Other Talk "Otterville" plus Religion/Politics

Airline pilots may have slept past their stop

Old 02-27-08, 09:03 PM
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Airline pilots may have slept past their stop

Complete credit to Mrs. Danger for finding this story...


story

Airline pilots may have slept past their stop in Hawaii

Barbi Walker
The Arizona Republic
Feb. 20, 2008 04:59 PM

The Federal Aviation Administration is investigating whether two airline pilots who flew past the airport in Hilo Hawaii by 15 miles last Wednesday were asleep.

Go! Airlines flight 1002 left from Honolulu and was expected to land in Hilo around 10 a.m., but had to turn around after flying past the airport.

The pilots did return to the airport and land safely. Go! Airlines is owned by Phoenix-based Mesa Air Group, which also operates Mesa Airlines.

“The issue is currently under investigation,” Paul Skellon, spokesperson for the airline said. “We are fully cooperating with the FAA.”

The airline declined to comment further.

There is no indication that the pilots had to avoid landing because of other aircraft or weather, FAA spokesman Ian Gregorsaid. Investigators are looking into why the pilots flew past the airport.

Air traffic controllers, which had been tracking the plane by radar, were unable to reach the plane for 25 minutes.

Gregor said the FAA plans to interview the pilots of the 214-mile flight. Under FAA rules, they could be subject to a warning, suspension or license revocation depending on the findings.

Go! Airlines is also conducting their own investigation. Gregor also said that there is no FAA regulation that allows pilots to sleep during a flight.

A radar track of the flight provided by the Web site www.flightaware.com shows the plane remained at 21,000 feet as it flew past Hilo before returning to the airport.

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Well... I'm glad the FAA doesn't "allow pilots to sleep during a flight", that's something of a comfort. Also good to know that airplanes can go so much on autopilot.
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Old 02-27-08, 09:08 PM
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If the stewardess hadn't awakened them by bringing in a cup of coffee, everyone might have wound up in China.
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Old 02-27-08, 09:35 PM
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Maybe this is what happened to Oceanic flight 815!
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Old 02-27-08, 09:58 PM
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Originally Posted by shoppingbear
Well... I'm glad the FAA doesn't "allow pilots to sleep during a flight", that's something of a comfort. Also good to know that airplanes can go so much on autopilot.
I know it's a cliche to bring them up, but on Mythbusters they did the "tower talking a passenger through landing a plane" movie cliche. The retired tower guy who was able to talk them through it (simulated) said that planes today have such advanced autopilots that they can almost land themselves. You hit a button, it corrects for course, does the flaps, slows the plane down, etc.
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Old 02-27-08, 10:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Mordred
I know it's a cliche to bring them up, but on Mythbusters they did the "tower talking a passenger through landing a plane" movie cliche. The retired tower guy who was able to talk them through it (simulated) said that planes today have such advanced autopilots that they can almost land themselves. You hit a button, it corrects for course, does the flaps, slows the plane down, etc.
Most of the newer airliners can actually land themselves, including applying the brakes to a stop. They are almost required on some of the very poor weather approaches like ILS cat IIIa/b, where visibility might be just a couple hundred feet.
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Old 02-27-08, 11:24 PM
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Autoland IS required for Cat III. Cat IIIc is 0/0 (visibility/ceiling), in other words, a completely blind landing. I don't think there are any approved IIIc approaches in the US...

As far as the sleeping crew is concerned, the airline (Go!) is owned by Mesa, which isn't new to crew rest issues: http://www.wfaa.com/sharedcontent/dw....2ba08a36.html

I have a hard time faulting the pilots with this, their airline gives them a LOT of pressure to fly well beyond their safe limits. Hell, they've outlawed sleeping on the planes but they didn't change their rest periods, so really they now have even LESS rest because they have to travel to and from a hotel, check in, etc.
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Old 02-28-08, 02:39 AM
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How do you have time to fall asleep during a 214-mile flight? According to Aero-News.net it's only a 45-minute flight.
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Old 02-28-08, 04:18 AM
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Originally Posted by Mr. Salty
How do you have time to fall asleep during a 214-mile flight? According to Aero-News.net it's only a 45-minute flight.
I have a co-worker who falls asleep at different times throughout the day, including 5 minutes after he arrives to work and has sat down at his desk.
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Old 02-28-08, 08:09 AM
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Yeah, that's not scary at all.
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Old 02-28-08, 08:21 AM
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This actually happened to a co-worker of mine who was flying on one of our planes (I won't mention the airline, but it's a smaller one). He was flying to LAX from the east coast on a cargo flight and they shot right past the coast and over the Pacific. After a while he figured something was up and went into the cockpit and both pilots were fast asleep. He woke them up and they turned the plane around. He said the only concern he had was the fuel level since they went well past their intended destination.
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Old 02-28-08, 09:00 AM
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That's kind of funny wording about the FAA not allowing sleeping on the flight. I think they technically say you can't sleep while your in command in the first or second chair (or probably anywhere at the controls). A friend of mine used to work for United and they used to rotate the crews on the international flight for 5 hour shifts. They had their own bunk area in the business class section for them to get into PJ's and sleep.

He used to give me vouchers to fly on and I used to fly on the flights he was piloting sometimes. I laughed when at the begining of every flight he announced to the passengers that they may see pilots in the cabin and to be assured that their were always two people capable of flying the aircraft in front at any time. He said if he didn't say it ahead of time people would get very nervous seeing the pilot walking around.....do people think they don't eat sleep and pee?
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Old 02-28-08, 09:29 AM
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What about B-2 bomber pilots? They fly from Missouri to Afghanistan and back non stop. Do they have sleep rotations?
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Old 02-28-08, 09:47 AM
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Originally Posted by Mopower
What about B-2 bomber pilots? They fly from Missouri to Afghanistan and back non stop. Do they have sleep rotations?
Yes, but they don't have passengers, and they can make their own rules.
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Old 02-28-08, 09:48 AM
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Originally Posted by Dave99
Yes, but they don't have passengers, and they can make their own rules.

I wasn't comparing them to passenger jet pilots or this situation I was just curious if they had sleep rotations.
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Old 02-28-08, 10:48 AM
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Originally Posted by Mr. Salty
How do you have time to fall asleep during a 214-mile flight? According to Aero-News.net it's only a 45-minute flight.
THAT was the part that made me go . Ummm... it's a 45 minute flight and they were asleep for 25 minutes? I'm sorry, but I don't think asking them to stay awake for 45 minutes is THAT much of a hardship.
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Old 02-28-08, 11:16 AM
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Hey miss, don't forget the coffee!
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Old 02-28-08, 11:30 AM
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Originally Posted by shoppingbear
THAT was the part that made me go . Ummm... it's a 45 minute flight and they were asleep for 25 minutes? I'm sorry, but I don't think asking them to stay awake for 45 minutes is THAT much of a hardship.
While they obviously shouldn't have been sleeping, it is highly doubtful that they'd just been flying for 45 minutes. They probably make that same run and back a bunch of times in one shift.
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Old 02-28-08, 11:30 AM
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Originally Posted by Mopower
I wasn't comparing them to passenger jet pilots or this situation I was just curious if they had sleep rotations.
At least they have a bathroom, that Afghanistan mission was 44 hours! Even with 1 guy sleeping on occasion, that still had to be exhausting.
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Old 02-28-08, 11:40 AM
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I questioned a flight attendant on a 11 hour non-stop flight (LAX to Paris) and he showed me the area where they all sleep...It was a little stairway up to a second level sleeping area at the back of the plane...pretty cool...all of them take naps/sleep during a long flight...
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Old 02-28-08, 12:27 PM
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So on this particular occasion Go! Airlines became "Stop!" Airlines?

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Old 02-28-08, 12:44 PM
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Originally Posted by MoviePage
So on this particular occasion Go! Airlines became "Stop!" Airlines?


So that's funny but Lasagna Cat isn't?
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Old 02-28-08, 01:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Mopower
So that's funny but Lasagna Cat isn't?
That's not that funny. And I don't know what "Lasagna Cat" is but cats aren't funny either. No, not even lolcats.
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Old 02-28-08, 02:29 PM
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So if planes land themselves why didnt the pilots wake up at the terminal?
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Old 02-28-08, 02:52 PM
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Because someone has to switch the autopilot to autoland mode.

And they don't taxi or stop themselves.
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Old 02-28-08, 04:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Mopower
What about B-2 bomber pilots? They fly from Missouri to Afghanistan and back non stop. Do they have sleep rotations?
Yes, but they have amphetamines issued to them by the military.

Go Pills

War on drugs indeed.
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