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Amanda Knox/ Italian Murder Case

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Amanda Knox/ Italian Murder Case

Old 01-31-14, 02:23 AM
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Re: Amanda Knox/ Italian Murder Case

Originally Posted by mhg83 View Post
U.S. should extradite her to Italy if she was in fact found guilty. How would the U.S. feel if Edward Snowden was hiding in Italy and they refused to extradite him back to the U.S.?
European countries constantly refuse to extradite people to the U.S. because they disagree with the death penalty. We should certainly refuse on the grounds that double jeopardy is against our constitution.

I've been to Italy and had been planning to spend some time in Rome in the near future but I am scrapping that idea immediately and am in addition going to boycott Italian goods. They hate us so much they'll convict a chick who did nothing, even when they already have the real murderer in jail.

I do feel awful for Sollecito for getting swept up in that backward country's war against American "satan-worshipping sluts".
Old 01-31-14, 02:52 AM
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Re: Amanda Knox/ Italian Murder Case

I live in Naples Italy and trust me when I say even the Italians know their court system is a fucking joke. The US will not give her back to the Italians and honestly the Italians don't have a leg to stand on.
Old 01-31-14, 07:42 AM
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Re: Amanda Knox/ Italian Murder Case

Why are people so quick to defend this woman? My first reaction was the the USA should not extradite her. But why was that my reaction? Because I fell for her story? Perhaps? The Italians aren't complete morons - there was evidence presented and she was found guilty - of murder. I don't know enough to make a definitive opinion but it appears on the surface she's trying to skate out of this using her American good looks for American sympathy. Honor the treaty.
Old 01-31-14, 07:49 AM
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Re: Amanda Knox/ Italian Murder Case

Even if Knox didn't do it, she should have predicted it was going to happen, just like those scientists should have predicted the earthquake. That makes her just as guilty. Not being clairvoyant is no excuse.
Old 01-31-14, 08:02 AM
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Re: Amanda Knox/ Italian Murder Case

Originally Posted by mhg83 View Post
U.S. should extradite her to Italy if she was in fact found guilty. How would the U.S. feel if Edward Snowden was hiding in Italy and they refused to extradite him back to the U.S.?
That's not the same thing.
Old 01-31-14, 08:35 AM
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Re: Amanda Knox/ Italian Murder Case

Originally Posted by CRM114 View Post
Why are people so quick to defend this woman? My first reaction was the the USA should not extradite her. But why was that my reaction? Because I fell for her story? Perhaps? The Italians aren't complete morons - there was evidence presented and she was found guilty - of murder. I don't know enough to make a definitive opinion but it appears on the surface she's trying to skate out of this using her American good looks for American sympathy. Honor the treaty.
Because the Italian "justice system" is habitually guilty of retarded decisions like this
Old 01-31-14, 09:13 AM
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Re: Amanda Knox/ Italian Murder Case

Originally Posted by CRM114 View Post
Why are people so quick to defend this woman?
Same reason people say "not guilty" about women on Otter threads because they look hot.
Old 01-31-14, 10:11 AM
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Re: Amanda Knox/ Italian Murder Case

Originally Posted by CRM114 View Post
Why are people so quick to defend this woman? My first reaction was the the USA should not extradite her. But why was that my reaction? Because I fell for her story? Perhaps? The Italians aren't complete morons - there was evidence presented and she was found guilty - of murder. I don't know enough to make a definitive opinion but it appears on the surface she's trying to skate out of this using her American good looks for American sympathy. Honor the treaty.
Well, I'd say partly because the italians, at least the prosecutor and CSI/lab people in this case ARE morons. There is plenty of evidence that the csi people overlooked items for weeks that were left at the crime scene, cross contaminated other pieces of evidence, and did destructive dna testing that precludes further testing by 3rd parties. The prosecutor is a full blown loon who sees satanic cults in every crime, and was convicted of misconduct himself shortly after these 2 were initially convicted. The prosecution has changed their entire theory on the crime between trials from crazy satanic sex game gone wrong, to more simply that an argument took place because the guy who is already in jail for this murder didn't flush the toilet after taking a dump. The whole thing is a joke.

This is from the same country that convicted 6 scientists of manslaughter and sentenced them to 6 years for failing to predict an earthquake. Their justice system is 1 stop short of a kangaroo court.
Old 01-31-14, 10:55 AM
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Re: Amanda Knox/ Italian Murder Case

Originally Posted by Jeremy517 View Post
There is a boatload of evidence. It is circumstantial, but there is nothing preventing conviction when the evidence is overwhelming. Having read more about the case than probably anyone here (start with the Massei report if you want to come to your own conclusion), I am very confident that she and Sollecito did it, while Guede was also present.
What evidence is there that she did it or was present at the time?
Old 01-31-14, 11:04 AM
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Re: Amanda Knox/ Italian Murder Case

She admitted playing a role and being there and then later recanted, I believe.
Old 01-31-14, 11:08 AM
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Re: Amanda Knox/ Italian Murder Case

False confessions are quite common, especially when one is under duress for extended periods. There is plenty of documented evidence and studies showing this. And that's for interrogations in the suspect's home country in their native language.
Old 01-31-14, 11:10 AM
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Re: Amanda Knox/ Italian Murder Case

Originally Posted by Duran View Post
False confessions are quite common, especially when one is under duress for extended periods. There is plenty of documented evidence and studies showing this. And that's for interrogations in the suspect's home country in their native language.
This is very true, but a confession pretty much "seals the deal" for most juries, especially since they're typically only shown the confession and not the hours of ordeal leading up it (i.e. Paradise Lost). "Why would an innocent person confess?"
Old 01-31-14, 11:17 AM
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Re: Amanda Knox/ Italian Murder Case

Agreed, but I don't consider it substantive evidence she committed the crime. I haven't heard of any evidence in this case, which I why I'm curious why Jeremy517 thinks she did it.
Old 01-31-14, 11:19 AM
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Re: Amanda Knox/ Italian Murder Case

Originally Posted by Duran View Post
False confessions are quite common, especially when one is under duress for extended periods. There is plenty of documented evidence and studies showing this. And that's for interrogations in the suspect's home country in their native language.
She wasn't under duress.

I'm going to copy/paste a bunch of stuff I posted on another forum a long time ago, because I don't feel like typing anything out again:

Everything she said prior to 1:45 AM (including the original admission) was not admissible as evidence, because she was still a witness at that time.

At 1:45 AM, she was informed that she was no longer being treated as a witness, but instead was being treated as a suspect. She was then informed that she would not be asked any more questions until she got a lawyer, but that she could choose to make a spontaneous statement if she wished. She declined, and she was taken to a cell, where she was given dinner. At 5:45 AM, she chose to make a spontaneous statement, and she repeated her same confession. This was the confession that was used as evidence. It was not the result of interrogation, as she was not being interrogated at the time. She chose to give it out of her own free will.
Old 01-31-14, 11:24 AM
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Re: Amanda Knox/ Italian Murder Case

Originally Posted by Duran View Post
What evidence is there that she did it or was present at the time?
I'm again going to copy/paste a bunch of stuff that wrote a while back on another forum, because I definitely don't want to type this stuff again:

<b>Their original alibi:</b>

Knox and Sollecito claim to have been at Sollecito's house all night. Sollecito's computer was on all night, but there was no human interaction after 6:27 PM, when they started a movie. A witness said she saw Knox leave Sollecito's home at 8:40 PM.

A second witness says that he saw Knox and Sollecito in the public square above Knox's cottage after 9:30 PM. He saw them again at 11:00 PM, and testified that they would walk to the edge of the square and look down on the cottage.

Knox and Sollecito claim they slept until 10:00 or 10:30 AM, but Sollecito's phone was turned on (it had been off all evening) at 6:02 AM. The defense claimed that his cat turned it on. A third witness, the owner of a store near Sollecito's home, testified that he saw Knox at 7:45 AM.

Four days later, Sollecito, when confronted on the holes in his story, changed his story to say that Amanda asked him to lie. His story was now that he was home all night, but that Amanda had left to go to a club with friends. He said that she was possibly wearing different clothes when she returned to his house at 1:00 AM.

When confronted with the news that Sollecito changed his story, Knox changed her story, and gave the aforementioned confession. In the morning, she changed her story to the false accusation of Patrick Lumumba.

<b>Suspicious stuff from the day the body was found:</b>

At 12:07 PM, Amanda calls Meredith's phone. At 12:08 PM, Amanda calls Filomena and tells her about the blood. She does not tell Filomena about that locked door, or the supposed burglary. Filomena asks her to call Meredith. Amanda does not tell her about the call that she made one minute earlier.

At 12:11, Amanda makes a call to Meredith's Italian phone and a call to her english phone. The calls last three seconds and four seconds, respectively. Long enough to for the phone company to note that a call was made, but way too short to go to voice mail or wait for Meredith to answer. Amanda later said in an email that she called Meredith's Italian phone but that it just rang and rang. Given that the call was only three seconds, this was not true.

Postal police arrive at 12:30 PM. At 12:51 PM and 12:54 PM, Sollecito makes calls to 112 (the Italian version of 9-1-1). That's right. 20 minutes after the police were already there, he called the Italian version of 911 to report that someone had broken into the house and that there was blood.

Amanda would later tell people that Meredith died by the closet. She did die by the closet, right, so no big deal? The problem is that while Meredith died by the closet, the body was moved away from the closet. Amanda knew that Meredith died by the closet before the police even knew.

Amanda also knew that Meredith's throat was cut. She claims to have heard it from "someone" who was at the cottage when Meredith's door was kicked open, but none of the people who were present when the door was kicked open knew that. All they saw of Meredith was a foot. Amanda never gave a name for who told her about the throat, because that person would have been able to refute her claim.

<b>The staged break-in:</b>

<img src="http://img2u.info/ckgni/i/gf74c320a.jpg">

Filomena's window is at the top of the picture, 13 feet off the ground. Filomena testified that the shutters were swollen and required a lot of force to open. She also testified that she closed the shutters.

To break in through Filomena's window, a burglar would have to scale a 13-foot wall, hope the shutters weren't latched, somehow maintain a hold while he forced the shutters open, continue the acrobatics while he broke the window, opened the window, and climbed into the room. All of this without leaving any trace of himself on the building, window, shutters, or in Filomena's room.

Oh yes, there was also a staged rape. If there really was a burglar, why would he stage a rape? That makes absolutely no sense.

<b>Problems with the timeline and story, if Rudy was acting alone:</b>

Yet another witness testified that Rudy was running away from the scene shortly after the scream. However, we know that the bathroom was thoroughly cleaned, footprints were cleaned, and that the body was moved. Rudy didn't have time to do that prior to running away from the scene.

It would have taken him roughly 15 minutes to get to the spot where Meredith's phones were dumped, plus another 15 if he theoretically were to come back to the scene. Would he really risk coming back to the scene? The benefits of cleaning far outweigh the risk of getting caught. Also, don't forgot that we have a witness who saw Sollecito and Knox coming in and out of the the square above the cottage at the time that Rudy would have to have been doing the cleanup. Rudy was seen by witness in a club a short while later, so the window for him to be doing the cleaning is right when Sollecito and Knox were there.

Another problem with the Rudy-acting-alone theory: after hearing the scream, the same witness who saw Rudy running also heard other people in a different direction.

Yet another problem with the Rudy-acting-alone story: Meredith's wounds were consistent with multiple attackers. She had 47 cuts and bruises. She was punched from both the right and left side. She had bruises on her arm consistent with her arms being held behind her back (which is why there were no knife defense wounds). Medical examiners testified that more than two hands were involved in the attack.

<b>The footprints:</b>

I mentioned these earlier, but a little more detail:

A bloody footprint was found on the bathmat. Size-wise, it was a dead-on match to Sollecito's foot.

A second bloody footprint was found on a pillow that was found near Meredith's body. The footprint was a woman's size 37 or 38 (roughly a size 7 in the US). That is the size shoe that Amanda wears.

<b>The knife:</b>

A knife was found at Sollecito's. Amanda's DNA was found on the handle. That could be reasonable, of course, however Meredith's DNA was found on the business end of the knife. The defense argued that the sample was too small to properly determine if it was Meredith's.

<b>The bra clasp:</b>

It was, of course, collected long after the original crime scene investigation. However, it had Sollecito's DNA on it. This was not a contamination issue, because there was no source of Sollecito's DNA present, so there was nothing else that could have been the source of the DNA.

<b>Amanda's injuries</b>

Amanda had a scratch on her neck the day after the murder. Multiple people testified that it had not been seen the day before. Her lower earring had also been ripped out.

<img src="http://img2u.info/ckgni/i/g3a9028bb.jpg">
Old 01-31-14, 11:25 AM
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Re: Amanda Knox/ Italian Murder Case

Is there any evidence beyond her confession? Is there any evidence that collaborates her confession?

Are you arguing that being put in a jail cell as a murder suspect in a foreign country isn't duress?
Old 01-31-14, 11:27 AM
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Re: Amanda Knox/ Italian Murder Case

There you have it. A brief overview of the case against them. I'm probably forgot some stuff when I originally wrote all that, but you get the idea. If you are genuinely curious still, you should read the Massei report and come to your own informed conclusion.
Old 01-31-14, 11:28 AM
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Re: Amanda Knox/ Italian Murder Case

Originally Posted by Duran View Post
Is there any evidence beyond her confession?
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Old 01-31-14, 11:31 AM
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Re: Amanda Knox/ Italian Murder Case

Knife found had Knox's DNA on it but not one trace of blood or fluids.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-24534110
Even if you are to believe it had trace amounts of Meredith's DNA on it where is the blood or fluids from the stabbing? The experts interviewed believe it may have been cross contamination.

The bra strap evidence was thrown out because of so many issues with the way it was handled and what about a third unknown person's DNA on it?

Anyway, there was lots of DNA in the room where Kercher was killed ... all of it matched either Kercher or Rudy Guede. If it was such a bloody scene why were there no trace of Knox or Sollecito's DNA in the room?
Old 01-31-14, 11:40 AM
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Re: Amanda Knox/ Italian Murder Case

As far as extradition is concerned I think the US should invoke the Picard defense in "Justice" for this unjust trial process.
Old 01-31-14, 11:48 AM
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Re: Amanda Knox/ Italian Murder Case

Originally Posted by chowderhead View Post
The bra strap evidence was thrown out because of so many issues with the way it was handled and what about a third unknown person's DNA on it?
The bra clasp wasn't thrown out. Sollecito's DNA was found on it, and there was no source of contamination, as it was just sitting in the apartment the whole time.

The problems with the clasp that are usually brought up are that it was not collected until much later, and that it had been moved a few feet from where it was originally photographed. However, since it remained in the apartment the whole time, there is no way that it could have become contaminated with Sollecito's DNA, thus it was allowed to remain as evidence.
Old 01-31-14, 11:59 AM
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Re: Amanda Knox/ Italian Murder Case

Originally Posted by wishbone View Post
As far as extradition is concerned I think the US should invoke the Picard defense in "Justice" for this unjust trial process.
I love you so much right now. <3
Old 01-31-14, 12:19 PM
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Re: Amanda Knox/ Italian Murder Case

Originally Posted by Jeremy517 View Post
I'm probably forgot some stuff when I originally wrote all that, but you get the idea. If you are genuinely curious still, you should read the Massei report and come to your own informed conclusion.
So everything you wrote is your filtered version of the opinion of the Italian judge who sentenced Knox to begin with? Doesn't seem like much of an "informed conclusion" to me given the unreliability of the Italian judicial system.
Old 01-31-14, 12:33 PM
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Re: Amanda Knox/ Italian Murder Case

Originally Posted by Jeremy517 View Post
The bra clasp wasn't thrown out. Sollecito's DNA was found on it, and there was no source of contamination, as it was just sitting in the apartment the whole time.

The problems with the clasp that are usually brought up are that it was not collected until much later, and that it had been moved a few feet from where it was originally photographed. However, since it remained in the apartment the whole time, there is no way that it could have become contaminated with Sollecito's DNA, thus it was allowed to remain as evidence.
Another point of contention was the discovery that a third, unknown person's DNA profile retrieved from the bra clasp was overlooked by investigators. The appeal court subsequently ruled that the evidence could no longer be relied upon.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-24534110
Old 01-31-14, 12:42 PM
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Re: Amanda Knox/ Italian Murder Case

Eventually, there's going to be a U.S. citizen in Italy that the U.S. wants to extradite, and the Italians are going to ask for Amanda Knox in exchange.

How would we feel if Jodi Arias snuck off to Italy during her trial and the Italians wouldn't give her up?

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