Xander

Penn and Teller told me not to trust chiropractors.

Deep_lurk

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisf...tic-litigation

http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2...pinal_trap.php

Living Dead

Dave7393 seems like he might be one of the angriest chiropractors on Earth.

jeffbase34

Well I've fallen a bit into the anti-chiro camp. Now I am in a situation wondering if the chiro might have done more damage than good. A week after my visit, I started getting numbness in my fingers, obvious sign of a pinched ulnar nerve which runs from the neck.


I went to my family doc who xrayed my neck again. He told me guess what, you don't have any joints out of alignment! He told me that chiros will say that to 98% of the people who come into their office.

orangecrush

Hibbert: I'm going to send you to my chiropractor.
Homer: Hey, I thought real doctors hated chiropractors.
Hibbert: Well, that is our official stance but between you, me, and my golf clubs, they're miracle workers.

I generally like Chiropractors, but think some can over-estimate their abilities to prevent desease. Some of the true believers will tell you that subluxation is the root cause of virtually all disfunction. On the other hand, given the choice between a straight spine and a crooked one, I'll choose straight.

calhoun07

Yeah, I can't say I agree that they can cure every disease by popping your back...I am not sure why they can get away with those claims and the FDA goes after General Mills for dubious claims of the power of breakfast cereal...but the other day I could barely reach with my left arm and look over my shoulder while driving because the pain in my middle back was so extreme. I went to my chiropractor (first time in a whole year) and he knew exactly what to do. I wasn't even there 5 minutes, and it was one of those situations you are thinking, "I am giving him $40.00 for that?" but the difference was instant. By the next day, the pain was completely gone.

I don't know about their disease curing claims, but I know when I get a pain in my back I can't get rid of on my own, that doctor knows exactly what to do and doesn't BS me into doing x-rays and requiring me to come back to see how I am doing. He does his job right the first time and he probably doesn't make as much money off of me as he could if he tried some BS moves (not that I would fall for it!) but I appreciate his more holistic approach.

Dave7393

Disney World was great-- I have an awesome picture from my hotel I should probably post in its own thread.

Right, as opposed to all the people who chose to bash it on a movie board with little more than the same, tired old stereotypes and lame generalizations... which is just fine, I suppose. "Verbosely defend," eh? I had a smile on my face when I was shooting down your bullshit post earlier in this thread... trust me, it wasn't too difficult.

Why, because you know me so well and I'm such a bad person?

I was thinking about why this place can seem so full of shit and such a waste of time, sometimes. Now I remember-- it's comments like yours. Ain't anonymity great?

JP5683

My family used to go to a chiropractor 3 times a week for about 2 years about 20 years ago.

We stopped going because the insurance my dad had stopped paying.

I remember he used to do this treatment where you'd hold out your arm, and he'd press on a certain part of your upper body, and if you couldn't hold your arm up, you were short on a certain vitamin/mineral.

We were taking like 5-10 supplements each.

My dad's had lots of pain, 2 back surgeries, 3 knee surgeries, 1 shoulder surgery in the last 10 years, always goes now to physical therapist, never chiropractor.

bwvanh114

Chiropractic quackery at its finest.

Dave7393

This is a diagnostic (for lack of a better word) technique called "Applied Kinesiology" that I think is nonsense, but it really has nothing to do with chiropractic care. I never learned it (it was never in any curriculum I was exposed to), and I never saw it on any of the board or licensing exams I took, which is why I don't really consider it chiropractic at all. Apparently there are chiropractors that use it, but there are also many other "holistic" (using that term broadly) practitioners from any range of disciplines who use it as well. Definitely something to skip, if you come across it.

TGM

sounds like you should be angrier at your co-practitioners than us

Dave7393

A part of my practice is dedicated to doing "peer review," which is basically auditing records of other chiropractors to determine if certain procedures should be reimbursed (the insurance company-- State Farm, etc-- hires an outside company to do the reviews, so that company is the company that hires me).

I definitely do my share of denying claims from other chiropractors. Many of my reports say, "Not Medically Necessary," which means that the chiropractor's bill doesn't get paid.

Here's an example: If you rear-end someone, and that someone ends up in a mill where multiple doctors (not only chiropractors, but MDs and PTs as well) try to milk the insurance dollar, there's a chance that a bunch of bogus charges/claims will be submitted in an attempt to justify an injury, which will come back to you (the "rear ender") in a lawsuit. I'm the guy who shoots down the bullshit claims before they even get paid, and testifies as to why I denied the claims. I had an angry D.C. call me a few weeks ago, bitching that I denied payment for his over-the-top nerve testing for his MVA patient. I had the final word on it.

So yeah, I think some chiropractors do quite a disservice to the profession, but that doesn't mean that there aren't many honest, ethical, and skilled chiropractors out there. I met with the team chiropractor for the N.Y. Giants last week; he doesn't advertise at all, doesn't have a sign outside his office, and doesn't even have a listed number, but he's very busy and gets great results. It's people like this that many of you (in this thread) never hear about.

eta: minor clarity edit

JP5683

I don't remember feeling that much different taking all these pills, I remember one I was supposed to take like 20 pills a day.

My family went to this chiropractor for about 3 years in the 90's. He's now semi-retired, his son's a chiropractor, I've seen TV commercials.

I remember he lent us these tapes from big conferences or something with another chiropractor doing these treatments.

Totally forgot the name of it, thank you.

The other thing I remember, is that I didn't particularly like him cracking my back, so he would use this little pogo stick looking thing on me.

I saw one in a catalog a couple of years ago, and tried to order one but was told they sold out... Never saw it again, lost the catalog.

Almost asked people here if they knew where to find one, but never did.

Deep_lurk

Bad idea. It is dangerous for one to attempt quack treatment of their own backs at home. If you are in need of quack medical attention, it is in your best interests to go to a real, professional quack.

http://www.chirobase.org/06DD/activator.html

http://www.chirobase.org/16Victims/hays.html

http://www.chirobase.org/05RB/BCC/00c.html

calhoun07

Insurance fraud at its finest. (If I read the post right, the dad's insurance was paying for this crap.) You can't expect me to believe that doctors in other fields don't do the same thing...prescribe medicine that isn't required. Shoot, don't get me started on my dog's vet for one.

Tommy Ceez

At least that medicine IS ACTUAL MEDICINE

Now if you were telling me that cardiologist were prescribing Tic Tacs...

big whoppa

I've never had back or neck pain so severe that an aspirin couldn't fix. I knew someone who did see a chiro and she was happy with the results. I wouldn't see a chiro after news programs like 20/20 did a story on them.

Dave7393

So as a hypothetical, is an unnecessary surgery (insurance fraud) less of a big deal than bogus muscle testing because what, it's "actual medicine?"

"'Actual Medicine," as you put it, doesn't mean anything if it's not medically necessary, which would be true in cases of insurance fraud, where medical procedures are performed that the patient doesn't need.

I think that A.K is BS, but at least bullshit muscle testing won't put someone's life at risk.

TGM

AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH I was wondering how long it would take before this argument was made! lol lol lol

Just because you got duped into dedicating your life into a profession that is akin to being a snake-oil salesman don't take it out on us!

Dave7393

What argument is that? Maybe you should bother reading what I just wrote instead of jumping in with the usual bullshit. I realize that's asking a lot. Actually, I'm sure it's asking too much of you, so don't bother.

"Snake-oil"... that's original. And what, now there's an "us" in this thread? Nice.

namrfumot

Lastyear after pulling a lat muscle from shoveling, I was MISERABLE. I has spasms in my shoulder, couldnt turn my neck, etc.

Two visits to my chiro and I was 90% better. A week later I was back to 99%.

For anything back and hip related (due to muscles) I love chiros!

solipsta

I'm a big fan of chiro. I had some intense lower back problems and went to one. It worked itself out in a couple weeks. And as much as there is no research on how other things back related are improved by chiro, I definitely found that some things did (although my chiro didn't say anything about how it would...).

calhoun07

Perhaps chiropractors would have a better reputation if they only stuck to treating people who actually needed the treatment. And, yes, I do think there are things they can do better than other doctors for certain people with certain back conditions. But when I hear about chiros trying to talk people into getting adjustments for any reason under the sun when most of the people don't need it.

It made me wonder if other doctors do this. I don't think other doctors can get away with this, really. Like a podiatrist...they deal with specific problems relating to the feet but can't just get anybody to come in to get their feet looked at for no good reason.

Deep_lurk

Sometimes, bad things do happen to bad people:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/20...-chiropractors

d2cheer

I knew before even looking at this thread the Chriopractors would not fare well.


Physical Therapy is the only way to go.