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Ever get for playing good cards well?

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Ever get for playing good cards well?

Old 08-17-06, 11:31 PM
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Ever get for playing good cards well?

So in my money game tonight, I was dealt aces with regularity. After knocking out one player with my AA to KK, three hands later I'm back in the same position, with AA. So I push all in after baiting my friend to commit to the pot, figuring that he wouldn't think I'd have pocket AAs again three hands later and he'll call. He does and I knock him out too. My friend was livid and refused to acknowledge that I might actually know what I'm doing, and pointed to the fact that I just had good cards. 10 hands or so later, I knock out the remaining player heads up with pocket queens. My pals were besides themselves. I damn near left without giving them the opportunity to win some of their money back, but decided to be the bigger man.

The bottom line is that they refused to acknowledge that there is some skill to playing good cards well. It just pissed me off to get shit on for knocking them all down and having them chalk it up to "luck". This ever happen to any of you?
Old 08-17-06, 11:32 PM
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Maybe you aren't good at cards, and that's why they were pissed off when you were winnings? I dunno.
Old 08-17-06, 11:44 PM
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Originally Posted by moorehed
Maybe you aren't good at cards, and that's why they were pissed off when you were winnings? I dunno.
I don't claim to be a poker expert, but I'd wager that I hang with most players for quite awhile.

Good at cards. LOL.
Old 08-18-06, 01:13 AM
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Originally Posted by DVD Josh
So in my money game tonight, I was dealt aces with regularity. After knocking out one player with my AA to KK, three hands later I'm back in the same position, with AA. So I push all in after baiting my friend to commit to the pot, figuring that he wouldn't think I'd have pocket AAs again three hands later and he'll call. He does and I knock him out too. My friend was livid and refused to acknowledge that I might actually know what I'm doing, and pointed to the fact that I just had good cards. 10 hands or so later, I knock out the remaining player heads up with pocket queens. My pals were besides themselves. I damn near left without giving them the opportunity to win some of their money back, but decided to be the bigger man.

The bottom line is that they refused to acknowledge that there is some skill to playing good cards well. It just pissed me off to get shit on for knocking them all down and having them chalk it up to "luck". This ever happen to any of you?
There is a lot of luck involved in poker but getting good starting cards and maximizing your winnings when you get a monster hand takes skill. Your table image often plays a big part in how others play you. I've been on both sides of your situation and would say that yes it was lucky you got so many monster starting hands in such a short time span but it was also your friends' inability to read you too that helped you to win. It was also your skill in getting them to commit their chips when you had the best hand. In a way, you were both right.
Old 08-18-06, 03:39 AM
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Given the fact that your friends think that its all luck, I can't imagine it'd be terribly difficult to take them out of any tournament.
Old 08-18-06, 07:27 AM
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Originally Posted by El Scorcho
Given the fact that your friends think that its all luck, I can't imagine it'd be terribly difficult to take them out of any tournament.
That's been the case lately, actually. I play with one friend consistently with different groups, and he plays what I would deem technically perfect poker. However, I feel he's unsuccessful because he fails to realize that rarely does anyone else.
Old 08-18-06, 12:54 PM
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That's like the third time I've seen you post the term "technically perfect poker". You do realize that there's no such thing in a game of incomplete information, right?
Old 08-18-06, 01:30 PM
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It does take skill to play good hands well (especially so if we were talking about getting away from good hands). However, you did get lucky to get AA, AA, and QQ within a short period of time, and even moreso when you consider that an opponent had KK one of the times that you had AA and that all of your hands held up. The odds against that are extremely long.

Just be a gracious winner and let them vent. Running into someone getting hit in the face by the deck, even if that person a good player, sucks.

And Scorcho is right, "Technically perfect poker" doesn't exist.
Old 08-18-06, 01:46 PM
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Just remember the other shoe will drop and there will be those nights when AA and KK and QQ are like death sentences.
Old 08-18-06, 06:19 PM
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Originally Posted by El Scorcho
That's like the third time I've seen you post the term "technically perfect poker". You do realize that there's no such thing in a game of incomplete information, right?
That's absolutely untrue. You can make the perfect play considering your hole cards, position, opposition betting, odds, pot size, stack size, etc. My point is that playing that way against other players who do not puts that player at a distinct disadvantage, and watching the result of my friends play against "gut" players reinforces that to me.
Old 08-18-06, 06:21 PM
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Originally Posted by El Scorcho
Just remember the other shoe will drop and there will be those nights when AA and KK and QQ are like death sentences.
I am 2/5 in the past month with pocket aces in money games. The result of those other three? Twice knocked out, once severely crippled.

I totally agree with the classic statement "pocket aces are only good for winning small pots and losing big ones".
Old 08-18-06, 06:32 PM
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Originally Posted by DVD Josh
That's absolutely untrue. You can make the perfect play considering your hole cards, position, opposition betting, odds, pot size, stack size, etc.
Your odds are based on hand ranges and reads, though, which are anything but perfect. There also is no one right way to play a hand.

"Technically perfect" makes no sense in terms of poker. This isn't Blackjack where there is an optimal strategy.
Old 08-18-06, 06:36 PM
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Originally Posted by DVD Josh
That's absolutely untrue. You can make the perfect play considering your hole cards, position, opposition betting, odds, pot size, stack size, etc. My point is that playing that way against other players who do not puts that player at a distinct disadvantage, and watching the result of my friends play against "gut" players reinforces that to me.
You do realize that there are several top-class players that go with gut instincts from time to time, right? Jennifer Harman admits to doing so.

There's no technically perfect anything when it comes to guessing what other players have in their hands. You can have a general idea of a hand range (as Jeremy points out) and make a play based on that range but all it is is an educated guess.

If technically perfect poker even existed and you played it, you'd have 40+ 2006 WSOP bracelets to your name right now and a shitload of cash.
Old 08-18-06, 06:36 PM
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Originally Posted by DVD Josh
I totally agree with the classic statement "pocket aces are only good for winning small pots and losing big ones".
This is what fish say. This is the same kind of crap as "AK - Anna Kournikova - always looks good but never wins" or "I hate pocket jacks."
Old 08-18-06, 06:41 PM
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If you're losing a lot of huge pots with AA, even Anthony Curtis thinks you're probably overplaying them.
Old 08-18-06, 06:41 PM
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Originally Posted by El Scorcho
This is what fish say. This is the same kind of crap as "AK - Anna Kournikova - always looks good but never wins" or "I hate pocket jacks."
I've found it to be semi-accurate in my experience. I personally play them aggressively, and have had mixed success doing so, but that doesn't mean that it will stop me.
Old 08-18-06, 06:43 PM
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Originally Posted by El Scorcho
You do realize that there are several top-class players that go with gut instincts from time to time, right? Jennifer Harman admits to doing so.

There's no technically perfect anything when it comes to guessing what other players have in their hands. You can have a general idea of a hand range (as Jeremy points out) and make a play based on that range but all it is is an educated guess.

If technically perfect poker even existed and you played it, you'd have 40+ 2006 WSOP bracelets to your name right now and a shitload of cash.
You make my point well Scorch. NO ONE PLAYS THAT WAY. What I'm trying to get my friend to do is realize it.

Your logic assumes that everyone else at the table is playing that way as well. That's the only way you'd be that successful. As we both know, that's not the case.

We are probably arguing semantics at this point.
Old 08-18-06, 09:05 PM
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If you called it playing "By the book" then there would be no arguements and you'd be making the same point.
Old 08-18-06, 11:18 PM
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Originally Posted by El Scorcho
This is what fish say. This is the same kind of crap as "AK - Anna Kournikova - always looks good but never wins" or "I hate pocket jacks."
Exactly. Those are premium starting hands, odds make them favorites. And if you know how to bet them, against different kinds of opponents, you can make bank.
Old 08-18-06, 11:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Mrs.Nesbit
If you called it playing "By the book" then there would be no arguements and you'd be making the same point.
Closer to correct, but give me $100 bucks and I'd get you at least 3 books with contradictory information and recomendations in them.

Scorcho is correct there is massive incomplete info. But that is a hurdle that can be overcome. On top of that is dealing with different styles of play from different opponents. If I'm in middle position AA might be worth a small pre-flop raise, a large pre-flop raise, or a simply call, depending on my opponents. Books don't outline every situation and possible combination of opponents.

Then there's simple disagreements which are tough to prove. For example, one book will suggest you play the opposite of your opponents. If everyone is tight, you need to play looser. If everyone is loose, you need to play tighter.

On the other hand, you'll get someone else saying you should play more hands if your opponents are tight or loose. If they're tight, you need to bluff more. If they're loose, you need to lower your starting requirements for hands. You can make passionate arguments on both sides. As an aside, I used to go for the 'opposite' strategy (Sklansky, Malmuth), but lately switched to the loosening up when they are too lose(Caro).
Old 08-21-06, 12:25 PM
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It's better to be lucky than good, but it's best to be both.

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