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YART: So, at what point does religion become mental instability?

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YART: So, at what point does religion become mental instability?

Old 01-06-12, 03:27 PM
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Re: YART: So, at what point does religion become mental instability?

Originally Posted by dork View Post
I don't claim to speak for all atheists, but I live my life by a very simple credo: "Try not to rape the wife or daughter of anyone who's bigger than you."
As Yoda would say, rape or rape not...there is no try.
Old 01-06-12, 03:39 PM
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Re: YART: So, at what point does religion become mental instability?

The question is have I learned anything about life. Only that human beings are divided into mind and body. The mind embraces all the nobler aspirations, like poetry and philosophy, but the body has all the fun. The important thing, I think, is not to be bitter... if it turns out that there IS a God, I don't think that He's evil. I think that the worst you can say about Him is that basically He's an underachiever. After all, there are worse things in life than death. If you've ever spent an evening with an insurance salesman, you know what I'm talking about. The key is, to not think of death as an end, but as more of a very effective way to cut down on your expenses. Regarding love, heh, what can you say? It's not the quantity of your sexual relations that counts. It's the quality. On the other hand if the quantity drops below once every eight months, I would definitely look into it.
Old 01-06-12, 03:45 PM
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Re: YART: So, at what point does religion become mental instability?

Originally Posted by dvdjunkie32 View Post
Oh but it's ok to start a thread infering that Christians are mentally ill? Sorry, but every atheist I've ever met online comes off as an arrogant "expert in everything" asshole. If I start meeting nice ones, I'll re-access my generalizations.
Your point would have been better made had it been truthful. I hate to play the "straw-man" card again, but since this a clear case of it being done I can't resist.

The thread was not "starting a thread infering that Christians are mentally ill" at all. If you look at the title it does not name Christianity, It instead poses a question that implies a debate is warranted, and suggests that religion practices have a sliding scale of reasonable to insane as evident by "at what point".

Inside the post you see that he addresses both Muslim extremists and the Phelps cult and then shows what most Christians would consider "fringe thinking" or completely not identify with. The clip shows lady saying that Ouija boards cause birth defects and talks about giant demons. I'm sure some Christians advocate burning Happy Potter books or books about dinosaurs, but do most?

The OP was not saying that all Christians are mentally ill, as you misrepresented, but instead asked if this lady's ranting counted as insanity when the OP clearly stated: "Is there a definitive line between devout and bat-shit crazy?"

Did you watch those two videos? Judge her grasp on reality for us and then measure her against what you consider the typical Christian. That'd be much better then what you are currently doing.
Old 01-06-12, 04:03 PM
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Re: YART: So, at what point does religion become mental instability?

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Old 01-06-12, 05:48 PM
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Re: YART: So, at what point does religion become mental instability?

Originally Posted by Navinabob View Post
Your point would have been better made had it been truthful. I hate to play the "straw-man" card again, but since this a clear case of it being done I can't resist.
Hush you. Get your logic and reading comprehension out of this thread.
Old 01-06-12, 06:56 PM
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Re: YART: So, at what point does religion become mental instability?

Originally Posted by CRM114 View Post
So you're agnostic?
Basically, yeah.

Originally Posted by Sean O'Hara View Post
Misquoted? The site contains the complete text of the KJV with links to annotations. Are you saying the KJV is wrong?
Not quite; the problem isn't in the text but in the annotations. After a second look at the site, maybe "misinterpreted" is a better word than "misquoted". But that second look didn't change my opinion; it only took about five minutes to find an example of sloppy interpretation (Check out Esther 6:1.) Again, who knows how many I'd find if I cared to dig through the whole site? Don't get me wrong; I don't think for a minute that the Bible is above criticism. But it can be criticized without resorting to careless readings, smarmy dismissals, or intellectual dishonesty (I'm not accusing you of any of that; it's directed at the Skeptic's Bible creators).

And can anyone explain what's funny about a "Kill-the-Jews day" (it's at the bottom of the linked page)? http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/est/3.html

Originally Posted by Navinabob View Post
The other problem is in the interpretation. The guide takes each item as written, where for many Christians who attend mass, the same passage has been reinterpreted and often linked to some issue going on today. "Taken out of context" is very fuzzy thing to claim since we do not know if the correct context should be ancient or contemporary.
"Taken out of context" isn't fuzzy at all. When someone isolates a single verse from its surrounding verses, then goes on to say it means one thing (usually putting it in the worst possible light) when those other verses make clear it means something different, then it's been taken out of context. That's true of any written work.
Old 01-06-12, 07:14 PM
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Re: YART: So, at what point does religion become mental instability?

Originally Posted by TBC View Post
Not quite; the problem isn't in the text but in the annotations. After a second look at the site, maybe "misinterpreted" is a better word than "misquoted". But that second look didn't change my opinion; it only took about five minutes to find an example of sloppy interpretation (Check out Esther 6:1.) Again, who knows how many I'd find if I cared to dig through the whole site? Don't get me wrong; I don't think for a minute that the Bible is above criticism. But it can be criticized without resorting to careless readings, smarmy dismissals, or intellectual dishonesty (I'm not accusing you of any of that; it's directed at the Skeptic's Bible creators).

http://bible.cc/esther/6-1.htm

They used the KJV. As you can clearly see, the passage has been monkeyed with dozens of times, but it has the same basic components. Is it your contention that their joke (clearly a joke as evident by the laughing head) was out of context? I suppose you are saying that the King wanted the book because of its entertainment value and not its ability to put people to sleep... I suppose that is a fair point had it not been a joke filed under absurdities. But, I might be reading everything wrong. What am I missing?
Old 01-06-12, 08:09 PM
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Re: YART: So, at what point does religion become mental instability?

I'm saying their joke depends on misreading the verse. I doubt the King of Persia would have asked for the Biblical book of Chronicles to read.
Old 01-07-12, 03:39 AM
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Re: YART: So, at what point does religion become mental instability?

Originally Posted by TBC View Post
I'm saying their joke depends on misreading the verse. I doubt the King of Persia would have asked for the Biblical book of Chronicles to read.
That's a pretty odd statement to make considering all of the commentary indicates exactly the opposite.

A book of this kind, abounding with anecdotes, is full of interest. It has been a custom with Eastern kings, in all ages, frequently to cause the annals of the kingdom to be read to them. It is resorted to, not merely as a pastime to while away the tedium of an hour, but as a source of instruction to the monarch, by reviewing the important incidents of his own life, as well as those of his ancestors. There was, therefore, nothing uncommon in this Persian monarch calling for the court journal.
The records of the chronicles - It may be well asked, Why should the king, in such a perturbed state of mind, wish such a dry detail, as chronicles afford, to be read to him? But the truth is, as chronicles were composed among the Persians, he could not have brought before him any work more instructive, and more entertaining; because they were all written in verse, and were generally the work of the most eminent poets in the empire. They are written in this way to the present time; and the famous epic poem of the finest Persian poet, Ferdusi, the Homer of India, is nothing else than a collection of chronicles brought down from the creation to the reign of Mohammed Ghezny, in the beginning of the tenth century.
But, for all I know, you could know more then this guy:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adam_Clarke

or these guys:

http://www.ccel.org/ccel/jamieson/jfb.html

Not that I have a real dog in this particular fight, I just think it is strange that you picked this one example, of the many you said you saw after brief skimming, to make your point about when I'm not too clear on if you are correct or not. Maybe if you spelled out exactly how the verse should be read in context it would help me understand your point.

I had thought your point was commenting that the book wasn't presented as a sleep aid, but instead you seem to be indicating quite clearly that "I doubt the King of Persia would have asked for the Biblical book of Chronicles to read."
Old 01-07-12, 08:48 AM
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Re: YART: So, at what point does religion become mental instability?

Originally Posted by Navinabob View Post
That's a pretty odd statement to make considering all of the commentary indicates exactly the opposite.





But, for all I know, you could know more then this guy:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adam_Clarke

or these guys:

http://www.ccel.org/ccel/jamieson/jfb.html

Not that I have a real dog in this particular fight, I just think it is strange that you picked this one example, of the many you said you saw after brief skimming, to make your point about when I'm not too clear on if you are correct or not. Maybe if you spelled out exactly how the verse should be read in context it would help me understand your point.

I had thought your point was commenting that the book wasn't presented as a sleep aid, but instead you seem to be indicating quite clearly that "I doubt the King of Persia would have asked for the Biblical book of Chronicles to read."
Perhaps I am missing something, but the Biblical, i.e. Jewish, Book of Chronicles is not the same thing as a Persian court chronicle.

Or am I missing something?
Old 01-07-12, 10:04 AM
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Re: YART: So, at what point does religion become mental instability?

Originally Posted by Abelkems View Post
Is there a definitive line between devout and bat-shit crazy?
Probably when you start thinking that Jesus was a Transformer.



One good decision can change your life forever.

Let his power transform you.
Old 01-07-12, 10:42 AM
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Re: YART: So, at what point does religion become mental instability?

Originally Posted by Navinabob View Post
Not that I have a real dog in this particular fight, I just think it is strange that you picked this one example, of the many you said you saw after brief skimming, to make your point about when I'm not too clear on if you are correct or not. Maybe if you spelled out exactly how the verse should be read in context it would help me understand your point.
I'll try to make it clearer.

I first checked out the site a few months ago (there was a link to it on another forum I use); that's when I found the problems mentioned. Unfortunately, I don't remember the exact passages anymore. When I saw it linked here, I had a second look. I picked the Esther passage because it was the first example I found. I could probably find other, better, examples if I spent enough time on it. It's not that important to me, though.

The verse itself: My criticism isn't as complicated as you seem to see it. The king asked for his court chronicles, not the Biblical book named Chronicles. It doesn't take great brilliance to see that, but somehow it got past the Skeptic's Bible authors.
Old 01-07-12, 03:01 PM
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Re: YART: So, at what point does religion become mental instability?

Originally Posted by TBC View Post
I'll try to make it clearer.

I first checked out the site a few months ago (there was a link to it on another forum I use); that's when I found the problems mentioned. Unfortunately, I don't remember the exact passages anymore. When I saw it linked here, I had a second look. I picked the Esther passage because it was the first example I found. I could probably find other, better, examples if I spent enough time on it. It's not that important to me, though.

The verse itself: My criticism isn't as complicated as you seem to see it. The king asked for his court chronicles, not the Biblical book named Chronicles. It doesn't take great brilliance to see that, but somehow it got past the Skeptic's Bible authors.
Ahh... gotcha. Thanks
Old 01-07-12, 05:30 PM
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Re: YART: So, at what point does religion become mental instability?

I wonder what Optimus Prime would look like with long hair and/or a goatee.
Old 01-07-12, 05:52 PM
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Re: YART: So, at what point does religion become mental instability?

Originally Posted by Abelkems View Post
... Is there a definitive line between devout and bat-shit crazy?
If you can't tell the difference, then no.
Old 01-07-12, 07:20 PM
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Re: YART: So, at what point does religion become mental instability?

One thing that's really been put into play in my life recently is realizing that it's not WHAT you talk about, it's HOW you talk about it. Over the holidays I got an ass-full of my Jewish wife going off on Christmas and its Pagan Roots(an already well known thing among most Christians), Jesus "Birthday", and Jesus really being the God Zeus...ok, cool Honey. The thing is...She doesn't do it with any kind of RESPECT for other's beliefs and instead has become the Jewish equivalent of a Fire and Brimstone Evangelical Preacher telling everyone else what they believe is wrong. Oh yeah, because the Jews got it right huh? Just like the Muslims, Christians, and etc. I must say...I've never been so anti-Religion in my life. But still, through it all I do my best to not show any disrespect to her Faith. A concept she can't seem to get.

Either way show some RESPECT and Maybe, just maybe... some folks will open their ears. As long as there's EGO, ARROGANCE, CLOSE MINDED ATTITUDES, and NAME-CALLING involved nothing good comes from this...

Last edited by Giantrobo; 01-08-12 at 08:08 AM.
Old 01-07-12, 07:51 PM
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Re: YART: So, at what point does religion become mental instability?

Originally Posted by RocShemp View Post
Probably when you start thinking that Jesus was a Transformer.

Arise... JESIMUS PRIME

You got the touch! You got the powerrrrr!!!!
Old 01-08-12, 01:18 AM
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Re: YART: So, at what point does religion become mental instability?

Tu tienes el toque
Tu tienes el poder
Old 01-08-12, 05:30 AM
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Re: YART: So, at what point does religion become mental instability?

Originally Posted by Giantrobo View Post
One thing that's really been put into play in my life recently is realizing that it's not WHAT you talk about, it's HOW you talk about it. Over the holidays I got an ass-full of my Jewish wife going off on Christmas and its Pagan Roots(an already well known thing among most Christians), Jesus "Birthday", and Jesus really being the God Zeus...ok, cool Honey. The thing is...She doesn't do it with any kind of RESPECT for other's beliefs and instead has become the Jewish equivalent of a Fire and Brimstone Evangelical Preacher telling everyone else what they believe is wrong. Oh yeah, because the Jews got it right huh? Just like the Muslims, Christians, and etc. I must say...I've never been so anti-Religion in my life. But still, through it all I do my best to not show any disrespect to her Faith. A concept she can't seem get.

Either way show some RESPECT and Maybe, just maybe... some folks will open their ears. As long as there's EGO, ARROGANCE, CLOSE MINDED ATTITUDES, and NAME-CALLING involved nothing good comes from this...
I always find it odd when one religion trashes another based on how silly their roots are or their particular supernatural elements.
Old 01-08-12, 07:29 AM
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Re: YART: So, at what point does religion become mental instability?

Originally Posted by Navinabob View Post
I always find it odd when one religion trashes another lbased on how silly their roots are or their particular supernatural elements.
It is very odd.
Old 01-08-12, 03:42 PM
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Re: YART: So, at what point does religion become mental instability?

Originally Posted by Josh-da-man View Post
Arise... JESIMUS PRIME

You got the touch! You got the powerrrrr!!!!
Originally Posted by inri222 View Post
Tu tienes el toque
Tu tienes el poder
Old 01-30-12, 09:07 PM
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Re: YART: So, at what point does religion become mental instability?

Old 04-22-12, 09:21 PM
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Re: YART: So, at what point does religion become mental instability?

Religion stunts an individual's mind. In the case of Christianity, we are told to accept the Bible as it is without question. Critical thinking skills are not recommended and frowned upon because any valid questions pertaining to its contents can only be answered by faith (non-logic). Who are they kidding, do they really think they can insult my intelligence with something that requires no intelligence? The Bible uses the analogy in which people are referred to as sheep. I'm sorry, but I am not one with the sheeple mentality, nor will I accept being some brainwashed, mindless zombie drone who is spoon-fed any ideology or doctrine that places restrictions on personal freedoms. Anyone who relies on personal religious dogmatic convictions over rationality and common sense is an ignorant, weak-minded person who unfortunately doesn't know any better.

WAKE UP SHEEPLE!!!

Old 04-22-12, 09:35 PM
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Re: YART: So, at what point does religion become mental instability?

Old 04-23-12, 08:47 AM
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Re: YART: So, at what point does religion become mental instability?

Originally Posted by Vlyger View Post
Religion stunts an individual's mind. In the case of Christianity, we are told to accept the Bible as it is without question. Critical thinking skills are not recommended and frowned upon because any valid questions pertaining to its contents can only be answered by faith (non-logic). Who are they kidding, do they really think they can insult my intelligence with something that requires no intelligence? The Bible uses the analogy in which people are referred to as sheep. I'm sorry, but I am not one with the sheeple mentality, nor will I accept being some brainwashed, mindless zombie drone who is spoon-fed any ideology or doctrine that places restrictions on personal freedoms. Anyone who relies on personal religious dogmatic convictions over rationality and common sense is an ignorant, weak-minded person who unfortunately doesn't know any better.

WAKE UP SHEEPLE!!!


Ahhh someone hasn't been going to church in awhile! Actually modern Christianity requires critical thinking more than ever. There are many false teachers out there today, false Christs just as the Bible predicted. If you blindly accept what someone teaches then you can be deceived. Rather, the Bible is an endless resevoir of truth, and it is meant to be studied deeply.

Are you honestly suggesting the world would be a better place if Christianity was eradicated? Christian ministries do more to help people than any other organization. People are saved, healed and turn away from destructive behavior.

Are you honestly going to say that someone like Brian Welch would be far better off in his life if he never found Christ?


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