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A question about the Bible

Old 08-19-10, 10:31 PM
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A question about the Bible

I know how religious threads can go around here and I really hope this doesn't devolve into one of those. As most of you know I'm an Atheist and am not as familiar with the Bible as some of you.

Would someone please explain to me what the Bible says about Jesus coming back, specifically where and when.

The reason I ask is cause of a pretentious, know-it-all, conspiracy theory nut that I'd like to prove is off on his facts. Basically, his theory is this: The reason that the US is such an ardent protector of Israel isn't to preserve democracy in the region, but rather that most legislators are Christian and believe Jesus will return in Israel and that said legislators are worried if he returned to an Islamic republic. Also, I know nothing about Islam, but isn't Jesus regarded as a prophet to them? I know this sounds batshit crazy and please feel free to laugh at him cause we sure do, but I want to know if the argument has any theoretical merit. Again, please keep it civil
Old 08-19-10, 10:42 PM
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Re: A question about the Bible

Jesus is a prophet in the Koran.

If you don't feel like reading, buy the 60 CD set where James Earl Jones reads The Bible.

In before page 30.

Good luck, dude.
Old 08-19-10, 10:44 PM
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Re: A question about the Bible

Matthew 24:36 - But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.

So the time time and day are unknown, but everyone knows that when Christ does return, it'll be to Salt Lake City.

Old 08-19-10, 10:46 PM
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Re: A question about the Bible

Originally Posted by NORML54601 View Post
Would someone please explain to me what the Bible says about Jesus coming back, specifically where and when.
It's been awhile so don't quote me on this, but I'm 95% sure that the Bible never specifies the date and region in which Jesus will supposedly return.
Old 08-19-10, 11:05 PM
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Re: A question about the Bible

43rd and Broadway, October 13, 2146.
Old 08-19-10, 11:19 PM
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Re: A question about the Bible

Originally Posted by NORML54601 View Post
Would someone please explain to me what the Bible says about Jesus coming back, specifically where and when.
It doesn't specify either of those things. Unless you count "the clouds" as where.
Old 08-19-10, 11:54 PM
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Re: A question about the Bible

This is really easy to refute-

Matthew 24:26-27
26"So if anyone tells you, 'There he is, out in the desert,' do not go out; or, 'Here he is, in the inner rooms,' do not believe it. 27For as lightning that comes from the east is visible even in the west, so will be the coming of the Son of Man."

It is made clear in biblical prophecy that Christ will return after the antichrist presents himself as God (5"So when you see standing in the holy place 'the abomination that causes desolation,' spoken of through the prophet Daniel) in the holy place (Israel) after the rebuilding of the temple of God.

2 Thessalonians 2: 1-4

1Concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered to him, we ask you, brothers, 2not to become easily unsettled or alarmed by some prophecy, report or letter supposed to have come from us, saying that the day of the Lord has already come. 3Don't let anyone deceive you in any way, for (that day will not come) until the rebellion occurs and the man of lawlessness[a] is revealed, the man doomed to destruction. 4He will oppose and will exalt himself over everything that is called God or is worshiped, so that he sets himself up in God's temple, proclaiming himself to be God.

Anyone who thinks Christ is returning in Israel is greatly deceived and one would ask who is causing this deception? Because everything in the Biblical prophecy points to the antichrist's apocalypse (revelation/disclosure) happening in Israel after Solomon's temple is rebuilt. Christ cannot return until the day of armageddon (when the kings of the world unite to wage war against Christ). The Bible says when Christ returns he will come in the clouds riding a white horse.

Revelations 19: 11-21

The Rider on the White Horse

11I saw heaven standing open and there before me was a white horse, whose rider is called Faithful and True. With justice he judges and makes war. 12His eyes are like blazing fire, and on his head are many crowns. He has a name written on him that no one knows but he himself. 13He is dressed in a robe dipped in blood, and his name is the Word of God. 14The armies of heaven were following him, riding on white horses and dressed in fine linen, white and clean. 15Out of his mouth comes a sharp sword with which to strike down the nations. "He will rule them with an iron scepter."[a] He treads the winepress of the fury of the wrath of God Almighty. 16On his robe and on his thigh he has this name written:
KING OF KINGS AND LORD OF LORDS.
17And I saw an angel standing in the sun, who cried in a loud voice to all the birds flying in midair, "Come, gather together for the great supper of God, 18so that you may eat the flesh of kings, generals, and mighty men, of horses and their riders, and the flesh of all people, free and slave, small and great."

19Then I saw the beast and the kings of the earth and their armies gathered together to make war against the rider on the horse and his army. 20But the beast was captured, and with him the false prophet who had performed the miraculous signs on his behalf. With these signs he had deluded those who had received the mark of the beast and worshiped his image. The two of them were thrown alive into the fiery lake of burning sulfur. 21The rest of them were killed with the sword that came out of the mouth of the rider on the horse, and all the birds gorged themselves on their flesh.

The bible is clear that many will be deceived and believe the antichrist is Christ returning, but Christians are called to be aware of this deception (the one the NORML54601 has mentioned):

2 Thessalonians 2:3-4

3Don't let anyone deceive you in any way, for (that day will not come) until the rebellion occurs and the man of lawlessness[a] is revealed, the man doomed to destruction. 4He will oppose and will exalt himself over everything that is called God or is worshiped, so that he sets himself up in God's temple, proclaiming himself to be God.

The bible says the Kings of the earth (politicians) do support the antichrist, so preparing the stage for his apocalypse does seem to be their objective in Israel.

If you're interested in knowing how the UN/United States/kings of the world are involved in working with the antichrist this video may spike your interest:

<object width="640" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/X3awzkZChD4?fs=1&amp;hl=en_US"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/X3awzkZChD4?fs=1&amp;hl=en_US" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="640" height="385"></embed></object>

<object width="640" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/A85Bcz7zGRE?fs=1&amp;hl=en_US"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/A85Bcz7zGRE?fs=1&amp;hl=en_US" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="640" height="385"></embed></object>

<object width="640" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/wnTdXdYS-fs?fs=1&amp;hl=en_US"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/wnTdXdYS-fs?fs=1&amp;hl=en_US" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="640" height="385"></embed></object>

Here's the full documentary Aquarius: The Age of Evil

<object width="410" height="341" id="veohFlashPlayer" name="veohFlashPlayer"><param name="movie" value="http://www.veoh.com/static/swf/webplayer/WebPlayer.swf?version=AFrontend.5.5.2.1075&permalinkId=v20146951ZnPmpK9j&player=videodetailsembedded &videoAutoPlay=0&id=anonymous"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.veoh.com/static/swf/webplayer/WebPlayer.swf?version=AFrontend.5.5.2.1075&permalinkId=v20146951ZnPmpK9j&player=videodetailsembedded &videoAutoPlay=0&id=anonymous" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="410" height="341" id="veohFlashPlayerEmbed" name="veohFlashPlayerEmbed"></embed></object><br /><font size="1">Watch <a href="http://www.veoh.com/browse/videos/category/educational_and_howto/watch/v20146951ZnPmpK9j">Aquarius: The Age Of Evil</a> in <a href="http://www.veoh.com/browse/videos/category/educational_and_howto">Educational &amp; How-To</a>&nbsp;&nbsp;|&nbsp;&nbsp;View More <a href="http://www.veoh.com">Free Videos Online at Veoh.com</a></font>

Last edited by Guarddog; 08-20-10 at 12:09 AM.
Old 08-20-10, 12:03 AM
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Re: A question about the Bible

Originally Posted by NORML54601 View Post
The reason I ask is cause of a pretentious, know-it-all, conspiracy theory nut that I'd like to prove is off on his facts. Basically, his theory is this: The reason that the US is such an ardent protector of Israel isn't to preserve democracy in the region, but rather that most legislators are Christian and believe Jesus will return in Israel and that said legislators are worried if he returned to an Islamic republic. Also, I know nothing about Islam, but isn't Jesus regarded as a prophet to them? I know this sounds batshit crazy and please feel free to laugh at him cause we sure do, but I want to know if the argument has any theoretical merit. Again, please keep it civil
I didn't actually read this, but it is awesome. Leaders are worried that Jesus would return to an Islamic Republic. As though (assuming one believed in this) that Jesus would begin to return, look down and think, "Crap, is this even the right place?"

Suppose Jesus decided to return to an Islamic Republic. If that was his choice, do Christian leaders actually believe they could keep it from happening?

That's pretty out there. Shouldn't take much to refute with a reasonable man, but beware....a reasonable man would not make such arguments to begin with.
Old 08-20-10, 12:06 AM
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Re: A question about the Bible

Originally Posted by Guarddog View Post
3Don't let anyone deceive you in any way, for (that day will not come) until the rebellion occurs and the man of lawlessness[a] is revealed, the man doomed to destruction. 4He will oppose and will exalt himself over everything that is called God or is worshiped, so that he sets himself up in God's temple, proclaiming himself to be God.
By the way. Everyone knows this is about Obama. Even liberal Democrats, but they won't let you know that they believe it because they want to make sure no one catches on to their plan.

See, now that is the beauty of a conspiracy theory. Evidence to the contrary is actually evidence for, and only goes to prove just how deep the conspiracy runs. You will not defeat a conspiracy theorist with words.
Old 08-20-10, 12:19 AM
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Re: A question about the Bible

I'd be willing to bet that if Jesus, as powerful as he describes himself at the second coming, goes "wait, what? I can't land there, those Muslims! Curse them!" when he gets to Jerusalem, I'm pretty sure that's not Jesus.
Old 08-20-10, 12:21 AM
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Re: A question about the Bible

Originally Posted by Guarddog View Post
If you're interested in knowing how the UN/United States/kings of the world are involved in working with the antichrist this video may spike your interest:

<object width="640" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/X3awzkZChD4?fs=1&amp;hl=en_US"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/X3awzkZChD4?fs=1&amp;hl=en_US" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="640" height="385"></embed></object>

<object width="640" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/A85Bcz7zGRE?fs=1&amp;hl=en_US"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/A85Bcz7zGRE?fs=1&amp;hl=en_US" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="640" height="385"></embed></object>

<object width="640" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/wnTdXdYS-fs?fs=1&amp;hl=en_US"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/wnTdXdYS-fs?fs=1&amp;hl=en_US" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="640" height="385"></embed></object>

Here's the full documentary Aquarius: The Age of Evil

<object width="410" height="341" id="veohFlashPlayer" name="veohFlashPlayer"><param name="movie" value="http://www.veoh.com/static/swf/webplayer/WebPlayer.swf?version=AFrontend.5.5.2.1075&permalinkId=v20146951ZnPmpK9j&player=videodetailsembedded &videoAutoPlay=0&id=anonymous"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.veoh.com/static/swf/webplayer/WebPlayer.swf?version=AFrontend.5.5.2.1075&permalinkId=v20146951ZnPmpK9j&player=videodetailsembedded &videoAutoPlay=0&id=anonymous" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="410" height="341" id="veohFlashPlayerEmbed" name="veohFlashPlayerEmbed"></embed></object><br /><font size="1">Watch <a href="http://www.veoh.com/browse/videos/category/educational_and_howto/watch/v20146951ZnPmpK9j">Aquarius: The Age Of Evil</a> in <a href="http://www.veoh.com/browse/videos/category/educational_and_howto">Educational &amp; How-To</a>&nbsp;&nbsp;|&nbsp;&nbsp;View More <a href="http://www.veoh.com">Free Videos Online at Veoh.com</a></font>
Hoooooooly shit, dude.
Old 08-20-10, 12:26 AM
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Re: A question about the Bible

Great question(s) OP. The whole Left Behind/End Times is part of a movement called Dispensationalism. Not surprisingly this became more popular in the decades leading up to 2000. From what I've read it is entirely unBiblical. What they do is take single verses from throughout the Bible and string them together in a cookie cutter manner which gives them what they want it to say.(and even then it makes no sense) I think we can all agree this is a bad way to study anything. The truth is the end times has been a profitable industry for authors and speakers. I would just avoid anything you hear about the AntiChrist (which is not a person but false teaching), Biblical Prophecy, significance of Israel, etc. It's embarrassing, and hopefully it goes away as folks wise up to it.

Here's a blog that's been very helpful for me:
http://againstdispensationalism.blogspot.com/

Last edited by Artman; 08-20-10 at 12:50 AM.
Old 08-20-10, 12:30 AM
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Re: A question about the Bible

Originally Posted by kvrdave View Post
By the way. Everyone knows this is about Obama. Even liberal Democrats, but they won't let you know that they believe it because they want to make sure no one catches on to their plan.

See, now that is the beauty of a conspiracy theory. Evidence to the contrary is actually evidence for, and only goes to prove just how deep the conspiracy runs. You will not defeat a conspiracy theorist with words.
Speaking Biblically, Obama can't be the antichrist. The antichrist/man of lawlessness in the bible is not revealed to the masses until the day he declares himself as God. A synonym for the apocalypse of the antichrist would be the revelation of the one who puts himself in place of Christ. So if i were theorizing with a fellow Christian it would be easy to disprove his/her belief that Obama is the antichrist simply by using scripture.
Old 08-20-10, 12:33 AM
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Re: A question about the Bible

Originally Posted by NORML54601 View Post
The reason I ask is cause of a pretentious, know-it-all, conspiracy theory nut that I'd like to prove is off on his facts. Basically, his theory is this: The reason that the US is such an ardent protector of Israel isn't to preserve democracy in the region, but rather that most legislators are Christian and believe Jesus will return in Israel and that said legislators are worried if he returned to an Islamic republic.
Sort of. There are a number of Christian sects that believe they can, as Voegelin put it, "immanentize the eschaton" by bringing about the conditions necessary for the apocalypse here on Earth. In the 19th Century this often took the form of utopian schemers who felt if they could make a perfect world, Jesus would have to come back for his thousand year reign of peace. In modern times, however, this view is more often found among pre-millennial tribulationists who aren't interested in perfecting society so much as ensuring the prophesy of St. John's Revelation comes to be. Since St. John mentioned Israel, the tribulationists think the US must support Israel until the rapture, after which the Jews will be at the mercy of the anti-Christ while the good Christians are yucking it up in heaven.

However, this is a minority view that has little effect on US/Israeli relations -- notice that Clinton and G.H.W. Bush stood by Israel as much as G.W. Bush.

Also, I know nothing about Islam, but isn't Jesus regarded as a prophet to them?
Not only do Muslim's believe Jesus was a prophet, they believe in the Second Coming as well. However, in Muslim tradition Jesus never died but ascended bodily to heaven, and will return to help the Mahdi in the last battle.
Old 08-20-10, 12:42 AM
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Re: A question about the Bible

Originally Posted by Artman View Post
Great question(s) OP. The whole Left Behind/End Times is part of a movement called Dispensationalism. Not surprisingly this became more popular in the decades leading up to 2000. From what I've read it is entirely unBiblical. What they do is take single verses from throughout the Bible and string them together in a cookie cutter manner which gives them what they want it to say.(and even then it makes no sense) I think we can all agree this is a bad way to study anything. The truth is the end times has been a profitable industry for authors and speakers. I would just avoid anything you hear about the AntiChrist (which is not a person but false teaching), Biblical Prophecy, significance of Israel, etc. It's embarrassing, and hopefully it goes way as folks wise up to it.

Here's a blog that's been very helpful for me:
http://againstdispensationalism.blogspot.com/
Yea there has been a lot of twisting and misinformation, but I think the Bible is clear that antichrist is both a false teaching and world figure-

1 John 2:18-19
18Dear children, this is the last hour; and as you have heard that the antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have come. This is how we know it is the last hour. 19They went out from us, but they did not really belong to us. For if they had belonged to us, they would have remained with us; but their going showed that none of them belonged to us.

So if many antichrists have come who is the singular antichrist john is talking about? The bible refers to him in many names...

In reference to 2 Thessalonians 2 http://www.bible.ca says...

The reason that they should not be shaken is that the coming of Jesus would not take place until there was a falling away and until there was the revealing of "the man of lawlessness, the son of destruction" (vs. 3). A time would come when "because lawlessness is increased, most people's love will grow cold" (Matt. 24:12). This would be a "falling away." Then there would also be a man of lawlessness, one who would have "contempt and violation of law" (Thayer, p. 42). This man would act with utter contempt for God and His way. He is called the "son of destruction." Apoleia: "the destruction which consists in the loss of eternal life, eternal misery, perdition ... a man doomed to eternal misery. 2 Th 2:3" (Thayer, p. 71). This man of sin would be eternally damned as a result of his godless iniquity and opposition to all that is holy. In verse 4 this man of sin "opposes and exalts himself above every so-called god (all that is called God) or object of worship so that he takes his seat in the temple of God displaying himself as being God." His lawlessness consists in opposing God and God's people and in exalting himself to a position of honor and worship that belongs only to Deity. He claims a higher position than could ever belong to man, a position in which he demands worship from man.

So when you hear people say antichrist they aren't referring to the antichrists but a singular person, this man of lawlessness mentioned in the Biblical prophecy that comes before Christ second coming, when Christ comes to destroy the antichrist and the world he controls. This man of lawlessness (not void of man's law but void of God's law) will control a one world government and a one world religion). If this sounds so far fetched, I would encourage you to watch the full documentary I posted... one world government and religion is exactly what the New Age religion seeks to establish under the rule of their coming "messiah".

Last edited by Guarddog; 08-20-10 at 12:47 AM.
Old 08-20-10, 12:54 AM
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Re: A question about the Bible

Originally Posted by Sean O'Hara View Post
Sort of. There are a number of Christian sects that believe they can, as Voegelin put it, "immanentize the eschaton" by bringing about the conditions necessary for the apocalypse here on Earth. In the 19th Century this often took the form of utopian schemers who felt if they could make a perfect world, Jesus would have to come back for his thousand year reign of peace. In modern times, however, this view is more often found among pre-millennial tribulationists who aren't interested in perfecting society so much as ensuring the prophesy of St. John's Revelation comes to be. Since St. John mentioned Israel, the tribulationists think the US must support Israel until the rapture, after which the Jews will be at the mercy of the anti-Christ while the good Christians are yucking it up in heaven.

However, this is a minority view that has little effect on US/Israeli relations -- notice that Clinton and G.H.W. Bush stood by Israel as much as G.W. Bush.



Not only do Muslim's believe Jesus was a prophet, they believe in the Second Coming as well. However, in Muslim tradition Jesus never died but ascended bodily to heaven, and will return to help the Mahdi in the last battle.
New world order/one world government is exactly what the reign of the antichrist is defined by and any person trying to bring utopia to earth will love the antichrist system because the antichrist will come proclaiming to bring peace but will destroy many people in the name of peace.

(Daniel 8:23-25) And in the end time of their rule, when evil men are at their worst state, a ruler with a powerful look and able to understand mysterious sayings, shall rise up.

And he will have very great power, but his power is not from himself (it is spiritual): and he shall destroy terribly, and shall be successful, and accomplish, and shall destroy the mighty and the holy people.

And through his policy also he shall spread deceit; and he shall exalt himself in his own heart, and in the name of peace he shall destroy many. He shall also stand up against Christ; but he shall be destroyed by Him and not by the hand of man."
Old 08-20-10, 12:58 AM
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Re: A question about the Bible

Originally Posted by Guarddog View Post
Speaking Biblically, Obama can't be the antichrist. The antichrist/man of lawlessness in the bible is not revealed to the masses until the day he declares himself as God. A synonym for the apocalypse of the antichrist would be the revelation of the one who puts himself in place of Christ. So if i were theorizing with a fellow Christian it would be easy to disprove his/her belief that Obama is the antichrist simply by using scripture.
Ah, Obama is not revealed as the antichrist to the masses yet, so it still holds. Only myself, and a select group who understand just how deep the conspiracy is even begin to grasp this. Soon it will be revealed to you and the rest of the masses as well. The fact that you can't discern this in the Bible only further proves how right I am about this conspiracy.
Old 08-20-10, 01:00 AM
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Re: A question about the Bible

Originally Posted by Rockmjd23 View Post
Yes you can tell wm lopez his facts are wrong.


Originally Posted by Joe Camel View Post
A lot of the evangelicals claim that one of the signs of Jesus returning is the establishment of Israel, as prophesized in the Bible. I'm curious to see where thats stated...
This actually comes from the Old Testament, which says that the messiah (in the Old Testament specified as a descendant of King David and anointed as the Jewish king) will rule the Jews in the land of Israel. Since Christians believe that Jesus is the messiah foretold of in the Old Testament, some believe that the formation of Israel is a sign that Jesus will return (even though A) Jesus was not a descendant of David, and B) the messiah as mentioned in the Old Testament is specifically for the Jews).
Old 08-20-10, 01:04 AM
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Re: A question about the Bible

Originally Posted by Suprmallet View Post




This actually comes from the Old Testament, which says that the messiah (in the Old Testament specified as a descendant of King David and anointed as the Jewish king) will rule the Jews in the land of Israel. Since Christians believe that Jesus is the messiah foretold of in the Old Testament, some believe that the formation of Israel is a sign that Jesus will return (even though A) Jesus was not a descendant of David, and B) the messiah as mentioned in the Old Testament is specifically for the Jews).
A. Matthew 1

B. The Old Testament prophecies said Christ would be rejected by Jews (Psalm 118:22; I Peter 2:7; Isaiah 53:3)
Old 08-20-10, 02:02 AM
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Re: A question about the Bible

I'm sure that Suprmallet means that Joseph didn't donate sperm, and the lineage of David comes from Joseph, thus Jesus was not a descendant of David.

Admittedly a weak argument if you understand the culture of the time, but a decent argument if you assume our culture is what the Bible was talking about.

edit: Actually, I recall that the geneology of both Joseph and Mary go back to David. I could be wrong on that, but I think that is right. I'll look it up tomorrow. Either way, silly argument. But it will make this into a longer thread, no doubt.

Last edited by kvrdave; 08-20-10 at 02:08 AM.
Old 08-20-10, 02:17 AM
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Re: A question about the Bible

Originally Posted by kvrdave View Post
I'm sure that Suprmallet means that Joseph didn't donate sperm, and the lineage of David comes from Joseph, thus Jesus was not a descendant of David.

Admittedly a weak argument if you understand the culture of the time, but a decent argument if you assume our culture is what the Bible was talking about.

edit: Actually, I recall that the geneology of both Joseph and Mary go back to David. I could be wrong on that, but I think that is right. I'll look it up tomorrow. Either way, silly argument. But it will make this into a longer thread, no doubt.
Well, certainly the Bible might use the word descendant in a general sense (as in all Jews are "descendants" of Abraham). But Judaism also has some very specific lineages that are mentioned in the Old Testament, as well as an entire group (the Levites), who are the only ones who can be priests. Because of that, and the fact that the Bible is rather explicit about how only David's sons will be the Kings of Israel, I think that the messiah isn't something that would be played fast and loose with.

I never heard that Mary's lineage can be traced back to David.

Originally Posted by Guarddog View Post
A. Matthew 1
How can Joseph be Jesus' father if God is Jesus' father and Mary had a virgin birth?

Originally Posted by Guarddog View Post
B. The Old Testament prophecies said Christ would be rejected by Jews (Psalm 118:22; I Peter 2:7; Isaiah 53:3)
That is if you presume that Christ is what those things are talking about. Also, Psalms are not prophecies.

I found this link, which tries to answer the question, and employs the most wonderfully tortured logic (with all the contradictions in both the Old and New Testament, it's funny how people try to reconcile incompatible genealogies by saying that "Son" suddenly means "Son-In-Law") to try and reconcile the contradictions: http://gracethrufaith.com/ask-a-bibl...age-incorrect/

I just want to note I'm not bringing this stuff up to be a jerk or start arguments. It's an academic question I always found interesting. I always thought David and Solomon and their legends were the most interesting parts of the Judeo-Christian mythologies. In Islam, Solomon is even more interesting, being able to command genies and demons and talk to animals and possessing all sorts of powers.

Last edited by Supermallet; 08-20-10 at 02:45 AM.
Old 08-20-10, 02:25 AM
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Re: A question about the Bible

Maybe it's in one of the many volumes discovered in the last several hundred years that was edited out of the bible and the Catholic church decided not tell anyone but your crazy friend.

If you think the bible is in fact literally true, that idea isn't that far out into the realm of crazy-talk.
Old 08-20-10, 06:28 AM
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Re: A question about the Bible

As an aside, I had always thought that the idea of the antichrist revealing himself by declaring himself god was weird. Who would declare himself god? But this year, I've started reading The Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire. I've learned that most Roman emperors, starting from before Christ and lasting until the empire was Christianized a couple hundred years later, declared themselves gods.
Old 08-20-10, 06:40 AM
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Re: A question about the Bible

And given that Revelations was most likely a veiled reference to the Roman Emperor Nero, that connection makes a lot of sense.
Old 08-20-10, 07:13 AM
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Re: A question about the Bible

Originally Posted by Suprmallet View Post
And given that Revelations was most likely a veiled reference to the Roman Emperor Nero, that connection makes a lot of sense.
Yes, there's a lot of different opinions on the Book of Revelations among Christian scholars. Many (including, I believe, Martin Luther) didn't feel the book should have even been included in the Bible. Many others read it, as Suprmallet said, as referencing then-current times and Rome.

I believe Christ specifically said he would return before "this generation passes", and most early Christians expected him to return in their lifetimes. And he also said no one may know the time or place, as referenced earlier. That's the challenging thing about the Bible. It's a book of spiritual truths, and those spiritual truths intersect with pure mythology at times (Genesis), and with hard history at other times (lots of the New Testament)---and it's difficult to tell where one begins and the other ends. And of course, Christ's preferred method of communicating spiritual truths was to use parables an analogies.

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