Go Back  DVD Talk Forum > General Discussions > Other Talk
Reload this Page >

What's weird about space? Everything! (well, at least 10 things, anyway)

Other Talk "Otterville" plus Religion/Politics

What's weird about space? Everything! (well, at least 10 things, anyway)

Old 04-11-07, 03:11 PM
  #1  
DVD Talk Limited Edition
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Charlotte, NC
Posts: 7,466
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
What's weird about space? Everything! (well, at least 10 things, anyway)

I was reading through an interesting set of pages on Space.com titled "The Top 10 Weirdest Things in Space: Weird and strange things in the universe" and I recalled that there have been some interesting asronomy-type conversations here in the past, so I thought a few of you might be interested.

Link

The acceleration of the universes expansion was one of the more interesting items to me, but they're all pretty cool (in a totally science geek kind of way ).
Old 04-11-07, 08:51 PM
  #2  
Political Exile
 
grundle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 16,390
Likes: 0
Received 3 Likes on 3 Posts
Those things are really cool!

That's a much better article than the one I posted in that other thread.

On #2 in your article, there's a link that should go to #1, but it went to #3 instead, so I had to change the URL to get to #1.
Old 04-11-07, 08:54 PM
  #3  
DVD Talk Legend
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Working for Gizmonic Institute
Posts: 10,430
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by grundle
Those things are really cool!

That's a much better article than the one I posted in that other thread.

On #2 in your article, there's a link that should go to #1, but it went to #3 instead, so I had to change the URL to get to #1.
Another mystery of the time/space continuum
Old 04-12-07, 12:46 AM
  #4  
DVD Talk Limited Edition
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Charlotte, NC
Posts: 7,466
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by grundle
Those things are really cool!

That's a much better article than the one I posted in that other thread.

On #2 in your article, there's a link that should go to #1, but it went to #3 instead, so I had to change the URL to get to #1.
I noticed that, too . . . you'd think a bunch of scientists would be able to pull off simple HTML.

Which article was the one you posted? I must have missed that thread.
Old 04-12-07, 01:14 AM
  #5  
DVD Talk Legend
 
GoldenJCJ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Colorado
Posts: 14,200
Likes: 0
Received 18 Likes on 15 Posts
Pretty cool stuff. #10 is a tad bit racist though.
Old 04-12-07, 01:42 AM
  #6  
DVD Talk God
 
kvrdave's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Location: Pacific NW
Posts: 86,201
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Is seems like I remember reading last year that cosmologists had determined the percent of matter in the universe that was dark, exotic, etc. and that had something to do with the expansion of the universe, but I don't remember the details now. I also remember reading the timeline under which our sun would go out, our galaxy would collide with our neighboring galaxy, at what point the expansion would be so great that we wouldn't be able to see stars because they move away faster than the speed of light, and the point at which our own molecules would move away from each other faster than the speed of light. It was a little freaky, except that we'll be long gone by then.

Cosmology always seems to bring up theological/philosophical things. I know that part of the appeal of oscillating universes is the idea that it does away with a first cause, but I wonder if any of the appeal is also the idea that none of it truly ever ends. As much as some find a first cause uncomfortable, I wonder if it is somehow "reassuring" to us on some level that the universe never really ends.

But I suppose the weird part of the expansion is why it continues to increase. It would seem to need continually new energy in the system for it to do that, yet there is none. My guess is that we find the answer (to some degree) in the properties of various exotic matter.

But in the meantime, it seems appropriate to use a term like "acceleratons" for a hypothesized thing for which there is no evidence, similar to how "ether" used to be used. When we have no answer, no leads, and no evidence, we seem to create an answer and hope we are able to get there from here.
Old 04-12-07, 10:43 AM
  #7  
DVD Talk Limited Edition
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Charlotte, NC
Posts: 7,466
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by kvrdave
But I suppose the weird part of the expansion is why it continues to increase. It would seem to need continually new energy in the system for it to do that, yet there is none. My guess is that we find the answer (to some degree) in the properties of various exotic matter.
Yeah, that was one of the more interesting parts for me since it really flies in the face of what everybody had been expecting (and what "should" be happening under the current understanding of physics, etc.).
Originally Posted by kvrdave
But in the meantime, it seems appropriate to use a term like "acceleratons" for a hypothesized thing for which there is no evidence, similar to how "ether" used to be used. When we have no answer, no leads, and no evidence, we seem to create an answer and hope we are able to get there from here.
It's one of the things that I enjoy most about science is that, for a field that is dedicated to the finding of truth, there is an awful lot of guessing (generally incorrect) that goes on along the way.

But, also, unlike most fields, their response is generally not, "Oh, shoot . . . we were wrong. ", but, more along the lines of "Hey, cool! We were waaay off! "
Old 04-12-07, 12:41 PM
  #8  
DVD Talk God
 
kvrdave's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Location: Pacific NW
Posts: 86,201
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
I think the idea is that a bad, unknowable idea at least gives you something to reject, and if you can reject it in favor of anything else, you at least have progress.

I know the standard response to the rate of expansion is that it was slower in the begining when the universe was more dense, and has since passed the point at which gravity from any matter can have any hold to make the universe contract. But given that, it still seems more likely that the expansion would only stay at a given speed rather than get faster.

These acceleratons are amazing things.
Old 04-12-07, 01:17 PM
  #9  
DVD Talk Gold Edition
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Posts: 2,102
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
I thought this was going to be the top 10 weirdest things about MYspace...
Old 04-12-07, 01:41 PM
  #10  
DVD Talk Platinum Edition
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Posts: 3,393
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
#11. In space, no one can smell your farts.
Old 04-12-07, 01:53 PM
  #11  
DVD Talk Gold Edition
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Looking for my pants...
Posts: 2,029
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Ninjas cannot be astronauts...
Old 04-12-07, 01:53 PM
  #12  
DVD Talk Limited Edition
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Charlotte, NC
Posts: 7,466
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by Vandelay_Inds
Yeah. We have a set of observations which we seek to explain by postulating something we call "dark energy", but we should be cautious to assign to it any real or tangible existence. So far it is but a mathematical and conceptual aid in creating models to explain most of what we see. Just like your ether of a century ago. However, cosmic acceleration appears to be real, no matter how whimsical a name we give to it.
My favorite exmple of this was in the "Black Hole in the middle of the Milky Way" section (#3, I believe):
Since no one has ever actually seen a black hole, how do astronomers even know there's one at the center of the Milky Way?

Geballe offers up an analogy. Around our Sun, the inner planets move more rapidly than the outer planets. By measuring those speeds, astronomers can calculate the mass of the Sun.

Likewise, astronomers observe that stars and gas near the center of our galaxy move faster than the stuff farther out. So some object has to be at the center, exerting a certain gravity that causes such speeds. This technique unambiguously shows a mass of 2.6 million Suns in a very small volume of space, Geballe says.

"From the small volume that this mass must inhabit, we know that the only physically realistic object that can have that mass is a black hole," he says.

Astronomers see all kinds of radiation emitted from the black holes in other galaxies -- X-ray, infrared, ultraviolet, visible light and radio waves. The only signature of the Milky Way's black hole, however, is some radio radiation.


Ultraviolet and visible wavelengths are blocked by interstellar dust between Earth and the center of the galaxy. But the other wavelengths can penetrate this dust. Geballe says better instruments may be needed to solve the mystery.

Meanwhile, theoretical astrophysicists are on the case, trying to come up with a theory that would account for the weird faintness of the black hole at the center of the Milky Way.
So basically . . . it looks like a black hole, so it must be one, since that's the only thing that we know of that behaves that way. The only problem in is it doesn't really behave like one.

I should point out that I have know problem with this approach (like dave said earlier, start with something and then learn more while disproving it ), but it still makes me laugh.
Old 04-12-07, 01:54 PM
  #13  
DVD Talk Limited Edition
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Charlotte, NC
Posts: 7,466
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by La Bella Rose
Ninjas cannot be astronauts...
Ninja's can be whatever they want.
Old 04-12-07, 02:02 PM
  #14  
DVD Talk Gold Edition
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Looking for my pants...
Posts: 2,029
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by talemyn
Ninja's can be whatever they want.
Pfft, only in appearance and by doing so they lose there stealth and speed.









Old 04-12-07, 02:17 PM
  #15  
DVD Talk Limited Edition
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Charlotte, NC
Posts: 7,466
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by La Bella Rose
Pfft, only in appearance and by doing so they lose there stealth and speed.









Excellent . . . you believe exactly what they want you to.
Old 04-12-07, 02:22 PM
  #16  
DVD Talk Limited Edition
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Charlotte, NC
Posts: 7,466
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by Vandelay_Inds
And yet this is how we do science. Nobody has "seen" gravity or a quark, yet we base our physics on them, and properly designed and constructed bridges indeed do not collapse, so I'd say we're not far off. It is wise to be cautious, but our dark energy scenario (as with the quasars at the center of galaxies) is the most convincing explanation of what we see.
True, but the force of gravity tends to behave the way that it's supposed to when the theory is applied. The "black hole" in the middle of the Milky Way isn't behaving.

Again, I have no problem with the approach and I'm not even saying that anybody is wrong (in fact, I'd say they are probably right . . . we just have more to learn about the nature of black holes), but it is still a funny way to operate. I doubt that you could successfully implement that kind of approach in many other fields outside of scientific study.
Old 04-12-07, 02:24 PM
  #17  
DVD Talk God
 
kvrdave's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Location: Pacific NW
Posts: 86,201
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by Vandelay_Inds
There is an article about this in the february issue of Scientific American. Perhpas that's where you read it?
Nope. Unfortunately, I haven't been able to crack a journal, etc. for pleasure for about 5 months. Sucks. But thanks for the link.
Old 04-12-07, 03:50 PM
  #18  
Political Exile
 
grundle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 16,390
Likes: 0
Received 3 Likes on 3 Posts
Originally Posted by talemyn
Which article was the one you posted? I must have missed that thread.

My thread is here:

http://forum.dvdtalk.com/showthread.php?t=497634

The link in post 8 explains why the article that I posted is wrong.
Old 04-12-07, 04:14 PM
  #19  
DVD Talk Limited Edition
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Charlotte, NC
Posts: 7,466
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by grundle
My thread is here:

http://forum.dvdtalk.com/showthread.php?t=497634

The link in post 8 explains why the article that I posted is wrong.
Well, it was an entertaining read, if nothing else.
Old 04-12-07, 04:43 PM
  #20  
DVD Talk Hero
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 25,062
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by kvrdave
Nope. Unfortunately, I haven't been able to crack a journal, etc. for pleasure for about 5 months. Sucks. But thanks for the link.
Whoa, whoa. Take your smut talk to the adult forum, buddy.
Old 04-12-07, 04:53 PM
  #21  
DVD Talk Legend
 
Mopower's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: The Janitor's closet in Kinnick Stadium
Posts: 15,726
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by kvrdave
Nope. Unfortunately, I haven't been able to crack a journal, etc. for pleasure for about 5 months. Sucks.

That's what SHE said.
Old 04-14-11, 12:32 PM
  #22  
DVD Talk Legend
 
Bronkster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: AnaheimLand, SoCal
Posts: 15,873
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Re: What's weird about space? Everything! (well, at least 10 things, anyway)

Bumping this instead of starting a new thread. Interesting article on Voyager 1, which is close to leaving our solar system. (oddly, I thought that happened a number of years ago ). Linky here --> V'ger

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information

Copyright 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.