Go Back  DVD Talk Forum > General Discussions > Other Talk
Reload this Page >

Scientists find brain evolution gene

Other Talk "Otterville" plus Religion/Politics

Scientists find brain evolution gene

Old 08-20-06, 07:51 AM
  #1  
DVD Talk Hero
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: MI
Posts: 25,061
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Scientists find brain evolution gene

So, if this gene is "the big one" in separating man from ape,
is it "natural" or "designed?"
(Damn space aliens and their obscene genetic experiments. )

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060816/...rain_evolution
Scientists find brain evolution gene
By SETH BORENSTEIN, AP Science Writer
Wed Aug 16, 7:42 PM ET



WASHINGTON - Scientists believe they have found a key gene that helped the human brain evolve from our chimp-like ancestors. In just a few million years, one area of the human genome seems to have evolved about 70 times faster than the rest of our genetic code. It appears to have a role in a rapid tripling of the size of the brain's crucial cerebral cortex, according to an article published Thursday in the journal Nature.

Study co-author David Haussler, director of the Center for Biomolecular Science and Engineering at the University of California, Santa Cruz, said his team found strong but still circumstantial evidence that a certain gene, called HAR1F, may provide an important answer to the question: "What makes humans brainier than other primates?" Human brains are triple the size of chimp brains.

Looking at 49 areas that have changed the most between the human and chimpanzee genomes, Haussler zeroed in on an area with "a very dramatic change in a relatively short period of time."

That one gene didn't exist until 300 million years ago and is present only in mammals and birds, not fish or animals without backbones. But then it didn't change much at all. There are only two differences in that one gene between a chimp and a chicken, Haussler said.

But there are 18 differences in that one gene between human and chimp and they all seemed to occur in the development of man, he said.


Andrew Clark, a Cornell University professor molecular biology who was not part of Haussler's team, said that if true, the change in genes would be fastest and most dramatic in humans and would be "terrifically exciting."

However, the gene changed so fast that Clark said that he has a hard time believing it unless something unusual happened in a mutation. It's not part of normal evolution, he said. Haussler attributed the dramatic change to the stress of man getting out of trees and walking on two feet.

And it's not just that this gene changed a lot. There is also its involvement with the cerebral cortex, which is responsible for some of the more complex brain functions, including language and information processing.

"It looks like in fact it is important in the development of brain," said co-author Sofie Salama, a research biologist at Santa Cruz who led the efforts to identify where the gene is active in the body.

The scientists still don't know specifically what the gene does. But they know that this same gene turns on in human fetuses at seven weeks after conception and then shuts down at 19 weeks, Haussler said.
Old 08-20-06, 09:43 AM
  #2  
DVD Talk Hero
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Madison, WI ("77 square miles surrounded by reality")
Posts: 30,011
Received 2 Likes on 1 Post
God designed the gene for humans and then made it look like it came into being 300 million years ago and evolved at a rapid rate only in human ancestors.

God, you old jokester, you.

(I read this story yesterday in the paper and I was going to post it and forgot.)
Old 08-20-06, 09:46 AM
  #3  
DVD Talk Legend
 
Mrs. Danger's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: With Nick Danger
Posts: 17,927
Likes: 0
Received 5 Likes on 4 Posts
*sigh* the gene that started it all.... stupid evolution.
Old 08-20-06, 09:58 AM
  #4  
DVD Talk Hero
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: MI
Posts: 25,061
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by Mrs. Danger
*sigh* the gene that started it all.... stupid evolution.
I'd argue for several very important "prior firsts";
*THe origin of life itself
*The first DNA, period
*The first gene for photosynthesis
*The first gene for an animal
*The first gene for a vertebrate
*The first gene for a mammal

Each began an "evolution revolution." A "big brain" gene realy can't help "sea slime."
Old 08-20-06, 10:09 AM
  #5  
DVD Talk Legend
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Working for Gizmonic Institute
Posts: 10,430
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by OldDude
A "big brain" gene realy can't help "sea slime."
Old 08-20-06, 10:24 AM
  #6  
DVD Talk Special Edition
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Out of the sandbox!
Posts: 1,609
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
70 times faster than the rest of our genetic code. It appears to have a role in a rapid tripling of the size of the brain's crucial cerebral cortex, according to an article published Thursday in the journal Nature.
Old 08-20-06, 09:04 PM
  #7  
DVD Talk Limited Edition
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Muskegon, MI
Posts: 5,200
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Apparently 95% of humans don't have this gene.
Old 08-20-06, 10:25 PM
  #8  
DVD Talk Legend
 
Mrs. Danger's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: With Nick Danger
Posts: 17,927
Likes: 0
Received 5 Likes on 4 Posts
I mean the gene that started all THIS nonsense... the internet and stuff.
Old 08-21-06, 01:58 AM
  #9  
DVD Talk Legend
 
Bronkster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: AnaheimLand, SoCal
Posts: 15,883
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Old 08-21-06, 02:05 AM
  #10  
DVD Talk Hall of Fame
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Oklahoma, USA
Posts: 8,494
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Old 08-21-06, 05:35 AM
  #11  
DVD Talk God
 
kvrdave's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Location: Pacific NW
Posts: 86,201
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
How can one argue with good circumstantial evidence like that?

Listen up people...there are 18 differences in this area of the brain between humans and chimps. Therefore, there were intermediate stages in which these differences took place. And we will not be accused of making things fit the theory. This was obvious no matter what.

But when we have scientists who are on par with Al Gore working their hardest, who are we to argue?

IT'S GLOBAL WARMING ALL OVER AGAIN!!!!! RUN!!!!!
Old 08-21-06, 08:35 AM
  #12  
DVD Talk Legend
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 14,204
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by kvrdave
How can one argue with good circumstantial evidence like that?

Listen up people...there are 18 differences in this area of the brain between humans and chimps. Therefore, there were intermediate stages in which these differences took place. And we will not be accused of making things fit the theory. This was obvious no matter what.
Why could these 18 differences not have occured simultaneously with the evolution of the "big brain gene"? Or within a few generations -- which is virtually simultaneous by evolutionary standards?

And Dave, on the subject of "making things fit"... what about the entire "field" of creation science? Isn't it a lot more implausible -- as movielib mentioned jokingly -- that some Divine Being created this gene and all of the scientific evidence of 300 million years of evolution?
Old 08-21-06, 09:12 AM
  #13  
DVD Talk Hero
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Madison, WI ("77 square miles surrounded by reality")
Posts: 30,011
Received 2 Likes on 1 Post
Originally Posted by NCMojo
And Dave, on the subject of "making things fit"... what about the entire "field" of creation science? Isn't it a lot more implausible -- as movielib mentioned jokingly -- that some Divine Being created this gene and all of the scientific evidence of 300 million years of evolution?
I was joking?

But it sounded so good. I love omphalos ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Omphalism ).
Old 08-21-06, 09:40 AM
  #14  
DVD Talk Legend
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 14,204
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by movielib
I was joking?

But it sounded so good. I love omphalos ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Omphalism ).
I thought that you were joking. Then again, who's to say that this entire thread didn't suddenly pop into existence mere minutes before I made my post... and actually it was God that made up your original reply?

That makes a lot of sense. On your own, you could never nearly be that funny.

Old 08-21-06, 09:46 AM
  #15  
Admin-MemeCat
 
VinVega's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Caught between the moon and NYC
Posts: 31,853
Received 23 Likes on 10 Posts
Originally Posted by kvrdave
IT'S GLOBAL WARMING ALL OVER AGAIN!!!!! RUN!!!!!
Ok, but can you explain why God caused global warming? Ah-HA!
Old 08-21-06, 10:11 AM
  #16  
DVD Talk Hero
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Madison, WI ("77 square miles surrounded by reality")
Posts: 30,011
Received 2 Likes on 1 Post
Originally Posted by NCMojo
I thought that you were joking. Then again, who's to say that this entire thread didn't suddenly pop into existence mere minutes before I made my post... and actually it was God that made up your original reply?

That makes a lot of sense. On your own, you could never nearly be that funny.



On my own I didn't exist until god made up this thread (and the rest of the universe) mere minutes before you made your post.
Old 08-21-06, 12:29 PM
  #17  
DVD Talk God
 
kvrdave's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Location: Pacific NW
Posts: 86,201
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by NCMojo
Why could these 18 differences not have occured simultaneously with the evolution of the "big brain gene"? Or within a few generations -- which is virtually simultaneous by evolutionary standards?
Evolution can do anything. I learned that a long time ago. There is nothing that cannot be explained by evolution, and nothing that could disprove it, so your idea of sudden huge amounts of evolution is very plausible....as is every other explanation that could be thought up, and will be.
Old 08-21-06, 12:54 PM
  #18  
DVD Talk Hero
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: MI
Posts: 25,061
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by kvrdave
Listen up people...there are 18 differences in this area of the brain between humans and chimps. Therefore, there were intermediate stages in which these differences took place.
There very probably were intermediate stages, and we know there were many hominid "dead ends" before homo sapiens. Homo sapiens may have killed them all, in a glorified "there can be only one" or, they may have been "unsuccessful" for other reasons, not strong enough to compete with chimps, smart enough to compete with "next-gen." hominids or carve out a niche of their own.

And these 18 changes happened over "a few million years", lets say six so I can divide. Thats one (successful) birth defect every 300,000 years, not impossible.

I fail to see why your credulity is so stressed by this.
Old 08-21-06, 01:01 PM
  #19  
Mod Emeritus
 
Gallant Pig's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Posts: 15,325
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
I blame it on the flood of Noah. DAMN YOU NOAH.
Old 08-21-06, 01:12 PM
  #20  
DVD Talk God
 
kvrdave's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Location: Pacific NW
Posts: 86,201
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by OldDude
I fail to see why your credulity is so stressed by this.
I guess I don't feel any credulity. Just seems like a study where the guy admits he only has circumstantial evidence, and he has basically said there is a big difference between chimps and humans, so the change to place. Maybe there is much more to the study, but it seems like a pretty simple "make sure it fits the model" type study.

I am surprised you don't see the similarities in these types of things and environmental sciences.
Old 08-21-06, 01:24 PM
  #21  
DVD Talk Legend
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 14,204
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Circumstantial evidence? Dave, you're aware that all of this was purported to have happened 300 million years ago?!?!? Just how much "direct" evidence do you suppose would still be there???
Old 08-21-06, 01:27 PM
  #22  
DVD Talk God
 
kvrdave's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Location: Pacific NW
Posts: 86,201
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
For a theory that is touted as fact, in the same way gravity is, I think you could have something more substantial than "there are differences, we assume we evolved from the former, so the differences happened in between."
Old 08-21-06, 01:45 PM
  #23  
DVD Talk Hero
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: MI
Posts: 25,061
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
You can experiment on gravity a lot more.

We lack the technology so it's a moot point. But look at the furor over cloning. Can you imagine the furor if we had the ability to clone animals with individual genes turned on or off, or replaced with another gene but little nano-machines, and basically could write DNA like computer code? People would go nuts. But without the ability to turn these gene features on and off or change them at will, scientists are largely searching in the dark for answers.

(If we had the ability I outlined above, it would be a little scary and I suspect we'd make a lot of monsters and unintended side effects by mistake. A long time before we could try it on human DNA)
Old 08-21-06, 01:46 PM
  #24  
DVD Talk Hero
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: MI
Posts: 25,061
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by Gallant Pig
I blame it on the flood of Noah. DAMN YOU NOAH.
Well, if you believe the story, it was God's flood. Noah just built a boat and saved a few critters.
Old 08-21-06, 03:04 PM
  #25  
DVD Talk Godfather
 
Giantrobo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: South Bay
Posts: 57,613
Received 7 Likes on 5 Posts
Screw all this talk, let's get practical. How can I activate this "gene" so I can grow wings or Astroglide glands in the palms of my hands?

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information

Copyright 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.