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question for Born Again Christians

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question for Born Again Christians

Old 01-03-06, 02:45 PM
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question for Born Again Christians

Is believing in creationism a part of being a born again Christian? Is ID not allowed at all?
Old 01-03-06, 02:48 PM
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What's ID?
Old 01-03-06, 02:49 PM
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I think it's a personal thing.

I believe in the story of creation, but I also believe in evolution. I just believe that anything that has evolved has done so with God's hand.

My husband doesn't believe in evolution at all.

Being born again usually does entail believing in the bible, yes. Not sure how one could reconcile that Jesus is his/her savior without believing in the bible. He was the fulfillment of the prophecies foretold in the OT.


Last edited by mosquitobite; 01-03-06 at 02:52 PM.
Old 01-03-06, 02:54 PM
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If you believe in evolution doesn't that contradict the literal words of the Bible found in the story of creation?
Old 01-03-06, 02:58 PM
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I'm serious here. What's ID?
Old 01-03-06, 02:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Kittydreamer
I'm serious here. What's ID?
Intelligent Design
Old 01-03-06, 03:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Gallant Pig
If you believe in evolution doesn't that contradict the literal words of the Bible found in the story of creation?
Not to me it doesn't.

I don't believe humans came from apes if that's what you mean. There's no proof of that yet either.

If you don't believe in evolution though, how does one reconcile different races of people?
Old 01-03-06, 03:05 PM
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Originally Posted by mosquitobite
If you don't believe in evolution though, how does one reconcile different races of people?
Mark of Cain?
Old 01-03-06, 03:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Groucho
Mark of Cain?
I don't like Serious Groucho.
Old 01-03-06, 03:08 PM
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Well you're obviously getting at the heart of why so many Christians believe so strongly in creationism and reject anything to do with evolution.

I believe in the literal word of God. I believe that God created everything. I do not believe in six literal days however. I believe that the Creation story serves two valuable purposes: A) It sets up that God created the universe in a way that people of the time could understand, and B) sets the foundation for a 7 day week, with one day devoted to rest and worshipping God.

I have no problem reconciling God and Evolution. Imagining the finger of God reaching out and exploding the universe into existence ala the Big Bang isn't difficult to do. I believe God guided evolution but I'm somewhat on the fence as to whether humans evolved from apes, or if God just created us like in the bible.

Personally I feel that God would not attempt to deceive us by planting false information to test our faith. Humans, as a result of our sin nature, are separated from God and are already set up to disbelieve in him, without God having to trick us to provide more evidence to the contrary. I don't believe that Satan has been creating things either so the fossil, geologic and biological evidence to the contrary must have been put their by God, or are a result of the universe he created.

What I tell most people who ask is that it ultimately doesn't matter all that much. Are you going to go to hell because you believe in evolution, even if it's wrong? Of course not. The only way to be saved is by accepting Jesus as your Lord and saviour. That one step is all you need and is the real "important question," not creation vs. evolution.
Old 01-03-06, 03:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Groucho
Mark of Cain?
So which race is that?
Old 01-03-06, 03:09 PM
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I was a born-again Bando for a while. It didn't take.
Old 01-03-06, 03:10 PM
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Well said Mordred!
Old 01-03-06, 03:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Bandoman
I don't like Serious Groucho.
Serious Groucho should be banned.
Originally Posted by Kittydreamer
I'm serious here.
Same goes for you.
Old 01-03-06, 03:12 PM
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I'm not sure. Over the last week my inlaws showed me these videos that scientifically prove that creationism occurred. They mainly used a bunch of numbers and physics and was over most people's heads. They are devote born agains, and I realized it must be a tenant of the faith, at least their sect (Calvary). I didn't think anyone really literally believed in creationism anymore so this surprised me. Most of the questions I asked were answered with "the flood from Noah did it". Dinosaurs? Flood. Continental drift? Flood. Cavemen? Flood. The main argument was that carbon dating is completely flawed, if we use Helium dating instead, it categorically proves the Earth is only a few thousand years old. They were really set in their ways so I didn't challenge them too hard.

They also believe that Harry Potter is evil and from the devil. Yet for some reason Lord of the Rings and Narnia are fine (even though they use Magic and Spells) because the authors are devote Christians. They also let their kids dress up Power Rangers, Superman and other stuff like that even though they believe Halloween is Evil and from the Devil. Kinda weird....
Old 01-03-06, 03:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Mordred
Well you're obviously getting at the heart of why so many Christians believe so strongly in creationism and reject anything to do with evolution.

I believe in the literal word of God. I believe that God created everything. I do not believe in six literal days however. I believe that the Creation story serves two valuable purposes: A) It sets up that God created the universe in a way that people of the time could understand, and B) sets the foundation for a 7 day week, with one day devoted to rest and worshipping God.

I have no problem reconciling God and Evolution. Imagining the finger of God reaching out and exploding the universe into existence ala the Big Bang isn't difficult to do. I believe God guided evolution but I'm somewhat on the fence as to whether humans evolved from apes, or if God just created us like in the bible.

Personally I feel that God would not attempt to deceive us by planting false information to test our faith. Humans, as a result of our sin nature, are separated from God and are already set up to disbelieve in him, without God having to trick us to provide more evidence to the contrary. I don't believe that Satan has been creating things either so the fossil, geologic and biological evidence to the contrary must have been put their by God, or are a result of the universe he created.

What I tell most people who ask is that it ultimately doesn't matter all that much. Are you going to go to hell because you believe in evolution, even if it's wrong? Of course not. The only way to be saved is by accepting Jesus as your Lord and saviour. That one step is all you need and is the real "important question," not creation vs. evolution.
I definitely agree with all of this and told him basically the same thing. How God made the world and man ultimately doesn't matter as long as you believe He's the source.

I guess my main problem with the religion is I believe that if you are a good person, you do good unto others and treat them well, you act the way Jesus teaches you to and believe there is some higher power, that a loving and just God will accept you into heaven. I guess that's not Biblically correct, but neither is taking the book of Genesis and saying that it's all a metaphor right?
Old 01-03-06, 03:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Gallant Pig
They also believe that Harry Potter is evil and from the devil. Yet for some reason Lord of the Rings and Narnia are fine (even though they use Magic and Spells) because the authors are devote Christians. They also let their kids dress up Power Rangers, Superman and other stuff like that even though they believe Halloween is Evil and from the Devil. Kinda weird....
My inlaws don't drink, go to see movies, or dance. Some of them (distant inlaws mind you) don't even play cards because they are evil. They don't believe in creationism either.
Old 01-03-06, 03:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Gallant Pig
Is believing in creationism a part of being a born again Christian? Is ID not allowed at all?
All right, I don't understand the question. ID is just cloaked creationism. What are you asking?
Old 01-03-06, 03:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Gallant Pig
Over the last week my inlaws showed me these videos that scientifically prove that creationism occurred.
Well, there you go. What more do you want?
Old 01-03-06, 03:25 PM
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Originally Posted by OldDude
All right, I don't understand the question. ID is just cloaked creationism. What are you asking?
Maybe I don't understand ID 100%. I thought it recognized the earth is very old and slowly evolved, but the evolution was guided by God's Will and Design instead of being totally random. Creationism thinks everything was cooked up in 7 days just like in Genesis and the earth is literally 6,000 years old.
Old 01-03-06, 03:26 PM
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Originally Posted by mosquitobite
I don't believe humans came from apes if that's what you mean. There's no proof of that yet either.
Actually, the theory is that we shared a common ancestor, but both humans and apes have evolved since that common ancestor (humans probably more so)
Old 01-03-06, 03:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Gallant Pig
I didn't think anyone really literally believed in creationism anymore so this surprised me. Most of the questions I asked were answered with "the flood from Noah did it". Dinosaurs? Flood. Continental drift? Flood. Cavemen? Flood. The main argument was that carbon dating is completely flawed, if we use Helium dating instead, it categorically proves the Earth is only a few thousand years old. They were really set in their ways so I didn't challenge them too hard.
I know too many people like this. My favorite is about the sun and moon being created on Creation Day 5 while plants, etc. were made on day 4. That isn't what Genesis says, but that is how they take it. My pastor said that it had to be that way because the plants could survive without the sun for more than a day. I told him that without the gravity of the sun, the heat of the sun, etc. that they could last even a second. Every bit of liquid would be frozen solid, etc. That is when they turn to God keeping things warm enough, even though there is nothing in the Bible about it.
Old 01-03-06, 03:27 PM
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Originally Posted by OldDude
ID is just cloaked creationism.
And with just five words, OldDude ensured the thread would last for several pages before finally being closed due to personal attacks.
Old 01-03-06, 03:27 PM
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Originally Posted by mosquitobite
I don't believe humans came from apes if that's what you mean. There's no proof of that yet either.
And you shouldn't, since no one thinks humans evolved from [modern] apes. Humans and apes both evolved from a shared common ancestor.
Old 01-03-06, 03:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Gallant Pig
Maybe I don't understand ID 100%. I thought it recognized the earth is very old and slowly evolved, but the evolution was guided by God's Will and Design instead of being totally random. Creationism thinks everything was cooked up in 7 days just like in Genesis and the earth is literally 6,000 years old.
ID has stayed out of the "age of the earth" to keep from irritating Young Earth people. A huge mistake, imo.

Creationism doesn't think everything was made in 7 days. Young Earth Creationism does.

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