Go Back  DVD Talk Forum > General Discussions > Other Talk
Reload this Page >

YASNT: Clueless Guys Can't Read Women

Other Talk "Otterville" plus Religion/Politics

YASNT: Clueless Guys Can't Read Women

Old 03-20-08, 05:10 PM
  #1  
DVD Talk Ultimate Edition
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Lounging on the beach in L.A., frappucino in hand...
Posts: 4,275
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
YASNT: Clueless Guys Can't Read Women

(Yet Another Stupid News Thread)

Clueless Guys Can't Read Women
(story here)

Jeanna Bryner
LiveScience Staff Writer
LiveScience.com Thu Mar 20, 10:32 AM ET

More often than not, guys interpret even friendly cues, such as a subtle smile from a gal, as a sexual come-on, and a new study discovers why: Guys are clueless.

More precisely, they are somewhat oblivious to the emotional subtleties of non-verbal cues, according to a new study of college students.

"Young men just find it difficult to tell the difference between women who are being friendly and women who are interested in something more," said lead researcher Coreen Farris of Indiana University's Department of Psychological and Brain Sciences.

This "lost in translation" phenomenon plays out in the real world, with about 70 percent of college women reporting an experience in which a guy mistook her friendliness for a sexual come-on, Farris said.

Some might think the results come down to "boys being boys," and so even the slightest female interest sparks sexual fantasy. But the study, to be detailed in the April issue of the journal Psychological Science, also found that it goes both ways for guys - they mistake females' sexual signals as friendly ones. The researchers suggest guys have trouble noticing and interpreting the subtleties of non-verbal cues, in either direction.

The study's funding came from the National Institutes of Mental Health and the National Institute on Alcohol Abuse and Alcoholism.

To unravel it all, Farris and her colleagues examined non-verbal communication in a group of 280 undergraduates, both men and women with an average age of 20 years old.

The students viewed images of women on a computer screen and had to categorize each as friendly, sexually interested, sad or rejecting. Each student reported on 280 photographs, which had been sorted previously into one of the categories based on surveys completed by different groups of students.

Overall, women categorized more images correctly than men did. When it came to friendly gestures, men were more likely than women to interpret these to mean sexual interest.

More surprising, the researchers found guys were also confused by sexual cues. When images of gals meant to show allure flashed onto the screen, male students mistook the allure as amicable signals.

So ladies trying to brush off a guy at work or the gym may need to be, uh, more direct. Men in the study also had more trouble than women distinguishing between sadness and rejection.

The results help to tease out the underlying causes of guys' flirt-or-not mistakes. One common explanation for reports of men taking a friendly gesture as "she wants me," is based on men's inherent interest in sex, which is thought to result from their biology as well as their upbringing.

Following this idea, men and women would be aware of the same behavioral cues, but men would have a lower threshold for what qualifies as sexual interest. In contrast, women would wait for compelling evidence before labeling a behavior as sexual interest.

However, Farris and her colleagues didn't find this to be the case. Rather than seeing the world through sex-colored glasses, men seemed just to have blurry vision of sorts, overall. For instance, the college guys sometimes mistook sexual advances as pal-like gestures.

"I would say that there are many factors that could relate to men demonstrating insensitivity to women's subtle non-verbal cues," said Pamela McAuslan, associate professor of psychology at the University of Michigan-Dearborn, who was not involved in the current study. These factors would include socialization, gender roles and gender stereotypes, she said.

For instance, "women are supposed to be the communicators, concerned with relationships and others ... men are supposed to be less concerned with communication and to be constantly alert for sexual opportunities," McAuslan said. "This could mean that men in general may be less sensitive to subtle non-verbal behavior than women."

That doesn't mean such men can't learn to read cues or that all men are clueless decoders of women's gestures.

"These are average differences. Some men are very skilled at reading affective cues," Farris told LiveScience, "and some women find the task challenging."


=====================================


[obvious line] Your tax dollars at work... [/obvious]

Best part of this study: they chose to study men and women with an average age of 20. Perhaps that had something to do with the cluelessness.



.
Old 03-20-08, 05:14 PM
  #2  
DVD Talk Reviewer
 
Pointyskull's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Formerly known as "12thmonkey"/Frankfort, IL
Posts: 7,560
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
I'm trying incorporate a new system at my house:

If my wife wants sex, she is to give me a quick yank you-know-where
If she doesn't, she is to yank me about 63 times
Old 03-20-08, 05:32 PM
  #3  
DVD Talk Gold Edition
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Galt's Gulch
Posts: 2,626
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
I'm sure the study could also have read "Women are too confusing for men to read" except it was written by....gasp...a woman. Ugh, whoever thought it was a good idea to let them out of the kitchen?

Last edited by John Galt; 03-20-08 at 05:35 PM.
Old 03-20-08, 05:50 PM
  #4  
DVD Talk Special Edition
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Raleigh, NC
Posts: 1,686
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
More surprising, the researchers found guys were also confused by sexual cues. When images of gals meant to show allure flashed onto the screen, male students mistook the allure as amicable signals.
How bout they post these images so we can learn from them and be less clueless
Old 03-20-08, 05:55 PM
  #5  
DRG
DVD Talk Legend
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Location: ND
Posts: 13,421
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
I like the way they present it as if these cryptic clues should be super obvious to guys.
Old 03-20-08, 05:55 PM
  #6  
DVD Talk Limited Edition
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Posts: 6,635
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Several Facts in that article,

1. Men see woman, think of sex - fact
2. Women over analyze men - fact
3. Men half-ass analyze women - fact
Old 03-20-08, 05:56 PM
  #7  
DVD Talk Legend
 
wishbone's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 20,969
Likes: 0
Received 10 Likes on 8 Posts
Man Thinks Receptionist Is Hitting On Him
July 30, 2003 | Issue 39•29

MEMPHIS, TN—Based on approximately two minutes of conversation and a series of polite smiles, chiropractic patient Jordan Walters earnestly believes that receptionist Mandy Pruitt is hitting on him, waiting-room sources reported early this afternoon. "Did you see how she offered to get me coffee?" an excited Walters said after Pruitt left to fetch him coffee. "I think she was just looking for an 'in' with me, if you follow me. One where she got to show me her legs." Earlier that day, Walters also caught the eye of an Applebee's waitress, a Goodyear service-center employee, and two different bank tellers.
http://www.theonion.com/content/node/32106
Old 03-20-08, 05:57 PM
  #8  
DVD Talk Legend
 
Mrs. Danger's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: With Nick Danger
Posts: 17,912
Likes: 0
Received 3 Likes on 2 Posts
More reporting of the obvious.

When I was in my twenties (and uber-hot) it seemed like guys would take the fact that I wasn't actively trying to kill them as a sign that I wanted to have sex with them.
Old 03-20-08, 05:59 PM
  #9  
Moderator
 
Groucho's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Salt Lake City, Utah
Posts: 70,864
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
"Guys can't read women" should read "Women should speak in plain English instead of giving subtle 'signals' to indicate their intentions".
Old 03-20-08, 06:00 PM
  #10  
DVD Talk Ultimate Edition
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Lounging on the beach in L.A., frappucino in hand...
Posts: 4,275
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by Mrs. Danger
More reporting of the obvious.

When I was in my twenties (and uber-hot) it seemed like guys would take the fact that I wasn't actively trying to kill them as a sign that I wanted to have sex with them.
Hell, I wasn't UBER hot in college, and I still had this problem. It's the age: 20-22 y.o. guys are like overeager hyper puppies where women are concerned.
Old 03-20-08, 06:03 PM
  #11  
DVD Talk Legend
 
Mrs. Danger's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: With Nick Danger
Posts: 17,912
Likes: 0
Received 3 Likes on 2 Posts
Originally Posted by Groucho
"Guys can't read women" should read "Women should speak in plain English instead of giving subtle 'signals' to indicate their intentions".
I always thought, "Go AWAY!" was pretty straightforward.
Old 03-20-08, 06:05 PM
  #12  
DVD Talk Limited Edition
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Posts: 6,635
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by Groucho
"Guys can't read women" should read "Guys don't try to read women".
Old 03-20-08, 06:07 PM
  #13  
DVD Talk Gold Edition
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Galt's Gulch
Posts: 2,626
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by Mrs. Danger
I always thought, "Go AWAY!" was pretty straightforward.
Only if you're using pepper spray while saying it.
Old 03-20-08, 06:09 PM
  #14  
DVD Talk Legend
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Lyon Estates
Posts: 10,795
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
So "no" doesn't mean "no?"
Old 03-20-08, 06:10 PM
  #15  
Moderator
 
Groucho's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Salt Lake City, Utah
Posts: 70,864
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by Mrs. Danger
I always thought, "Go AWAY!" was pretty straightforward.
It's never that plain. It's always some "let him down easy" crap like "I'm busy that weekend" so the dude thinks he has a chance.
Old 03-20-08, 06:14 PM
  #16  
DVD Talk Hero
 
das Monkey's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 1999
Location: Atlanta, GA
Posts: 35,881
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by shoppingbear
"This could mean that men in general may be less sensitive to subtle non-verbal behavior than women."
Really? Holy shit, what a breakthrough.

I'm surprised this article's even written with words and not a youtube video of some woman giving "non-verbal signals" for 10 minutes and then pouting when we don't know wtf's going on.

das
Old 03-20-08, 06:19 PM
  #17  
DVD Talk Hero
 
Join Date: Nov 1999
Posts: 36,981
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
sometimes no means try harder stupid.

i'm 27 and can't read women
Old 03-20-08, 07:06 PM
  #18  
DVD Talk Godfather
 
The Bus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: New York
Posts: 54,876
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by shoppingbear
Hell, I wasn't UBER hot in college, and I still had this problem. It's the age: 20-22 y.o. guys are like overeager hyper puppies where women are concerned.
We're supposed to grow out of it?

Old 03-20-08, 07:06 PM
  #19  
DVD Talk Legend
 
wishbone's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 20,969
Likes: 0
Received 10 Likes on 8 Posts
I am not necessarily clueless but I cannot read women either.

This is The Onion article I was looking for earlier.
Sources: Barista Not Actually Flirting With You
July 20, 2007 | Issue 43•29

SAN FRANCISCO—Though she greets you every morning with a smile, sometimes chats with you, and makes sure the chocolate syrup is evenly distributed throughout your mocha, Starbucks barista Molly Sopel is in truth not flirting with you, and is instead simply a pleasant person and conscientious employee, coffeeshop sources reported Monday.

"The best part about Molly is that she laughs and talks with everyone," said manager Mike Dezort, who confirmed that Sopel asks if you want room for milk as a courtesy, and not because of the physical attraction you think exists between the two of you. "I always overhear her calling customers sweetie, which people seem to like."

A Starbucks regular who frequently watches you order from Sopel is reportedly "shocked" that you still haven't realized that she only calls you by your first name when you pay with your debit card.
http://www.theonion.com/content/news...es_barista_not
Old 03-20-08, 09:24 PM
  #20  
DVD Talk Hero
 
Numanoid's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Down in 'The Park'
Posts: 27,882
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
"Study: Women still playing fucking mind games."


What a breakthrough.
Old 03-20-08, 09:49 PM
  #21  
DVD Talk Legend
 
FantasticVSDoom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: No longer trapped
Posts: 11,610
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
The fact that there are signs to begin with pretty much nails the problem right on the head...
Old 03-20-08, 10:10 PM
  #22  
DVD Talk Legend
 
stingermck's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: NC
Posts: 15,474
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
This is my no shit story of the day. Me and boys have a line for it "Dude, she talked to me!" based on one of our friends who would fall in love with a girl if she was just nice to him.
Old 03-20-08, 10:29 PM
  #23  
DVD Talk Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: in Bush territory!
Posts: 11,613
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Clueless Guys Can't Read Women
The title is downright misleading!!!!

It should say.......Clueless Guys Can't Decipher Women.
Old 03-20-08, 11:55 PM
  #24  
DVD Talk Hero
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: Words
Posts: 28,207
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
An interesting article I just read in PT.....and I was surprised they put it online too!

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Neanderthink: Desperation With a Difference
Women are devastated by failing relationships, says Nando Pelusi, Ph.D., while men flail more over unattainable relationships.

By: Nando Pelusi Ph.D.

After a one-year relationship with a difficult boyfriend, my client had to face the facts: "I've spent so much time and energy on this guy, I just can't believe it's not going to work." Amid her tears she also realized that she didn't even like the guy, who had kept her at arm's length and endlessly proclaimed his inability to commit. She was gripped by what she always feels when she realizes a relationship is troubled—a grim determination to make it work no matter what.

The next client to enter my office wasn't crying, but he was grief-stricken about a relationship that just didn't get off the ground. He couldn't understand why a woman he pursued with elaborate overtures (and cold hard cash) never really responded. He ruminated for hours about why nothing worked.

Many of us can relate to these predicaments. But each distinct saga has played out so many times in my office that the conclusion is unavoidable: Men and women are needy in different ways. Men get obsessed before they land a partner; women get obsessed after they find one. Men and women alike become desperate for a guarantee of love, but that desperation kicks in, roughly speaking, at different points in the relationship.

I've seen neediness arise even when men and women do not particularly care for the person they're needy about. In addition, the anguish associated with the need for love paradoxically causes some people to dispense with love altogether—it's just too painful for them.

The notion that we live for love is as old as literature. But the writing on our genetic parchment is much older, and that algorithm says: "Be fruitful and multiply—and agonize about keeping your mate along the way."

Shades of Heartache

Men and women have different unconscious reproductive motives. In casual relationships, more women than men want to know where the relationship is going and obsess about the long-term potential, because women have a lot more at stake reproductively. Women may take longer to get emotionally involved, but once they pass the threshold, they're in. Female vigilance is evident in a woman's tendency to test her partner at a relationship's start—acting coy or simply being wary of his intentions—and then get obsessive once committed.

Men, by contrast, usually start out at peak emotional investment because they have a lot to gain from immediate coupling. Twenty minutes of intense pleasure does not compare to the years spent raising children. A man's neediness stems from falling in love at first sight. Men are much more likely to agonize over how to get a woman than how to keep her.

The less a man knows about a woman, the more alluring she is at first—and the more driven he is to interact with her. This is because men dream up the perfect woman, a bias that spurs them to give chase. "Male idealization of females smooths the courting process," says David Geary, author of Male, Female: The Evolution of Human Sex Differences and a professor of psychology at the University of Missouri.

When it comes to seeking long-term relationships, men get obsessed with women who are barely within their reach, because of the high payoff: finding the best vehicle for their genes. They pursue a woman doggedly, sparing no time, energy, or expense on a woman's every non-sexual concern to show that they're not "just in it for the sex."

his behavior qualifies as needy when the guy suspects the relationship is going nowhere but can't put the brakes on. The needy approach may work, but at great emotional cost. Ironically, such behavior subverts a man's goal, because women generally lose interest in guys who get clingy and act more like a butler than a boyfriend.

The Neediness Switch

We might rationally know that we don't need that special person, but it's hard to argue with generations of evolved impulses that whisper otherwise. Rationality is limited when dealing with the dictates of our passions, and sexual attachment—sanitized as love—is deeper than our dispassionate analysis.

Neediness is an escalation of desire at a critical juncture in the relationship or in its pursuit. Our emotions make an all-or-nothing sprint for the amorous goal, and we tell ourselves things such as, "I can get her to like me and I must not mess it up."

Neediness kicks in when we're not sure whether we can obtain someone, but believe (or fantasize) that we have a shot. The average man is not needy for the supermodel du jour, because although she might be a perfect vehicle for his genes he knows he doesn't stand a chance. Men get needy only when they suspect someone is within reach.

Desire and neediness are not on the same continuum; wanting someone or something with all your heart does not by definition mean that you're needy. You can want something passionately without turning it into an absolute necessity. A desire says, "I'd like to make this work because I really like and love this person—and I hope we click." A need says, "This relationship must work out, or else I'm a loser and I'll be single forever."

Men and women pursue and cling to inappropriate partners for far too long, because genes are not out for anyone's interests but their own. That's right—my goals may not be the same as the ones my genes have for me. However, since we've inherited big brains, we can now think our way to new goals—shaped by evolution but not determined by it. When you get rid of neediness, you don't become indifferent but rather more passionate; you experience desire and connection unsullied by desperation.

The act of loving is what gives us fulfillment. Receiving love is nice—but it is not a necessity. Enjoy your pursuits, but refuse to believe that you can't be happy without that certain someone. We tend to be terrible judges of what will make us happy.—Nando Pelusi, Ph.D.

Memo to Men

Be wary of your desire to pursue an idealized woman, maybe even an ex (idealized again, after an absence). Guys get needy for acquisition and pursuit. You're fantasizing about a perfect woman. That's OK. But if you want to get off that roller coaster of chronic disillusionment, remind yourself that your genetic legacy is to fool yourself before you're in, and then pull away once the woman is off the pedestal. Dante may have been intoxicated with Beatrice his whole life, but it was from afar. He never so much as kissed her. That makes for great poetry, but not great relating.

A Word to Women

Be cautious about your tendency to believe you need to make a relationship work at all costs; it's a taxing and corrosive path—and it rarely works. You may not consciously want children, but the emotional engine that has evolved among women is to be very cautious about sex—and then to get very emotionally involved once in the relationship. That means that you may have unwanted feelings of neediness only after a relationship has emerged. You can fight the idea that a particularly fraught relationship must work out.

Psychology Today Magazine, Mar/Apr 2008
Last Reviewed 6 Mar 2008
Article ID: 4542
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Old 03-21-08, 12:04 AM
  #25  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 818
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by Mrs. Danger
More reporting of the obvious.

When I was in my twenties (and uber-hot) it seemed like guys would take the fact that I wasn't actively trying to kill them as a sign that I wanted to have sex with them.
I could see where actively trying to kill me would mean you wanted to have sex with me.

<----Likes it rough.

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information

Copyright © 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.