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I hate banks! Question about Mortgage loans.

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I hate banks! Question about Mortgage loans.

Old 10-16-06, 12:27 PM
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I hate banks! Question about Mortgage loans.

We bought a condo about a month ago and there were tons of problems with the loan, but everything eventually got figured out. Well, we went to make our first payment yesterday and they said that our total was $1050 for the 2 loans. Which was very surprising considering our lender said our mortgage payments would only be $938.

When we went to sign the papers for the loan, our lender told us our payment would be $938. He even asked if this was an ok amount for us. We even clarified that our first payment would be due on OCT15 for $938 and he said yes. Well apparently when he told us the $938 amount he only added up the first loan and the taxes, he forgot to add the 2nd loan payment.

Now i could understand this if the two loans were by two different banks but both are handled by TCF. So i talked to the lender again and he said he was going to "crunch some numbers" and that to come back again at 6 tonight. Is there anything i can really do because we don't want to spend an extra $110 a month.

2nd problem. When we got our loan we decided not to put a down payment, and the lender said that was fine. So the loan was for 100% of the price. Well i found out yesterday that the loan was for only 99.452% of the loan. Not a huge difference but when we signed for our loan we had to bring $2400 to closing to cover the taxes and other stuff. And if i my math is right i believe we also payed the difference of .548% Which comes out to around $700 or so. I didn't have a problem giving that money, but why tell me the loan is for 100% when its not? I talked to another lender from TCF about this and she said that it didn't make any sense why they didn't just do 100% of the loan.

If anyone has any help about any of this, i would appreciate it.

Thanks
Old 10-16-06, 12:35 PM
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You have not provided enough info to get much help.

What did the $938 represent? Was that principal and interest only? If so you have to add taxes and insurance. Why do you have two loans? Is one a bridge loan? Is the difference for this second loan?

How could the loan not be for 100% if that is what you asked for? Did you not read the figures? Often times closing is not rolled into the loan.

And finally I have never heard of a lender asking you if the payment was "ok". Either you qualify or you don't. What "bank" was this?
Old 10-16-06, 01:06 PM
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All of this was done at TCF.

When he explained all of the loans to us, he told us that about $700 was for the 1st loan and about $200 for the 2nd loan. For a total of $938. I think he messed up because we got a bill for the 2nd loan for $110. When we first got the loan he made no mention of $110. When we left the bank that day he told us that our first payment would be $938 due on OCT 15.

When we left that day we had every indication that the $938 was for everything. But now we are told that the $938 covers the 1st loan and the taxes. And that we have to pay another $110 for the 2nd loan.

We qualified for the loan without a problem. When we went to sign they asked if the mortgage monthly payment looked good, i think they were just making sure we were comfortable with that payment amount. Which we were, but we're not comfortable with having to pay an additional $110 a month.

In reality, it's not like they are just going to say, "don't worry about the extra money". I realize that we'll most likely still have to pay it, but what upsets me is that i specifically asked, "Our first payment that we are making is $938. right? " And they said yes. But they said that they are going to see what they can do about everything, hopefully i might be able to get a lower rate or something, because if we knew that we were going to paying $1050 a month we probably wouldn't have gotten the loan through them, get a longer loan, or not gotten a loan period.
Old 10-16-06, 01:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Brian Shannon
And finally I have never heard of a lender asking you if the payment was "ok". Either you qualify or you don't.
That sounds like the only reasonable thing the bank did do. They should ask if the payment is OK. Just because you qualify for a $750 or $1500 or $5000 payment doesn't mean you want to pay that much.

The $110 difference doesn't seem to be explainable by a second mortgage, if this was an 80/20 mortgage. The amount of the first payment compared to the amount of the second seems too big.

How do your payments break down? How much is principal and interest? How much is escrow (taxes, insurance if applicable)? Are you paying the condo fee within or outside of the mortgage payment?
Old 10-16-06, 01:08 PM
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lender should have shown you a stack of paperwork because of truth in lending laws and you should have read it

next time read before you sign
Old 10-16-06, 01:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Kocheese99
When he explained all of the loans to us, he told us that about $700 was for the 1st loan and about $200 for the 2nd loan. For a total of $938. I think he messed up because we got a bill for the 2nd loan for $110. When we first got the loan he made no mention of $110. When we left the bank that day he told us that our first payment would be $938 due on OCT 15.
What are the amounts, terms, and rates on these two loans?
Old 10-16-06, 01:19 PM
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I don't have all the paperwork with me right now but this is what i know.

Our first loan is for around $113,000 monthly payment is about $730.
2nd loan is for about $13,000 monthly payment is about $110.
Taxes are $208 a month.
That's the info that i was given today.

When we first got the loan he showed me the $730 payment and the $208 payment and said that the mortgage payment would be $938. What i think happened was that he forgot to mention the other loan payment. Because why would he make sure that we are comfortable making a $938 but not say anything about the total payment of $1050?
Old 10-16-06, 01:32 PM
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At the time of settlement/escrow when you bought the place, was there an attorney present? I'm not sure how this other payment of $110 could've slipped by unnoticed. The only thing I can think of is call the bank and have them cancel your escrow account so you pay your taxes separately whenever they are due. It helps out on monthly cash flow but you will still need to pay that money. I would not suggest refinancing now as it's not going to make any sense, but perhaps in a year or two it will (as you could reap some benefit considering your 6.75% rate).
Old 10-16-06, 01:43 PM
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well i have a meeting with the bank at 6 p.m. tonight and we'll see what we can do. I know $110 is not a huge difference but it adds up over time. I'm not sure if we'll be able to pay the taxes seperately due to issues with the condo. Its just that all of this stuff is driving me crazy, if they would have just flat out said $1050 a month we wouldn't be in this situation.

The funny thing was i asked him if our loan was for 100% of the loan today, and he said yes. Then i asked him why it came out to 99.452%? He didn't really have an answer for it and said that he would have to go back and look through all the numbers.

But i guess this is a lesson learned. Next time i'll just drop the money on a lawyer to just check all of this out, because if i have to do this again i'll kill myself.
Old 10-16-06, 02:03 PM
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The good news is that (more than likely) if you're going to be spending a long time in the house, it will make sense to refinance in 18-24 months (if current economic expectations hold true). Maybe even earlier. Certainly don't do it now to save $50 or $75 bucks.
Old 10-16-06, 02:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Kocheese99
if they would have just flat out said $1050 a month we wouldn't be in this situation.
Answer this question: If they had said the payment was going to be $1050 a month, would you have said OK?

If you answered yes, just start paying the loans and get on with your life. If you answered no, sell the place because you can't afford it.
Old 10-16-06, 03:27 PM
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If they said $1050 flat out, we would have either gotten a longer loan or tried a different bank. That being said, we can still afford $1050, but we would rather not pay that much each month.
Old 10-16-06, 03:35 PM
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And Banks hates you:
Old 10-16-06, 03:46 PM
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Whenever I close loans there is a "first payment letter" that the borower has to sign. With a first and as second there would be 2 closing packages and 2 of those letters. I'm not sure how you wouldn't know exactly how much and when the first payments were due.
Old 10-16-06, 06:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Kocheese99
If they said $1050 flat out, we would have either gotten a longer loan or tried a different bank. That being said, we can still afford $1050, but we would rather not pay that much each month.
didn't you read the GFE as well as the ammortization schedule at closing?
Old 10-16-06, 07:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Timber
Whenever I close loans there is a "first payment letter" that the borower has to sign. With a first and as second there would be 2 closing packages and 2 of those letters. I'm not sure how you wouldn't know exactly how much and when the first payments were due.

At my closing, I had the same thing. Actually, it had the entire ammoritization schedule for the entire 30 years for both loans.
Old 10-16-06, 07:56 PM
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well i got back from the bank and we went through all the paper work and not one thing made mention of the $110 payment per month. There were mentions of the 2nd loan though and the guy we talked to said that even though we were told that our payments were $938 a month that we would still have to pay the extra $110. He told us that the bank's stance is "tough shit, it doesn't matter what we said, they signed the papers".

But the guy we talked to said he was going to talk to a few more people and see if he can work something out. He said it's a 50/50 chance of getting the lower payment and if that doesn't work he said he would probably be able to get the taxes taken off of escrow. So it looks like things might work out. I should know this week. Thankfully the guy there is on our side, because if i had to deal with the lending manager i would be out of luck most likely.
Old 10-16-06, 08:00 PM
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What exactly is taking taxes off your escrow going to accomplish in this situation?
Old 10-16-06, 08:16 PM
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It sounds to me like they gave you the payment of the principle and interest only and did not include the taxes. That happens. Generally with crappy lenders, but I have seen it before.
Old 10-16-06, 08:19 PM
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Well if TCF's lending division is anything like their banking side, then they are very VERY crappy lenders.
Old 10-16-06, 08:25 PM
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Originally Posted by nevermind
What exactly is taking taxes off your escrow going to accomplish in this situation?
Well it would keep the monthly payments low. We would still have to pay a big lump sum once a year, but me and my wife get bonuses at the end of year which will make it easier.

kvrdave: The $938 payment was for our first loan and the taxes. It didn't include the 2nd loan payment.

Well my wife and i also decided that once all this loan crap gets figured out that we are going to pull all of our money out TCF and find a new bank.
Old 10-16-06, 08:29 PM
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Are those bonuses guaranteed? Because the one place you don't want to fuck over come payment time is your county on RE taxes. They'll take your home quicker than the IRS will send you a late notice.
Old 10-16-06, 08:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Kocheese99
I don't have all the paperwork with me right now but this is what i know.

Our first loan is for around $113,000 monthly payment is about $730.
2nd loan is for about $13,000 monthly payment is about $110.
Taxes are $208 a month.
That's the info that i was given today.

When we first got the loan he showed me the $730 payment and the $208 payment and said that the mortgage payment would be $938. What i think happened was that he forgot to mention the other loan payment. Because why would he make sure that we are comfortable making a $938 but not say anything about the total payment of $1050?
so wait, the payments they told you are 730 + 110 + 208 = 1048. what am I missing here? Did you not expect to have to pay for the smaller loan? and what's the point of two loans?
Old 10-16-06, 08:38 PM
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The 2nd loan is probably to avoid PMI
Old 10-16-06, 08:58 PM
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Originally Posted by nevermind
Are those bonuses guaranteed? Because the one place you don't want to fuck over come payment time is your county on RE taxes. They'll take your home quicker than the IRS will send you a late notice.

The bonuses are guarenteed. That's the nice thing.

The 2nd loan was for the PMI.

Brizz:
so wait, the payments they told you are 730 + 110 + 208 = 1048. what am I missing here? Did you not expect to have to pay for the smaller loan? and what's the point of two loans?

When we got the loan, they made no mention of the 110. THey told us that the total for our mortgage was 938. THey never mentioned that we needed to make an additional 110 payment until we actually got the bill.

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