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Noah's Ark found!? I doubt it.

Old 03-15-06, 07:09 PM
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Noah's Ark found!? I doubt it.

http://edition.cnn.com/2006/TECH/spa...ite.noahs.ark/

Satellite closes in on Noah's Ark mystery

By Leonard David
SPACE.comexternal link
Tuesday, March 14, 2006 Posted: 0307 GMT (1107 HKT)

(SPACE.com) -- High on Mount Ararat in eastern Turkey, there is a baffling mountainside "anomaly," a feature that one researcher claims may be something of biblical proportions.

Images taken by aircraft, intelligence-gathering satellites and commercial remote-sensing spacecraft are fueling an intensive study of the intriguing oddity. But whether the anomaly is some geological quirk of nature, playful shadows, a human-made structure of some sort, or simply nothing at all remains to be seen.

Whatever it is, the anomaly of interest rests at 15,300 feet (4,663 meters) on the northwest corner of Mount Ararat, and is nearly submerged in glacial ice. It would be easy to call it merely a strange rock formation.

But at least one man wonders if it could be the remains of Noah's Ark, a vessel said to have been built to save people and selected animals from the Great Flood, the 40 days and 40 nights of deluge as detailed in the Book of Genesis.

The Genesis blueprint of the Ark detailed the structure as 6:1 length to width ratio (300 cubits by 50 cubits). The anomaly, as viewed by satellite, is close to that 6:1 proportion.

Newfound optimism

Identifying the Ararat anomaly has been a 13-year quest of Porcher Taylor, an associate professor in paralegal studies at the University of Richmond's School of Continuing Studies in Virginia.

Taylor has been a national security analyst for more than 30 years, also serving as a senior associate for five years at the Center for Strategic and International Studies (CSIS) in Washington, D.C.

"I've got newfound optimism ... as far as my continuing push to have the intelligence community declassify some of the more definitive-type imagery," Taylor told SPACE.com/LiveScience. He points to a "new and significant development," a high-resolution image taken by DigitalGlobe's impressive QuickBird satellite and shown here publicly for the first time [alternate version with no annotation].

"I'm calling this my satellite archeology project," Taylor said. It's an effort that has now included use of QuickBird, GeoEye's Ikonos spacecraft, Canada's Radarsat 1, as well as declassified aerial and satellite images taken by the various U.S. intelligence agencies.

Making the mountain transparent

Taylor said his goal is straightforward: Combining this imagery to make the Ararat anomaly transparent to the public, as well as to the discerning, dispassionate eyes of scientists, imagery analysts, and other experts.

"I had no preconceived notions or agendas when I began this in 1993 as to what I was looking for," Taylor said.

As for the saga of Noah's Ark, he is quick to note that there are those who say it is fable while some take it as truth.

Nevertheless, the anomaly may not be a ridge line of ice, snow and possibly rock, but an artificial ridge line, Taylor said. "I maintain that if it is the remains of something manmade and potentially nautical, then it's potentially something of biblical proportions."

While chiding the intelligence communities to release more of their closely guarded satellite imagery, Taylor said that soon-to-fly commercial remote sensing spacecraft are sure to help his archeological undertaking.

"We've got three new birds that are going up. I'm using all my clout, rapport and lobbying to, hopefully, have them at least fly calibration runs over Mount Ararat," Taylor said. Those images would make the mountain even more transparent, he said.

Will it float?

Meanwhile, Taylor has an ever-expanding network of experts to help tease out the truth about the anomaly.

For example, satellite imagery analyst Rod Franz of SunTek Media Group/RiteImage, Inc., located in Henderson, Nevada, has taken a look at imagery provided by Taylor of the Ararat anomaly and carried out additional analysis of the area. As director of training for the firm, Franz sharpened his skills by serving nearly 25 years as a military intelligence imagery analyst.

For the anomaly assessment, the same software tools used for studying government and commercial remote sensing data were employed, Franz told SPACE.com/LiveScience. Ground distances and scales of the anomaly were determined. That software also has the ability to adjust brightness, haze, sharpness, contrast and other factors of the area of interest, he said.

"Along with many other image manipulation functions ... I also used the pseudo-color function trying to determine if I could detect anything under the ice and snow," Franz said.

The face of the anomaly measured 1,015 feet (309 meters) across, Franz said. "I also found the shape of the anomaly appears to fit on a circle. I am not sure what this means, if anything, but I find it curious."

Given that length, Taylor pointed out, the anomaly dwarfs the Titanic and Bismarck in size, and equals the size of the largest modern aircraft carrier. That analysis would seem to call into question whether the anomaly is a wooden ship and raises a key question: If a boat were truly that huge, would it float?

There are also experts in remote sensing who offer a skeptical view. "Image interpretation is an art," said Farouk El-Baz, Director of the Boston University Center for Remote Sensing.

"One has to be familiar with sun lighting effects on the shape of observed features," El-Baz said. "Very slight changes in slope modify shadow shapes that affect the interpretations. Up to this time, all the images I have seen can be interpreted as natural landforms. The feature that has been interpreted as the 'Ararat Anomaly' is to me a ledge of rock in partial shadow, with varied thickness of snow and ice cover.

Visual truth serum

Thanks to more satellite imagery in the offing, as well as other studies under way, Taylor said his remote archaeological research is on the upswing.

There is an ultimate end-game. That is, on-the-spot ground truth --and Taylor hopes his research findings will catalyze a top-notch expedition to the area. "It is whatever it is," he said.

But for now, satellite remote sensing to carry out archaeological "digs" from space will fill in for an in-the-field expedition.

Just a few weeks ago, for example, NASA scientists utilizing space- and aircraft-based remote sensing hardware and techniques uncovered Maya ruins hidden in the rainforests of Central America for more than 1,000 years.

"For explorers, imagery from GeoEye's Ikonos satellite married with Global Positioning System (GPS) satellite data has become as indispensable as water and freeze-dried food for any expedition. One does not want to leave home without it," said Mark Brender, GeoEye vice president for communications and marketing, headquartered in Dulles, Virginia.

For researchers, images from space like those provided by GeoEye provide "the ultimate high shot" and a contextual view that couldn't be had from observations on the ground or even from a plane, Brender told SPACE.com/LiveScience. "It's visual truth serum."
So how many times has Noah's Ark been "found" and how many photographs show something "interesting" and/or "anomalous"? Dozens? A quick Google search revealed many claims and some pictures of the supposed Ark, none of which are the one presently being investigated by Porcher Taylor in the above article.

This looks like another example of the infamous "Face on Mars" syndrome. See something that seems a bit strange and decide it's just what you want to see.

I also suspect that satellites get pictures of a lot of "anomalous" things but no one pays much attention. In this case it's on Mt. Ararat so it's a big deal.

Also, it's my understanding that the Bible says the Ark came to rest "on the mountains of Ararat." That does not even necessarily mean Ararat itself but somewhere in a big mountain range. Concentrating solely on Ararat makes no sense even if one believes the Bible.

Still, it would be interesting to go on an expedition. Who's up for it? kvrdave?

Last edited by movielib; 03-15-06 at 07:34 PM.
Old 03-15-06, 07:13 PM
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I don't care if it rained for 40 days/nights, 15,300 feet of water is a LOT of water. There is simply no evidence the world flooded to such a depth and such a depth could not be a "local" flood.

If there is ANY reality to the legend, it is more like the flooding of the present Black Sea, which used to be dry land.
Old 03-15-06, 07:31 PM
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Snagged noahsarkthemovie.com
Old 03-15-06, 07:39 PM
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Old 03-15-06, 08:11 PM
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Satellite pics referenced from the Space.com article:

http://www.space.com/php/multimedia/...A+DigitalGlobe

http://www.space.com/php/multimedia/...t%3A+Rod+Franz

http://www.space.com/php/multimedia/...orcher+Taylor+

http://www.space.com/php/multimedia/...idiary+of+MDA.
Old 03-15-06, 08:16 PM
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Originally Posted by movielib
Still, it would be interesting to go on an expedition. Who's up for it? kvrdave?
You're closer.

http://local.live.com/default.aspx?v...%27s%20Ark%3f_
Old 03-15-06, 08:27 PM
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That's 16 feet of rain per hour for each of the 40 days - assuming it didn't let up at all. 192 inches of rain per hour...over 3 inches per minute. That's not a flood - it's a deluge that will level mountains.

A wooden ark, no matter how well it's built, would be able to deal with that sort of rainfall.

And the other question is...where did all that water go?
Old 03-15-06, 08:32 PM
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I'd say it's just as likely that's a UFO of some kind (Unidentified Fallen Object) as Noah's Ark. But I'm not ruling out either one at this point.
Old 03-15-06, 08:34 PM
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Originally Posted by naughty jonny
And the other question is...where did all that water go?
Same place it came from.

*poof*
Old 03-15-06, 08:36 PM
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i still don't get why people take bible stories literally
Old 03-15-06, 08:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Thor Simpson
I'd say it's just as likely that's a UFO of some kind (Unidentified Fallen Object) as Noah's Ark. But I'm not ruling out either one at this point.
I thought there was supposed to be an old monastary up there somewhere.
Old 03-15-06, 08:47 PM
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I tend to believe in the story of Noah, though I think the flood is local. I would say I believe it wiped out all of humanity except those on the ark, however. I wouldn't expect the water to rise nearly 15,000 feet. I also see the "40 days and 40 nights" as an idiom meaning something similar to "a long time" and you see similar things other places in the bible. The culture was less rigorous in their dialect that we tend to be, as are other cultures today. Likewise, you wouldn't have every single animal on the ark, just those that had been in the area and affected by mankind.

I also tend to think that one of the first things that happened when it was all over was that Noah and everyone else took the ark apart to use the wood for some other purpose. Seems stupid not to.

I've read several studies on whether or not the ark could be sea worthy, but most tend to try to make it live up to standards that were used for boats that were made to sail and last, and don't focus on just a one time trip where you only needed to float. And then the dreaded "gopher wood" controversy.




But I think these are all crap, just like the 18 tons of wood that have been sold as splinters of the cross that Jesus was crucified on.
Old 03-15-06, 09:00 PM
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Originally Posted by leepyswetr
Not "spiritually."
Old 03-15-06, 09:03 PM
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Originally Posted by kvrdave
I've read several studies on whether or not the ark could be sea worthy, but most tend to try to make it live up to standards that were used for boats that were made to sail and last, and don't focus on just a one time trip where you only needed to float. And then the dreaded "gopher wood" controversy.
You have a valid point that it just needs to float, not sail. However, it has got to float in a bitch of storm, while it's raining 16' of rain per hour, or what ever amount. How do your rivers look when it rains 1-2" of rain an hour for a few days. Ever watched the Mississippi flood every year? The boat has to be pretty damn seaworthy, or held together by a containment field or a miracle.

Obviously, we can't detail the storm, but expecting that it is floating calmly in a pleasant puddle of water doesn't seem likely.
Old 03-15-06, 09:24 PM
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Originally Posted by kvrdave
But I think these are all crap, just like the 18 tons of wood that have been sold as splinters of the cross that Jesus was crucified on.
What?! You mean that guy on Ebay ripped me off?? Dammit!
Old 03-15-06, 09:54 PM
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Originally Posted by OldDude
The boat has to be pretty damn seaworthy, or held together by a containment field or a miracle.
It was equipped with inertial dampeners.
Old 03-15-06, 10:09 PM
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Originally Posted by kvrdave
I tend to believe in the story of Noah, though I think the flood is local. I would say I believe it wiped out all of humanity except those on the ark, however. I wouldn't expect the water to rise nearly 15,000 feet. I also see the "40 days and 40 nights" as an idiom meaning something similar to "a long time" and you see similar things other places in the bible. The culture was less rigorous in their dialect that we tend to be, as are other cultures today. Likewise, you wouldn't have every single animal on the ark, just those that had been in the area and affected by mankind.
Originally Posted by Genesis 6:11-22
11 Now the earth was corrupt in God's sight and was full of violence. 12 God saw how corrupt the earth had become, for all the people on earth had corrupted their ways. 13 So God said to Noah, "I am going to put an end to all people, for the earth is filled with violence because of them. I am surely going to destroy both them and the earth. 14 So make yourself an ark of cypress [c] wood; make rooms in it and coat it with pitch inside and out. 15 This is how you are to build it: The ark is to be 450 feet long, 75 feet wide and 45 feet high. [d] 16 Make a roof for it and finish [e] the ark to within 18 inches [f] of the top. Put a door in the side of the ark and make lower, middle and upper decks. 17 I am going to bring floodwaters on the earth to destroy all life under the heavens, every creature that has the breath of life in it. Everything on earth will perish. 18 But I will establish my covenant with you, and you will enter the ark—you and your sons and your wife and your sons' wives with you. 19 You are to bring into the ark two of all living creatures, male and female, to keep them alive with you. 20 Two of every kind of bird, of every kind of animal and of every kind of creature that moves along the ground will come to you to be kept alive. 21 You are to take every kind of food that is to be eaten and store it away as food for you and for them."

22 Noah did everything just as God commanded him.
Seems pretty unambiguous -- I am going to put an end to all people, for the earth is filled with violence because of them. I am surely going to destroy both them and the earth. Everything on earth will perish. Every kind of creature that moves along the ground will come to you to be kept alive. Not a local flood -- not just the animals in the area.

Why is it that you can bend the word of God to your will some of the time, but not all of the time? If you're not going to believe that Genesis is literal truth, then why believe that a man named Noah lived, received the word of God, and built an Ark? Isn't it simpler just to see this part of Genesis as just the Jewish version of the "great flood" myth common in cultures across the world?

And if that part of Genesis can be interpreted as being something less than the literal truth... then why couldn't the Garden of Eden be allegorical as well?
Old 03-15-06, 10:48 PM
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looks like a normal mountain to me
Old 03-15-06, 11:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Breakfast with Girls
It was equipped with inertial dampeners.
You bastard.

Mojo, I will be retiring to the Man Room in a few, and will enlighten you.
Old 03-15-06, 11:30 PM
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I remember seeing a show on Discovery channel. It was about what some scientists say as the basis for the Noah story. Their was a block where the Black Sea meets with the Mediterranien. And when it broke free it caused a deluge that flooded miles inland around the Black Sea. Thus causing what people thought of the flood. They have found buildings and signs of settlements a mile from shore.

Does anyone know the title of this show? I would like to see it again.
Old 03-15-06, 11:40 PM
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Originally Posted by NCMojo
Seems pretty unambiguous -- I am going to put an end to all people, for the earth is filled with violence because of them. I am surely going to destroy both them and the earth. Everything on earth will perish. Every kind of creature that moves along the ground will come to you to be kept alive. Not a local flood -- not just the animals in the area.

Why is it that you can bend the word of God to your will some of the time, but not all of the time?
You realize that English is not the original language of that, or any, part of the Bible, right?
Old 03-15-06, 11:41 PM
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Ark my ass. Looks more like a frozen humpback.
Old 03-15-06, 11:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Numanoid
You realize that English is not the original language of that, or any, part of the Bible, right?
So thus the Bible cannot be taken as literal truth, right? Any and all of it is open to interpretation.
Old 03-15-06, 11:54 PM
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NO way that is Noah's ark. That is clearly the boat that Utnapishtim build to survive the flood sent by the god Enlil to wipe out humanity.
Old 03-15-06, 11:54 PM
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[Michael Stivic]It's fairy tale![/Michael Stivic]

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