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Fire department let's home burn. Owner didn't pay annual fee

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Fire department let's home burn. Owner didn't pay annual fee

Old 12-07-11, 04:21 PM
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Re: Fire department let's home burn. Owner didn't pay annual fee

Originally Posted by C-Mart View Post
No kidding. I would easily pay it, as my current taxes cost me roughly $2k per year just towards the fire department!
Either you are wrong with your amount, or you are being butt raped by the fire department. Do they happen to have a lot of fires in your neighborhood?
Old 12-07-11, 04:22 PM
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Re: Fire department let's home burn. Owner didn't pay annual fee

Originally Posted by whoopdido View Post
How do you feel about the people that lost everything in a flood and didn't have flood insurance? Same deal? Tough shit? Should have bought flood insurance? I would hope so, since it's exactly the same thing if you want to call this fee fire insurance.
Well, those bitches should have had flood insurance.
Old 12-07-11, 04:25 PM
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Re: Fire department let's home burn. Owner didn't pay annual fee

Originally Posted by cpgator View Post
Either you are wrong with your amount, or you are being butt raped by the fire department. Do they happen to have a lot of fires in your neighborhood?
Probably lives in a city with multiple fire houses. Equipment, health insurance, life insurance, not to mention pay for the non volunteers isn't cheap. Again, $75 is a bargain.
Old 12-07-11, 04:33 PM
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Re: Fire department let's home burn. Owner didn't pay annual fee

Originally Posted by Timber View Post
Probably lives in a city with multiple fire houses. Equipment, health insurance, life insurance, not to mention pay for the non volunteers isn't cheap. Again, $75 is a bargain.
When over 30% of your property taxes is going to just fire protection, something isn't right.

In my county, on a 300k house, you pay about $330 for fire. So living in a tiny trailer, I don't think $75 is a bargin.

But seriously, 2k a year for the fire department?
-Edit- Just realized that Cmart lives in CA. I guess that explains the tax.

Last edited by cpgator; 12-07-11 at 04:39 PM.
Old 12-07-11, 04:39 PM
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Re: Fire department let's home burn. Owner didn't pay annual fee

Originally Posted by whoopdido View Post
How do you feel about the people that lost everything in a flood and didn't have flood insurance? Same deal? Tough shit? Should have bought flood insurance? I would hope so, since it's exactly the same thing if you want to call this fee fire insurance.
Is this a joke?
Old 12-07-11, 04:41 PM
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Re: Fire department let's home burn. Owner didn't pay annual fee

Hmm, just went and cheked mine and my fire tax rate is 0.135500, whatever the hell that means.
Old 12-07-11, 04:58 PM
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Re: Fire department let's home burn. Owner didn't pay annual fee

The area could form a VFD of their own. Lots of communities outside cities do. Apparently not enough people in that part of the county care.
Old 12-07-11, 05:08 PM
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Re: Fire department let's home burn. Owner didn't pay annual fee

Nobody's mentioned the biggest problem with this whole issue:

Is it really that fucking hard to get rid of the misplaced apostrophe in the header?
Old 12-07-11, 05:21 PM
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Re: Fire department let's home burn. Owner didn't pay annual fee

Originally Posted by whoopdido View Post
How do you feel about the people that lost everything in a flood and didn't have flood insurance? Same deal? Tough shit? Should have bought flood insurance? I would hope so, since it's exactly the same thing if you want to call this fee fire insurance.
As someone else pointed out, $75 is nowhere close to what putting out a fire costs. Since, statistically speaking, only a portion of those paying the $75 will actually have a loss, the "extra" premiums cover that small portion. If that's not the definition of insurance, I don't know what is.

Also, as has already been pointed out, most people who own property in a flood plain are required to hold flood insurance. I have been flooded out of a "garden" apartment before and my renter's insurance did not cover flood damage (because the building wasn't in a flood plain--a big rainstorm overwhelmed the drain on my concrete patio), so I know whereof I speak.
Old 12-07-11, 05:25 PM
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Re: Fire department let's home burn. Owner didn't pay annual fee

Originally Posted by Vibiana View Post
Lemme splain it to you, city boy. An unincorporated area (that is not part of a municipality) is usually under the jurisdiction of either the county sheriff or the state police. Services provided by the county or the state are underwritten by the county's or the state's budget. The city in this case has voluntarily provided service to residents outside its jurisdiction, under the condition that those residents pay a fee to insure that service.

If you move into an area like my dad's, in rural upper Michigan, you have a well, a septic tank, and a propane tank, and your electricity is provided through a rural (privately owned) cooperative. It would avail you nothing to howl at the nearest municipality with a public sewer, water, gas, and electric utility that they weren't providing you with water, sewer, heat, and lights.

NOW do you get it?
I'm still waiting for "city boy" to acknowledge this post to see if he gets it yet.
Old 12-07-11, 05:37 PM
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Re: Fire department let's home burn. Owner didn't pay annual fee

Originally Posted by Sean O'Hara View Post
If you live in Montgomery County, Maryland and you call the DC police to report a crime, guess what -- they aren't going to come over.
That's ok. They won't come to certain places in DC either.
Old 12-07-11, 05:45 PM
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Re: Fire department let's home burn. Owner didn't pay annual fee

Old 12-07-11, 05:57 PM
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Re: Fire department let's home burn. Owner didn't pay annual fee

Originally Posted by cpgator View Post
I don't know. $75 is a lot of money to some people, and from the picture in the article, I'm would guess it was a lot of money to them.
My God! It's one less six pack of PBR a month. How will they survive.

five bucks says the trailer had a DirecTV dish
Old 12-07-11, 06:45 PM
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Re: Fire department let's home burn. Owner didn't pay annual fee

Originally Posted by Vibiana View Post
As someone else pointed out, $75 is nowhere close to what putting out a fire costs. Since, statistically speaking, only a portion of those paying the $75 will actually have a loss, the "extra" premiums cover that small portion. If that's not the definition of insurance, I don't know what is.

Also, as has already been pointed out, most people who own property in a flood plain are required to hold flood insurance. I have been flooded out of a "garden" apartment before and my renter's insurance did not cover flood damage (because the building wasn't in a flood plain--a big rainstorm overwhelmed the drain on my concrete patio), so I know whereof I speak.

That's just mean
Old 12-07-11, 07:41 PM
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Re: Fire department let's home burn. Owner didn't pay annual fee

Here's some background info from a local. It was posted in the comments at Think Progress, so I can't verify the truthiness of the information.

I spoilered most of the comment due to length.

Okay, fine, here's the deal: for over 20 years, the County of Obion has tried to solve this problem. Three times there was vote for a fire levy for the county to provide fire protection for rural residents and 3 times the rural residents voted it down. So the city of South Fulton stepped up, pretty much out of the kindness of their hearts, and volunteered to cover what area they could with their own fire protection service (which is paid for by the taxes of the city of South Fulton - not a dime of a rural Obion resident contributes to it) for a very modest fee, much less than the levy the residents had voted on repeatedly. South Fulton made sure that all residents in the area they volunteered to cover knew this service was fully voluntary - you did NOT have to take it, and that the $75 a year fee would cover the extra costs of covering a larger area. South Fulton receives about $8000 a year in these fees - not a lost considering the costs of fire equipment and trainning. They cannot cover as much as they would in the city - in the rural areas there are no fire hydrants or other ways to pump water with pressure, so basically they have to bring whatever water they can with them.

South Fulton even takes the time to send a notice every year to remind you your fire levy is due. The gentleman whose house burned last year, Mr Crannick, got his yearly notice, 3 reminder letters, and 3 reminders phone calls over a period of 9 months. To each reminder he promised to pay the $75. He never did. Yet he said, on national television, that he still expected that the fire department would come put the fire out even though he had not paid their fee.

Spoiler:
Fire protection is not a public service that is provided from sea to shining sea. It costs money, and lots of it. In larger areas, this money comes from taxes. So no matter where you live, somehow, somewhere, you ARE paying for your own fire protection. But the rural population of Obion County refused to pay such taxes. They may have been right if there are so few residents that the tax burden per resident would have been too great. But some of them near South Fulton were offered another option, and a pretty cheap one I have to say. Some took it and quietly and thankfully pay it and are glad of the coverage. And some do not. It's a choice.

This is the rural South. And it's a stereotype, but if you really needed $75 to protect your home from a fire and you truly could not come up with it despite your best efforts, your neighbors would probably help you out. Or your local church. There are options. These people who lost their homes decided not to take up the option. If God send you a county option, a city volunteer option, and reminder calls and letters, you lost your right to say, "God, why didn't anyone take care of me?"

Let me also be very clear about the position of the firefighters. If there were a human endangered, they would have done their level best to rescue them. What their particular policy on pets is I cannot tell you, but I would bet good money it is no different from any other respectable fire department. The family last year had 3 hours in which to rescue their dogs before their fire reached their house. They chose not to. Yet they would ask a firefighter to risk his own life to do so? The family last year made other bad choices - one was, knowing they had refused all offered fire protection, they decided to let their unsupervised grandson burn some trash in their yard. You can't protect somebody from their own stupidity or when they have refused protection. The firefighter were there, not to laugh and point, but to make sure no one went BACK into the house when it was unsafe. Oh, and forget not that if they had defied their higher ups and fought the fire - if anyone was injured Workers Comp would not have paid a dime. Now, given all of this, and this man's chronic refusal to pay for a service, would YOU as the spouse of a firefighter want your beloved to risk his or her life for this person who does not choose to help the City that volunteered to help him pay the firefighters or pay for their training and equipment?

Help our fellow man? You betcha. Help our fellow man who thinks everthing should be handed to him? No. In my book he is just as bad as the wealthy that want to get rich off the backs of the poor. Everything is a choice, every choice has consequences. Don't blame others for your choices.

Mr Lentz, there are many firefighters who have bothered to read into the whole situtation and they agreed that while usually if firefighters are present, they should make an effort to put out the fire. But in this case, with limited water and having the obligation to make sure the fire did not spread to neighbors who HAD paid their fee, those firefighters are faced with difficult decisions. But they are far from heartless. I wish you could see their faces as they are required to stand there and be reviled for doing their jobs as best they can in the difficult situation.

I hear everyone's outrage. But this situation has been going on in Obion County for well over 20 years. You never hear about it until someone's house burns down. But if people were really that worried about protecting their homes, 20+ years would be enough time to think up a realistic solution, hmm? The best solution they could come up with was this subscription service. In over 20 years they have not been able to come up with better, so the citizens of rural Obion County must be pretty satisfied with it. The vast majority pay their fee and are glad of it. But those who choose not to (it comes out to little over $6 a month), and then say the system failed them, I cannot find much sympathy for them.

My house insurance has risen every year, especially since the economy collapsed, while my income has not risen at all, in fact it has decreased by 1/4. Yet I keep my house insurance and do without other things, just in case. My just in case was April - when a huge oak tree fell on my house. And if I had decided to let my house insurance lapse before that tree fell, I would have lost my house and been stuck with the mortgage. And it would have been all MY fault, because it was MY choice. If I can pay $1300 a year on a fixed income, then paying $75 a year for fire protection doesn't impress me as budget-breaking, no matter how poor one is.

http://thinkprogress.org/special/201...ily-home-burn/
Old 12-07-11, 08:06 PM
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Re: Fire department let's home burn. Owner didn't pay annual fee

That was a pretty good explanation. I still think it's "wrong" but a lot of things are "wrong" about this country.
Old 12-07-11, 08:09 PM
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Re: Fire department let's home burn. Owner didn't pay annual fee

Originally Posted by cpgator View Post
I don't know. $75 is a lot of money to some people, and from the picture in the article, I'm would guess it was a lot of money to them.
It's priorities. I'm willing to bet that both these people had no issues paying their monthly cable bill.
Old 12-07-11, 08:19 PM
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Re: Fire department let's home burn. Owner didn't pay annual fee

If you won't pay $75/year for fire protection, either you're an idiot or you don't own anything worth $75 to protect.
Old 12-07-11, 08:24 PM
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Re: Fire department let's home burn. Owner didn't pay annual fee

Originally Posted by Red Dog View Post
Do you expect the municipal gov't (that you contribute nothing to) next to your local gov't to help you when you need it?
That's how it works here.

I'm in a rural area and we have our own volunteer fire department. In the event of a particularly large fire, we will receive assistance from the fire departments of other small communities and will likewise assist the other smaller communities in the event that they need our assistance.

Furthermore, the larger fire departments that have full-time fire fighters will assist the surrounding small, rural communities in the event that they need it. We've had cities as far as fifty miles away send trucks and crews to help put out large or problematic fires.

I'm not sure if we pay any kinds of fees for these services, but it's not an opt-in program. This would never work where I live because you'd probably only have about one in five people actually pay the voluntary $75 fee.
Old 12-07-11, 08:43 PM
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Re: Fire department let's home burn. Owner didn't pay annual fee

Occupy South Fulton Fire Department!
Old 12-07-11, 09:41 PM
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Re: Fire department let's home burn. Owner didn't pay annual fee

Originally Posted by whoopdido View Post
How do you feel about the people that lost everything in a flood and didn't have flood insurance? Same deal? Tough shit? Should have bought flood insurance? I would hope so, since it's exactly the same thing if you want to call this fee fire insurance.
Seeing as how there are no flood departments that are capable of coming to your house and putting the flood out, I would say it is another of your attempts to avoid addressing the real issue head on


How about the people that get in auto accidents and have no insurance? What happens to them? If their car is totaled, they need to go buy another out of pocket. If they injure someone else, they pay out of pocket for a very very long time.

Should someone (maybe you?) just pay it all for them since they didn't have insurance or forgot to pay their monthly bill and let the coverage lapse? or are they responsible for their own actions? Hmmm.....
Old 12-07-11, 09:48 PM
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Re: Fire department let's home burn. Owner didn't pay annual fee

Originally Posted by 4KRG View Post
If they injure someone else, they pay out of pocket for a very very long time.
Nah. They just drive off and stick us "civilized" folks with the bill.

Thank goodness that my high taxes pay for it (I live in the Phoenix burbs). We actually pay lots of taxes on everything, it seems. That would suck ass to lose everything in a fire. I certainly side with a plan to work it into taxes, instead of having to mail a yearly check to my local FD. Funny how I could pay $1000 in property taxes that ends up at the FD. But, really, if I were required to send in $100 per year, it may or may not get done.
Old 12-07-11, 11:33 PM
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Re: Fire department let's home burn. Owner didn't pay annual fee

Originally Posted by milo bloom View Post
This is what's bugged me since the last time and I don't think I got answer then either. Even if they're outside of the city limits, they've still got to be under some governmental body's control. They have water and electricity right? That stuff doesn't install itself. There's got to be some form of government over the county residents just for the very basic structure of society. How do they not have some form of reciprocity with the city services?
Most of us country folk have wells. Electricity comes from PUDs or regular electric companies. If you don't pay for electricity, you don't get electricity, and as a result, water from your well. Just like this fire insurance, you have to pay to get the service. My county (and most, I suspect) have a fire department. Mine in volunteer and subsidized by the county via taxes. Cities and counties do not always get along. Especially in rural areas.

Originally Posted by whoopdido View Post
I think it's reasonable to expect that SOMEBODY will stop your house from burning down rather than just stand there and watch it happen.
Is it reasonable to expect that someone will reimburse me for items stolen from my house if I don't buy homeowners insurance? Is it reasonable to expect that if I wreck my car and don't have full coverage that someone will pay to get my car fixed? It's the same thing. It is just property, and not human life.

Originally Posted by cpgator View Post
Not sure that it matters, but I'm not sure where the discounted rate is. There are basically paying $75 a year insurance for a service that might cost a few thousand $$ if they ever need it. Seems high to me.
Some kids started a small fire on my property and the county fire department put it out. Since I wasn't at fault, I had no bill. If it had been my fault, it would have cost around $15,000 and that was for an area about 100'x100'. Just like how a ride in the ambulence is more than just the gas to get there, there is a lot more to it than that. There is some pretty expensive fire "foam" that is used. There is wear and tear on the vehicles. There is use of equipment. In other words, unsubsidized, there is a hell of a lot more expense than someone would expect. It's a bit of a specialty industry.

Originally Posted by whoopdido View Post
Let's just make everything in the country available only if you pay. That would be fine by me. You want fire protection? Pay up? You want police protection? Pay up. You want health insurance? Pay up. You want to be able to eat? Pay for your food and don't accept food stamps. You want to live in a house? Pay the going rate and not this section 8/reduced housing crap. You want a dvd player? Pay for it yourself instead of with your welfare check. You want to go to college? Pay for it instead of getting financial aid. I could go on and on and on. People everywhere in this country get free rides, but something as simple as getting your house fire put out doesn't happen because of a measely 75 bucks. Whatever...it doesn't affect me. Apparently if my house catches fire, it'll get put out, so I really don't care.
Is there any insurance the government should not provide to you?

Originally Posted by whoopdido View Post
How do you feel about the people that lost everything in a flood and didn't have flood insurance? Same deal? Tough shit? Should have bought flood insurance? I would hope so, since it's exactly the same thing if you want to call this fee fire insurance.
Maybe you have some special attachment to what we call "home." But, again, if this happened to my car and I didn't have insurance, would you expect the government to pay for the repairs?
Old 12-08-11, 12:53 AM
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Re: Fire department let's home burn. Owner didn't pay annual fee

Old 12-08-11, 07:58 AM
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Re: Fire department let's home burn. Owner didn't pay annual fee

Originally Posted by SterlingBen View Post
Me too, Bootsie. Me too.

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