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BPA Bottles, are they dangerous for babies or just another scare

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BPA Bottles, are they dangerous for babies or just another scare

Old 02-08-08, 04:37 PM
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BPA Bottles, are they dangerous for babies or just another scare

There are a lot of stories out on this today, what do you parents think?

http://www.canada.com/theprovince/ne...9-e6cc45cacb3f

OTTAWA -- Some of the most popular baby bottles sold in Canada should be pulled from the shelves because of the health risks posed by the chemical bisphenol A, a study warns.

Commissioned by Environmental Defence, researchers tested a number of baby bottles available in Canada and the U.S. and found that they leached "significant" levels of the hormone-disrupting chemical, also called BPA, when they were heated.

Studies have shown that BPA can upset the body's hormonal balance and warn that exposure may cause, Type 2 diabetes, early onset of puberty in girls and behavioural problems.

The controversial chemical is widely used in polycarbonate plastics -- hard, clear plastics -- and in epoxy resins. Baby bottles, reusable water bottles, the lining of canned foods and a host of other everyday products contain BPA.

"If this study doesn't make the case for an immediate ban on this kind of plastic in food and beverage containers, I don't know what will," said Rick Smith, head of Environmental Defence and the parent of a one-year-old.

Health Canada is currently studying the health and environmental effects of BPA and tested baby bottles, sippy cups and beverage bottles. Results are expected this spring.

Concern over the chemical has already prompted some stores, such as Mountain Equipment Co-op and Lululemon, to stop selling polycarbonate bottles.

Environmental Defence tested three bottles from three different brands bought on Canadian store shelves and 10 bottles from four different companies in the U.S. The bottles were filled with water, left to sit for 24 hours, then tested for BPA levels at both room temperature and after heating them in an oven at 80 C. They were heated to determine how much BPA would leach from a well-used bottle, washed repeatedly in hot water or a dishwasher.

The results showed no notable leaching at room temperature, but all bottles showed significant levels of leaching when heated -- in the range of five to eight parts per billion.

National standards vary between countries. In Canada, the limit is 25 parts per billion per day.


Parents commonly heat their baby's bottles in a microwave and wash them in the dishwasher or hot water. According to the study, that can increase the amount of BPA leached from the plastic over time, because the plastic breaks down under those conditions.

Environmental Defence argues that even low doses of the chemical are risky and that babies and children are especially vulnerable
I'm sure a lot of you can come up with better links for us non-chemists. Is this study to be trusted and acted on? Is it just another "everything causes cancer" type study?

I guess a couple of lawmakers here in MN are looking to ban them. http://www.twincities.com/ci_8206645...e=most_emailed

Seems like a pretty good response to the accusations here:

http://www.bisphenol-a.org/whatsNew/20080205.html

For example, the European Food Safety Authority (EFSA) recently established a Tolerable Daily Intake (TDI) for bisphenol A of 50 micrograms/kilogram bodyweight/day, which represents a safe level for daily exposure over a lifetime.(7) Even the highest transient level of bisphenol A measured in the University of Athens and University of Cincinnati studies, which would not occur daily over a lifetime, would only result in bisphenol A exposure that is less than 1% of the TDI.
Anyone know how to figure out how many parts per billion of BPA would be needed to meet the 50micrograms/kilogram bodyweight/day for a 25 pound kid?

Last edited by starman9000; 02-08-08 at 05:02 PM.
Old 02-08-08, 06:01 PM
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wife and i have been using BPA free bottles since my son was born. first we used Adiri and now we are using Born Free. other than no bpa, they have better flow than Avent and other cheaper bottles to minimize ear infections.

it's just one study, nothing is proven but there is evidence that these chemicals can be bad. especially for fertility
Old 02-08-08, 06:02 PM
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We use lead bottles. Good for their arm strength.
Old 02-08-08, 09:20 PM
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Environmental Defence tested three bottles from three different brands bought on Canadian store shelves and 10 bottles from four different companies in the U.S. The bottles were filled with water, left to sit for 24 hours, then tested for BPA levels at both room temperature and after heating them in an oven at 80 C. They were heated to determine how much BPA would leach from a well-used bottle, washed repeatedly in hot water or a dishwasher.

The results showed no notable leaching at room temperature, but all bottles showed significant levels of leaching when heated -- in the range of five to eight parts per billion.

National standards vary between countries. In Canada, the limit is 25 parts per billion per day.

Parents commonly heat their baby's bottles in a microwave and wash them in the dishwasher or hot water. According to the study, that can increase the amount of BPA leached from the plastic over time, because the plastic breaks down under those conditions.
You certainly wouldn't heat baby's bottle to 80 C in the microwave, because that is 176 F and hotter than most adults drink hot tea or coffee. It is probably inadvisable to heat baby's bottle to more than 37 C (body temperature.)

It is also hotter than most dishwashers get, and the measured levels are still 1/3 Canada's limit. Also in a dishwasher, most of what (if any) leeched out would be in the wash water. Here they heated in microwave and tested the hot water in the cup. The test is completely for shit. As to whether there are any real issues, I have no idea, but the test method is so biased and faulty that I question the motivation of the organization performing it.
Old 02-08-08, 09:39 PM
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Yeah, that second link shows a study that pretty much debunks the microwave theory.
Old 02-08-08, 09:43 PM
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i always wondered what the non-polycarbonate bottles were made of. they are still clear and hard plastic
Old 02-08-08, 09:45 PM
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Don't use a microwave to heat your child's boobie juice.
Old 02-09-08, 12:29 PM
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They even tell you that on the cans of formula. DON'T HEAT IN MICROWAVE.

Even 37C is too hot. We heated the formula up just to get rid of the cold edge. 37C would hurt the kid's mouth.
Old 02-09-08, 01:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Shazam
They even tell you that on the cans of formula. DON'T HEAT IN MICROWAVE.

Even 37C is too hot. We heated the formula up just to get rid of the cold edge. 37C would hurt the kid's mouth.

Yeah, but as far as I know, that warning is not because of BPA concerns, it's just because they figure people are too stupid and will make the formula or milk too hot.
Old 02-09-08, 02:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Shazam
They even tell you that on the cans of formula. DON'T HEAT IN MICROWAVE.

Even 37C is too hot. We heated the formula up just to get rid of the cold edge. 37C would hurt the kid's mouth.
Uhh, Mom is 37 C, so I doubt that would burn the kid's mouth. (the kid is also 37 C)
Old 02-09-08, 09:50 PM
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Originally Posted by OldDude
Uhh, Mom is 37 C, so I doubt that would burn the kid's mouth. (the kid is also 37 C)
It wouldn't burn the kid's mouth, but unless you're using a thermometer, your wrist is not a good indicator of temperature, so it's definitely possible to give fluid that's too hot.
Old 02-09-08, 10:22 PM
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Originally Posted by OldDude
You certainly wouldn't heat baby's bottle to 80 C in the microwave, because that is 176 F and hotter than most adults drink hot tea or coffee. It is probably inadvisable to heat baby's bottle to more than 37 C (body temperature.)

It is also hotter than most dishwashers get, and the measured levels are still 1/3 Canada's limit. Also in a dishwasher, most of what (if any) leeched out would be in the wash water. Here they heated in microwave and tested the hot water in the cup. The test is completely for shit. As to whether there are any real issues, I have no idea, but the test method is so biased and faulty that I question the motivation of the organization performing it.
You question the motivation of environmental Defense?

Why, just because they're one of those environmental groups that has never found anything made by humans that is safe, no matter how low the dose? What are you, one of those industry stooges?

Last edited by movielib; 02-09-08 at 10:38 PM.
Old 02-10-08, 07:13 AM
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Originally Posted by movielib
You question the motivation of environmental Defense?
Surely, heating those bottles to 80 C caused some global warming. They obviously don't care about the planet.
Old 02-10-08, 09:16 AM
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Originally Posted by movielib
You question the motivation of environmental Defense?

Why, just because they're one of those environmental groups that has never found anything made by humans that is safe, no matter how low the dose? What are you, one of those industry stooges?
there are other studies that show that bpa can cause infertility in mice

whether the bpa free bottles that are made from polyamide are safe is not known since the bpa thing is going on to be like a religion. but my wife has noticed that a lot of companies are suddenly starting to make glass bottles
Old 02-10-08, 09:53 AM
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Originally Posted by al_bundy
there are other studies that show that bpa can cause infertility in mice
First of all at what dosage? Usually such studies are at ridiculously high dosages that would never be met by humans, even including babies. Second, mice are not people.

whether the bpa free bottles that are made from polyamide are safe is not known since the bpa thing is going on to be like a religion. but my wife has noticed that a lot of companies are suddenly starting to make glass bottles
Sure, because many companies will stop using something that has never been shown to be unsafe but because it has been demonized by environmentalists, they want to avoid the bad publicity. Such as alar and thimerosal. Both have been always deemed safe, neither was ever banned but nobody (in the US) uses them.

Last edited by movielib; 02-10-08 at 09:59 AM.
Old 02-10-08, 11:12 AM
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there is a long list of things that were used in products that were once safe that were later banned

doctors used to prescribe special gripe water with sedatives decades ago to stop babies from crying until it was found to cause development problems.

the bla levels in baby bottles might not cause anything, but when you add the exposure through the years with other plastics it may cause problems. One guy named pembry did a study in a nordic village and found that the effects may be seen one or two generations later

and by the time a study finds a problem, it's always after people have been hurt by something
Old 02-10-08, 04:49 PM
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Originally Posted by al_bundy
there is a long list of things that were used in products that were once safe that were later banned

doctors used to prescribe special gripe water with sedatives decades ago to stop babies from crying until it was found to cause development problems.

the bla levels in baby bottles might not cause anything, but when you add the exposure through the years with other plastics it may cause problems. One guy named pembry did a study in a nordic village and found that the effects may be seen one or two generations later

and by the time a study finds a problem, it's always after people have been hurt by something
I propose that we don't allow any new substance because it might cause "harm" two generations later.

So what if that will preclude thousands of substances that will save millions, if not billions, of lives? It's the precautionary thing to do.

Last edited by movielib; 02-11-08 at 08:37 AM.
Old 09-04-08, 01:29 PM
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another day, another bpa study

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...v=rss_politics



Chemical in Plastic Is Connected to Health Problems in Monkeys

By Lyndsey Layton
Washington Post Staff Writer
Thursday, September 4, 2008; A02



Researchers at the Yale School of Medicine have linked a chemical found in everyday plastics to problems with brain function and mood disorders in monkeys -- the first time the chemical has been connected to health problems in primates.

The study is the latest in an accumulation of research that has raises concerns about bisphenol A, or BPA, a compound that gives a shatterproof quality to polycarbonate plastic and has been found to leach from plastic into food and water.

The Yale study comes as federal toxicologists yesterday reaffirmed an earlier draft report finding that there is "some concern" that bisphenol A can cause developmental problems in the brain and hormonal systems of infants and children.

"There remains considerable uncertainty whether the changes seen in the animal studies are directly applicable to humans, and whether they would result in clear adverse health effects," John R. Bucher, associate director of the National Toxicology Program, said in a statement. "But we have concluded that the possibility that BPA may affect human development cannot be dismissed."

In a study published in the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences, the Yale team exposed monkeys to levels of bisphenol A deemed safe for humans by the Environmental Protection Agency and found that the chemical interfered with brain cell connections vital to memory, learning and mood.

"Our findings suggest that exposure to low-dose BPA may have widespread effects on brain structure and function," the authors wrote. In contrast to earlier research on rodents, the Yale researchers studied monkeys to better approximate the way BPA might affect humans.

"Our goal was to more closely mimic the slow and continuous conditions under which humans would normally be exposed to BPA," said study author Csaba Leranth, a Yale professor of obstetrics, gynecology and reproductive sciences and of neurobiology.

BPA, in commercial use since the 1950s, is found in a wide variety of everyday items, including sports bottles, baby bottles, food containers and compact discs. One recent federal study estimated that the chemical is found in the urine of 93 percent of the population.

The American Chemistry Council, a trade group, maintained yesterday that "there is no direct evidence that exposure to bisphenol A adversely affects human reproduction or development."

The National Toxicology Program, part of the National Institutes of Health, has no power to regulate BPA, but its findings are used by other federal agencies such as the Food and Drug Administration and the EPA, which set safe exposure limits for chemicals.

The FDA plays a critical regulatory role because it regulates the compound's use in plastic food containers, bottles, tableware and the plastic linings of canned foods.

The agency last month issued a draft report that declared BPA safe for use in food packaging and bottles, based largely on the strength of two studies, both funded by industry.

"Unfortunately the regulatory agency charged with protecting the public health continues to rely on industry-based research to arrive at its conclusions, rather than examining the totality of scientific evidence," Rep. John D. Dingell (D-Mich.), chairman of the House Energy and Commerce Committee, said in a statement yesterday. His committee is investigating the FDA's handling of BPA.

U.S. manufacturers make about 7 billion pounds of BPA annually. A ban would affect thousands of businesses and perhaps billions of dollars in profit for its largest manufacturers.

Canada has said it intends to ban the use of BPA in baby bottles, and state and federal lawmakers have proposed a variety of BPA bans. Sen. Charles E. Schumer (D-N.Y.) is sponsoring a bill to prohibit BPA from children's products, while Rep. Edward J. Markey (D-Mass.) wants to bar it from all food and drink packaging.

"The FDA's assurances of BPA's safety are out of step with mounting scientific evidence to the contrary," Markey said yesterday. "For the sake of the health of every man, woman and child in America, we should ban BPA in food and beverage containers, especially because there are alternatives already available."

Several major retailers, including Wal-Mart and Toys R Us, have pledged to drop BPA products next year while some makers of baby bottles and sports bottles have switched to BPA-free plastic.
Old 09-04-08, 02:12 PM
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Originally Posted by kvrdave View Post
We use lead bottles. Good for their arm strength.

Damn, I love me.

Also, isn't early onset of puberty in girls a worthy goal?
Old 09-04-08, 02:31 PM
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Originally Posted by al_bundy View Post
another day, another bpa study
I wonder how much they exposed them to and how? If I recall, the EPA max for this stuff is WAY over the amount everyone is exposed to. Perhaps they injected the bpa directly into them?



These guys are a little late with this study though, I figured folks would be moving on to the dangers of organic food by now.
Old 09-04-08, 02:51 PM
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study says they exposed monkeys to amounts humans are normally exposed to
Old 09-04-08, 02:52 PM
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Originally Posted by al_bundy View Post
study says they exposed monkeys to amounts humans are normally exposed to
Yes, I'm sure it will affect a 15lb monkey the same way it would affect a 200lb man.
Old 09-04-08, 02:58 PM
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maybe they tested it on gorillas?
Old 09-04-08, 03:10 PM
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just one of many reasons why boobies are best
Old 09-04-08, 03:23 PM
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No idea so we just end up buying Dr. Brown glass bottles.

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