific study.

I think we're arguing over each other trying to make different points. You're saying it's possible through a life style change of mostly diet and some exercise, which I'm not arguing AT ALL. Go read all my posts and studies again.

But if you have an actual scientific study proving me* wrong, I'd like to see it.

*(and it's not "me", it's people that have done thorough research)
Old 08-15-12, 10:39 AM
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Re: Biggest Loser 2012 Edition - Now with more health and nutrition!

Originally Posted by slop101 View Post
Around a decade, or longer.
That is silliness, because it's NOT the argument at all. The point is that ONCE you've gotten overweight/fat (I'm NOT talking about "predisposition" or not), losing it and maintaining that loss is virtually impossible due to a number of factors, factors proven by study after scientific study.

I think we're arguing over each other trying to make different points. You're saying it's possible through a life style change of mostly diet and some exercise, which I'm not arguing AT ALL. Go read all my posts and studies again.

But if you have an actual scientific study proving me* wrong, I'd like to see it.

*(and it's not "me", it's people that have done thorough research)
Most people gain weight as they age. There aren't many studies out there regarding 18-20 year olds who are obese, lose all the weight and maintain it for the next 15 years of their life. There are tons of studies about 35-45 year olds that lose 50 lbs. and then gain it back as they get older. Of course I believe that. None of the articles you posted are from sources I'd consider particularly significant. They are also mainly between 10 and 20 years old in an area of science that didn't begin to be heavily studied until the mid to late 90s.

If you're fat and happy, congratulations. But you could be skinny and happy, you're just unwilling to work at it.
Old 08-15-12, 10:46 AM
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Re: Biggest Loser 2012 Edition - Now with more health and nutrition!

I'm going to have to disagree as well, being fat doesn't mean you're doomed to be fat for good. It's going to take work to get the weight off, then it's going to be a bit of a battle to keep it off, but it's far from impossible. If you go back to what made you fat initially, yes you're going to get fat again.

Stay active, eat well.
Old 08-15-12, 10:54 AM
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Re: Biggest Loser 2012 Edition - Now with more health and nutrition!

What are you guys disagreeing with here, exactly? I'm basically pointing out that it's been proven that the earth revolves around the Sun and you're disagreeing, saying that you can see the Sun move in the sky.

Here's the Cracked article that actually got me thinking about this, and please take a minute to read it and at least some of it's links to the research before responding.

Let's get this straight: The number of people who go from fat to thin, and stay there, statistically rounds down to zero.

Every study says so. No study says otherwise. None.
Old 08-15-12, 11:03 AM
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Re: Biggest Loser 2012 Edition - Now with more health and nutrition!

Originally Posted by slop101 View Post
Around a decade, or longer.
That is silliness, because it's NOT the argument at all. The point is that ONCE you've gotten overweight/fat (I'm NOT talking about "predisposition" or not), losing it and maintaining that loss is virtually impossible due to a number of factors, factors proven by study after scientific study.

I think we're arguing over each other trying to make different points. You're saying it's possible through a life style change of mostly diet and some exercise, which I'm not arguing AT ALL. Go read all my posts and studies again.

But if you have an actual scientific study proving me* wrong, I'd like to see it.

*(and it's not "me", it's people that have done thorough research)
I read the studies. And I know that most people who lose weight gain it back. So? Link me a study that says it is not possible to lose weight and keep it off.

So if it is possible and I think we agree it is, then we have to find what offers the most chance for success. Which I agree is different for different people. I track calories. Others get frustrated doing that.

The reason I feel it is an excuse, is you can't measure if a person really is predisposed to anything. So people can latch on to it. It's like people saying "I'm big boned". Whatever. It's just an excuse.

Again using the argument that only a small number of people can do something so there must be an issue with doing it is rather silly. Only a tinny part of the population regularly runs. That doesn't mean running is bad or there are things that prevent people from running.

Those that gained weight did so by not sticking to what they did to lose weight. Period. Are there factors on why? Of course. So?

Is it hard? Yes. Is it harder for some than others. Maybe, ok.

But let's reverse it. Are you saying the few who are successful process some sort of super power?
Old 08-15-12, 11:03 AM
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Re: Biggest Loser 2012 Edition - Now with more health and nutrition!

And most people who were fat are naturally lazy and tend to eat crap. Not a single one of those studies says that a person who lost tremendous amounts of weight and continued to get daily exercise and eat relatively healthily put the fat back on. Not one.

In fact, all these studies show is that human beings are lazy. People who were fat to begin with will most likely be fat again, because they're lazy and like to eat. Not because of science. And I read every single link in that article. Show me one scientific study that shows someone who works out at a moderate activity for 30-45 minutes a day and eats 2000-2200 calories a day after dieting gained their weight back. You won't be able to find one. You know why? Because it's SCIENTIFICALLY IMPOSSIBLE.
Old 08-15-12, 11:05 AM
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Re: Biggest Loser 2012 Edition - Now with more health and nutrition!

And the driving "point", that it takes more than a "lifestyle change" is:

As that [NYT] article explains, the person who is at 175 pounds after a huge weight loss now has a completely different physical makeup from the person who is naturally 175 -- exercise benefits them less, calories are more readily stored as fat, the impulse to eat occurs far, far more often. The formerly fat person can exercise ten times the willpower of the never-fat guy, and still wind up fat again. The impulses are simply more frequent, and stronger, and the physical consequences of giving in are more severe. The people who successfully do it are the ones who become psychologically obsessive about it, like that weird guy who built an Eiffel Tower out of toothpicks.
So basically, when trying to maintain a healthy weight, that the cards are far more stacked against someone who used to be fat rather than someone who wasn't.
Old 08-15-12, 11:10 AM
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Re: Biggest Loser 2012 Edition - Now with more health and nutrition!

Originally Posted by slop101 View Post
And the driving "point", that it takes more than a "lifestyle change" is:

So basically, when trying to maintain a healthy weight, that the cards are far more stacked against someone who used to be fat rather than someone who wasn't.
It's very much a given that the cards are more stacked against someone who used to be fat as individuals who tend to get larger have at some point been ingrained with terrible habits, and those are damn hard to break.
Old 08-15-12, 11:10 AM
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Re: Biggest Loser 2012 Edition - Now with more health and nutrition!

Originally Posted by slop101 View Post
And the driving "point", that it takes more than a "lifestyle change" is:

So basically, when trying to maintain a healthy weight, that the cards are far more stacked against someone who used to be fat rather than someone who wasn't.
No one is arguing that it's harder for a formerly fat person to control food impulses than a skinny person. They got fat in the first place. They obviously love to eat.

The change in body makeup if their diet was done correctly should provide more muscle and less body fat than the typical person who "naturally" is at the same weight. Their metabolism should be working in overtime if they are still working out due to all the muscle mass and long interval burns. Someone who is fit will ALWAYS burn more calories at the same weight than someone who is not fit barring any sort of medical deficiencies. That's also science.

But that's not "the deck stacked against them." That's realizing how you got somewhere and changing your mental and physical makeup to not get there again.

We make excuses for everyone these days. Most of them can be cured with a little bit of hard work.
Old 08-15-12, 11:12 AM
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Re: Biggest Loser 2012 Edition - Now with more health and nutrition!

Originally Posted by slop101 View Post
What are you guys disagreeing with here, exactly? I'm basically pointing out that it's been proven that the earth revolves around the Sun and you're disagreeing, saying that you can see the Sun move in the sky.

Here's the Cracked article that actually got me thinking about this, and please take a minute to read it and at least some of it's links to the research before responding.
I'm basically saying, so what? Who didnt know losing weight and maintaining it was hard?
Old 08-15-12, 12:09 PM
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Re: Biggest Loser 2012 Edition - Now with more health and nutrition!

Originally Posted by Sdallnct View Post
I'm basically saying, so what? Who didnt know losing weight and maintaining it was hard?
A 1% success rate is a little more than "hard", don't you think?
Old 08-15-12, 03:05 PM
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Re: Biggest Loser 2012 Edition - Now with more health and nutrition!

So what's your point? That everyone in this thread should just give it up and have a slice of cheesecake?
Old 08-15-12, 03:27 PM
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Re: Biggest Loser 2012 Edition - Now with more health and nutrition!

Originally Posted by kitkat View Post
So what's your point? That everyone in this thread should just give it up and have a slice of cheesecake?
No, I just thought that the findings were interesting and pertinent to this thread. I was only pointing out that it's such a deeply physiological thing, that just spouting "diet & exercise" is highly reductive and a little insulting. So you lost weight by eating less and exercising more? Well no shit! So I just wanted the discussion to go beyond something so trite.

Seriously though. If something has a failure rate of 50%, it would be considered "bad"; 99% is downright abysmal - what do you say to something that only works 1% of the time?

How about discussing the reasons why the success rate for maintaining a low weight for formally obese people is so bad?

So excuse me for wanting to have an actual discussion on a discussion board...
Old 08-15-12, 03:44 PM
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Re: Biggest Loser 2012 Edition - Now with more health and nutrition!

There are a lot of activities where really low success rates are the standard.

Want to procreate? Hit a curveball? Run a sub 10 second 100? Become a millionaire?

Just because the odds are against you, doesn't mean that you should give up. On top of that, actually keeping off weight is the easiest of them all to accomplish. All you have to do is consume fewer calories than you burn. It's almost like rocket science!
Old 08-15-12, 04:10 PM
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Re: Biggest Loser 2012 Edition - Now with more health and nutrition!

Originally Posted by slop101 View Post
And the driving "point", that it takes more than a "lifestyle change" is:

So basically, when trying to maintain a healthy weight, that the cards are far more stacked against someone who used to be fat rather than someone who wasn't.
Originally Posted by slop101 View Post
A 1% success rate is a little more than "hard", don't you think?
Define "hard".

But again. So? It is really, really, really hard to run a marathon. Less than 1% ever do. Yet most people can in fact do it.

I'd ague that one factor is that people at a certain point no longer feel it important to maintain. Look at Opera and her very public issues with weight loss and gain. The last I heard from her was interesting I thought. She has basically decided (and I'm paraphrasing of course), that she is no longer going to worry about it. That she will "try" but feels it to stressful to worry and constantly work on.

But back to your question. Lots of things in life are hard (however you want to define). So? If it is important to you, if you really want to do it, are there really things that totally prevent them from happening? Rarely.

And I do have a question for you, would you agree that these people that lost weight and then gained it stopped doing the things that caused them to lose? That they reverted back to the things that caused them to be fat?
Old 08-15-12, 04:19 PM
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Re: Biggest Loser 2012 Edition - Now with more health and nutrition!

Originally Posted by slop101 View Post
No, I just thought that the findings were interesting and pertinent to this thread. I was only pointing out that it's such a deeply physiological thing, that just spouting "diet & exercise" is highly reductive and a little insulting. So you lost weight by eating less and exercising more? Well no shit! So I just wanted the discussion to go beyond something so trite.

Seriously though. If something has a failure rate of 50%, it would be considered "bad"; 99% is downright abysmal - what do you say to something that only works 1% of the time?

How about discussing the reasons why the success rate for maintaining a low weight for formally obese people is so bad?

So excuse me for wanting to have an actual discussion on a discussion board...
Calm down. It's not insulting or trite when people say to lose weight you eat less and move more. It is a fact.

The question needing ask is why don't people do that? And I'll go back to excuses. Could be that it is hard, or I travel, or I got married, or whatever. And some people cant get past those. Hell even my Dr told me I shouldn't run since it is high impact. Well duh. When did we decide high impact was bad?

One reason I'm taking what you say personal is that it diminishes what I have done. You (and others) are basically saying I'm lucky to have lost weight. Even my over weight wife tells me "I can't do what you do". I work my ass off (literally). And I get frustrated when I don't get the results I want. But I keep plugging away, and it is hard.

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