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Do you find that: The simplest answer is usually the right answer?

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Do you find that: The simplest answer is usually the right answer?

Old 08-19-06, 03:18 PM
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Do you find that: The simplest answer is usually the right answer?

Ive been trying to figure shit out latley and discussing it with people close to me. When I try to figure stuff or people out I wonder tons of different things. From far fetched ideas (yet completely possible) to simple explanations. As an extreme pessimist I think the worst of everything, but Ive heard and sometimes noticed the simplest things can be the right answer.

Has anyone here in their dealings of trying to figure stuff out and put things together noticed that at the end of it all, the simplest answer was the right answer?
Old 08-19-06, 03:24 PM
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Yup....look at women. The simple answer is that they are crazy, and i'm pretty sure that is the right answer.

-p
Old 08-19-06, 03:24 PM
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Yes and no.
Old 08-19-06, 03:41 PM
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I hear that.

Of course its yes and no but its usually one more than the other.
Old 08-19-06, 04:02 PM
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Briliant!
Old 08-19-06, 04:35 PM
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Ya I have come to learn that simple is best. This may be because im lazy but it just works.
Old 08-19-06, 04:40 PM
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The more complex the solution, the more than can go wrong while trying to implement it.
Old 08-19-06, 04:41 PM
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Yea it can keep worrying and racking your brain to a huge minimum.

Im just wondering have found that the title statement is true.
Old 08-19-06, 04:59 PM
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Old 08-19-06, 05:10 PM
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Originally Posted by X
Yes and no.
That's too complicated of an answer, please be more clear
Old 08-19-06, 05:22 PM
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I was going to post the quote that Bandoman did. That's usually right. Simple answers look good on paper, but often have unforeseen consequences.

My favorite quote on the subject (yes, I have a favorite quote on the subject) is from Albert Schweitzer, who said, "From naive simplicity we arrive at more profound simplicity," which I find to be true. When there are complex problems, a simple answer is usually wrong but it will often put you on the right track to finding the right answer.

I'm a web applications developer, and in programming the simplest solutions are almost always wrong. Oh, they'll work, but they will eventually cause problems of their own sooner or later (usually sooner). A little up-front complexity can lead to increased simplicity down the road, instead of the other way around.
Old 08-19-06, 05:29 PM
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We live in a dangerous period, more so now than at any other time in history, for the problems we are faced with are profoundly complex. Any error in resolving these problems could lead to a negative transformation of the social structure and /or worldwide destruction. This danger lies in our reliance on simple solutions to complex problems, an ideology that is as old as the golden age of classical Greece. This reliance on simplicity can lead to misinformation, distortion, and death in every human enterprise including the humanities, science, religion, government, and economics. The goal of this paper is to demonstrate the error in our quest for simplicity. With four laws of complexity, I shall demonstrate that simplicity and complexity are incompatible; and that a simple description for a complex structure is, at best, a defective abstract, misinformation, and /or an altered state of the complex structure. In this paper, a complex structure, whether it be found in nature, science, or any human endeavor, refers to the complete state of the structure; which include all elements of matter, energy, and information. This includes the factorial of all possible interactions between the elements both within the structure itself and with its external environment. The four laws of complexity will demonstrate that simple solutions to complex problems are inadequate and that complex solutions to complex problems are difficult to achieve, for as the problem increases in complexity, our ability to understand it decreases. In conclusion, I will demonstrate that any approach to resolving complex problems can lead to a radical change and /or transformation within the problem itself as well as the host structure in which the problem is found.




Four Laws of Complexity

1. Simplicity and complexity are two distinct entities, opposite ends on a vast continuum; you cannot use one to describe the other.

2. You cannot express a simple explanation for a complex structure without altering the structure being studied.

3 You can not describe a complex structure without knowing all of its parts.

4. You cannot affect a complex structure without cause and effect; change and /or transformation must occur with any addition to or subtraction from the complex structure. In regard to the first law, both simplicity and complexity are incompatible. If we were to view this state as a mathematical formula whereby one is the simplest element we can achieve, and ten is the physical structure (a system with ten active parts), it is easy to see the problem. There is no way that a single element can take into account ten active parts and the factorial of all their possible interactions. This single element (or simple solution) is what we try to achieve in resolving complex problems. Even if we were to bring three or four elements into the simple solution, we would not be able to solve the problem: complex problems require complex solutions.

When we write a simple description or remedy to a complex problem we violate the second law of complexity. In both cases, we change the dynamics of the complex problem rather than describe or resolve it. This change in dynamics can be seen in the comparison of the Mona Lisa by Leonardo Da Vinci and the complexity of the female subject. No one would view this painting as an accurate description of the model. In its very simplicity, it says next to nothing with regards to the vast complexities of her life. Even the faithful reproduction of her image was simplified, and thus altered: first, by the reduction of her three dimensions of flesh, bone, and blood into the two dimensions of paint on panel; and second, by the artist's history, intellect, emotion, and the process by which he transcribed what lay before him. When scientist or politicians write or express a simple description to a complex structure they are altering the structure in the same fashion as did Leonardo. Any attempt to base policies on a simple description that is, at best, an altered state of the complex problem, can lead to direr consequences. Simple solutions are for simple problems.

In very high levels of complexity any description or solution is impossible to achieve without violating the third law of complexity. This law states that all elements to a complex problem must be known before an adequate solution or description can be expressed. This includes all elements of matter, energy, and information; as well as the factorial of all their interactions. This data lies on a continuum between the very large and the very small and from the visible to the invisible. Within this continuum lies vital information that is essential for a comprehensive understanding of a complex problem. It is with absolute certainty that we will miss much of this data in our quest for understanding and subsequent resolution to the problem.

The two major principles that lead to uncertainty lie in the invisible or hidden data and the factorial of all possible interaction between the elements. A complex structure with five active parts has a factorial of possible interactions set at 120; if we add just one more element the factorial rises to 720; and at ten elements, it is 3,628,800. If only ten percent were critical interactions we could not distinguish them from the larger set. Miscalculating the importance of minor data, interactions, or structural elements can lead to a critical error, for all interconnected elements have a direct or indirect influence upon the functions of a complex structure. Failure to detect or utilize this data can lead to a decrease in complexity and thus alter our description of the complex structure.

The violation of complex law one, two or three alters the perception of a complex problem, and thus its subsequent solution will be flawed. Since the description and solution are simple, but the actual structure and problem are complex, we have a set of incompatible principles (Law 1). The simple description and solution becomes an altered state of the complex structure and problem (Law 2), for simplicity by its very nature must eliminate the major body of interconnected elements, and thus violate Law 3. The Fourth Laws of Complexity comes into play when we interact with a complex structure or problem. Any action, whether it be simple or complex, can lead to an increased or decrease in complexity, and thus affect change and /or transformation within the complex structure.

Within the four laws of complexity lies an impossible paradox whereby a true description of a complex structure or problem is impossible to achieve, and thus its subsequent solution will be flawed. This dilemma increases in direct proportion to the geometric progression of complexity. Beyond a certain point-degree of complexity-lies a vicious web that touches everything. Change and/or transformation in any part of a complex structure can spread throughout the system and infect its adjacent web of interconnected elements. Society, for example, is such a system with many layers including the individual, politics, economics, religion, art, science, technology, and so forth. Change in any one part of society can infect all adjacent social structures. Evidence for this kind of infestation can be found in many historical events. Jesus, Newton, and Hitler are monumental epicenters of a radical social transformation. Equally powerful instruments of social change came forth from the invention of the printing press, television and computers. The number of epicenters both large and small, unmeasurable by its vast complexity, goes on to reveal a dynamic system of change and transformation. The social structure, an epicenter in the vast complexities of nature, is evolving with gradual and abrupt changes in its ever-expanding complexity. In such a system the more complex a structure becomes, the more it is subject to change and transformation.
Society will soon find itself in a state of chaos due to an imbalance in our management of the social structure and its relationship to nature. To maintain stability, our management of resources and fabrication of laws must keep pace with the expanding complexities of the social structure. Contrary to our present-day policy of reduction, cut backs, and simplicity, we should be expanding in the opposite direction to keep pace with development. Whether our struggle is for human rights, preservation of the planet, economic development, or scientific investigation, complex fabrication of policy must take into account every element of the complex structure or problem. This of course, as previously stated, is difficult or impossible to achieve. But for the sake of society and earth itself, every effort must be made to achieve a comprehensive policy for development, laws, and investigation. We must match complex structures and problems with equally complex descriptions and solutions. We must do so even with great certainty our actions will change the fabric of society. The fear of change need not be great if we follow the path of justice. If we choose the direction for the improvement of life, our actions will be life sustaining. But, if we choose to protect the status quo when change is imperative, we run the risk of a negative transformation of the social structure and increase our potential for total destruction.

Put me down for a maybe.
Old 08-19-06, 10:00 PM
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Originally Posted by JasonF

Briliant!

Balderdash!
Old 08-19-06, 10:25 PM
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sometimes.

or not.
Old 08-20-06, 03:12 AM
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Damn Graftenberg , thats pretty heavy. I may have to read it again for a full understanding. Is this some paper you wrote or something pulled from the net.

Maybe I read it too fast but it seems to say, why bother trying to figure out a problem you dont have all the info for ? It could be a simple answer or difficult; it all depends on the information and problem. You cant solve anything correctly without knowing every little thing about it. In most cases thats impossible though, so why bother?
Old 08-20-06, 09:07 AM
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yes
Old 08-20-06, 09:38 AM
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http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/AS...839037?ie=UTF8

Old 08-20-06, 10:32 AM
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Occum's razor... "All things being equal the simplest answer is usually the right one"
Old 08-20-06, 11:18 AM
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And God said:



and there was light.
Old 08-21-06, 01:53 AM
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I start at the simplest answer, and go from there. Similar to what BwG said.
Old 08-21-06, 02:00 AM
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Old 08-21-06, 02:54 PM
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So are you telling me Jewel got it right all along?

http://www.buy.com/prod/what_s_simpl...200883292.html
Old 08-21-06, 03:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Bronkster


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