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how does rebuying work in poker tourneys?

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how does rebuying work in poker tourneys?

Old 12-19-05, 05:54 PM
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how does rebuying work in poker tourneys?

can someone explain how this works and what is the best strategy to use with rebuying? and what is a freeze out tourney?
Old 12-19-05, 06:27 PM
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also as a new player to live poker, should i stick only to limit games and avoid nolimit games?
Old 12-19-05, 06:31 PM
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some tourneys allow rebuys or add-ons, some do not. the ones that do not are called "freezeouts"

Rebuy: if you bust out you can buy more chips for a set price. sometimes this is the same as the entry fee, sometimes less. sometimes you even get a different amount of chips. ask about format if it is not printed somewhere. rebuys are normally limited to the first round or two or the first hour or something similar.

Add-on: an add-on is just that. after a fixed amount of time, you pay some fixed amount (maybe the same as your buyin, maybe less) and you get additional chips as specified pre tournament.

and i would probably stick to limit games until you feel comfortable. you will be able to play longer without busting out!
Old 12-19-05, 06:35 PM
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so if you play a tourney is it always best to rebuy (assuming you can still do so)? seems like a good idea to do.
Old 12-19-05, 06:40 PM
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everyone has their own strategy. some people plan to rebuy many times. some try not to rebuy. just plan what you want to do and play accordingly. (ie, realize that some players will go all in with anything knowing they can rebuy if they bust)
Old 12-19-05, 07:05 PM
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I *hate* rebuy tournaments. I think it's the dumbest idea in poker.
Old 12-19-05, 07:13 PM
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you're just a cheap bastard.

it's nice when you get at a table with someone who will call any all in because he can rebuy.

it essentially allows you to take the weak players $ multiple times.
Old 12-19-05, 08:22 PM
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I've seen the payout double before due to add-ons/re-buys. I'm not a fan of them. We tried it at a home game and I won (without rebuying, along with 2nd and 3rd place) but still didn't like having to put everyone else out twice.
Old 12-19-05, 08:34 PM
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Originally Posted by moorehed
Rebuy: if you bust out you can buy more chips for a set price. sometimes this is the same as the entry fee, sometimes less. sometimes you even get a different amount of chips.
That is partially incorrect. You can often rebuy any time you are at or below that starting chip stack. If the tournament is like this, you are costing yourself equity by not immediately re-buying when the tournament starts.

At Party, there is a bug that allows you to rebuy if you go all-in, even if your chip stack at the start of the hand was higher than the maximum amount that you can re-buy with. For that reason, I much prefer Stars to Party for rebuy tournaments.

If you go into a rebuy tournament without being willing to rebuy/add-on, you might as well throw your money away.
Old 12-19-05, 09:17 PM
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yeah it all just depends on the tourney. here's one starting in a few mins at martins

Unlimited rebuys (500 chips for 1) until the start of level 9.You can make as many rebuys as you want at the same time regardless of your chip count. One rebuy gives you 500 in chips. Five rebuys will give you 2,500 in chips.
Old 12-19-05, 10:14 PM
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Originally Posted by atari2600
so if you play a tourney is it always best to rebuy (assuming you can still do so)? seems like a good idea to do.
Well there is really no point to rebuy if the blinds have gotten to big and you can only play a couple of hands. Most home games that I play, there are buyins. You can rebuy once that person is out of chips, for the same amout that was first givin.

The way I see it, it just makes the pot bigger. Most of the time if someone rebuys they still end up loosing. Sometimes that person will end up winning the tournament.
Old 12-19-05, 10:28 PM
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Originally Posted by atari2600
also as a new player to live poker, should i stick only to limit games and avoid nolimit games?
Where do you plan to play at?

I mainly play no limit hold'em at a few of my friends houses, a couple times a week. Buyins are are usually $10(15 in chips or $20(20 or 25 in chips). Blinds raise around 25-30 minuits. Most of my friends allow for rebuys. The ones that dont, is because there will be a second game that follows.
Old 12-20-05, 02:30 AM
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Originally Posted by Mitsurugi
Where do you plan to play at?

I mainly play no limit hold'em at a few of my friends houses, a couple times a week. Buyins are are usually $10(15 in chips or $20(20 or 25 in chips). Blinds raise around 25-30 minuits. Most of my friends allow for rebuys. The ones that dont, is because there will be a second game that follows.
im not sure. this will be my first time in real life so where do you suggest? i think i will play at 2/4...maybe at 3/6?

i already konw im gonna get screwed by people on the river but i just wanna play in person for once. after i get back im sure ill be pissed off but whatever...

id love to play no limit but i dont think im ready for that.
Old 12-20-05, 03:24 AM
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Since the point of the rebuy is to generate a bigger prize pool ...

I like the rebuy system where a rebuy gets you more chips than regular buy-in, or if the rebuy is cheaper than the buy-in for the same number of chips. If $20 buy-in gets you 1500 chips, then a $20 rebuy will get you 2000 chips (or $15 rebuy will get your 1500 chips). This encourages rebuys. Same idea for add-ons. The daily tourneys at TI in Vegas worked this way.

Yup, the prize pool can easily double with rebuys.
Old 12-20-05, 03:27 AM
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Originally Posted by atari2600
also as a new player to live poker, should i stick only to limit games and avoid nolimit games?
Depends on what you are more comfortable with or better at. If all you play is NL cash games, then there's no point in playing limit tournaments.

Tournaments and cash games are different beasts, but limit and no-limit are much more different.
Old 12-20-05, 08:52 AM
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related question: what is to prevent a person from buying in for say, $10000 at a NL table and just bullying everyone else around?
Old 12-20-05, 10:41 AM
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Originally Posted by atari2600
related question: what is to prevent a person from buying in for say, $10000 at a NL table and just bullying everyone else around?
Many of the No Limit games have a capped buy-in, sorry defeats the No Limit name but casinos do it so thier customers don't go broke right away.

The $1/$2 No Limit game is normally capped at $200 max buy-in and the $2/$5 is capped at $500 max buy-in, there are some places that don't cap it and huge stacks do have an advantage to bully people.
Old 12-28-05, 08:14 PM
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Originally Posted by moorehed
yeah it all just depends on the tourney. here's one starting in a few mins at martins

Unlimited rebuys (500 chips for 1) until the start of level 9.You can make as many rebuys as you want at the same time regardless of your chip count. One rebuy gives you 500 in chips. Five rebuys will give you 2,500 in chips.
Wait, so you get 500 chips for 1, and can buy as many as you like at any point? What's the initial buy-in for the tourney? Say it's 10, and someone is sitting with 150 or so in their account. Why would that person not immediately dump in 140 for 70,000 chips, bully everybody, and eventually walk away with the first place profit? That seems like a major "biggest bankroll coming in has the advantage" type of set-up.

-JP
Old 12-28-05, 09:41 PM
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buyin was also 1E. the reason you wouldln't do that is because if you rebought for 140E you would basically need to finish in first to break even.
Old 12-28-05, 11:03 PM
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Originally Posted by moorehed
buyin was also 1E. the reason you wouldln't do that is because if you rebought for 140E you would basically need to finish in first to break even.
Yeah, but with that massive of a chip advantage, anybody with a basic understanding of poker would be guaranteed a first place finish. I mean, I'd think that it would take an absolute idiot to blow a 100 to 1 chip lead...and by the time anybody got close (by knocking out other players and adding to their stack that way), you'd have done the same and would still hold a massive advantage. That's the point I'm getting at. It seems like an unbelievably large re-buy at the start would give you such an advantage that you'd practically be guaranteed first place, and a profit.

The only way that's not the case is when your re-buys make up a larger percentage of the prize pool than first place pays. However, if there are 250 people in the tourney, and first pays out 50% of the prize pool, a first place finish would net you 200 (on a 150 investment), and that's assuming that nobody else re-buys to pump the prize pool up even more, which won't be the case.

I just don't see how a re-buy system like that could possibly work, short of an extremely small tournament with an equally small initial prize pool (in which case, re-buys likely wouldn't be necessary or advantageous anyway).

-JP
Old 12-28-05, 11:34 PM
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okay so say you rebuy 150 times, win first place of 140E... you profited 10E... what is the point? and what if someone else sees your huge stack, and decides to buyin for 200E... ? i just don't see what the point would be. why don't you enter the next one they have and report your results here? I think they have it every day, maybe more than once.
Old 12-29-05, 01:00 AM
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Originally Posted by NatrlBornThrllr
Yeah, but with that massive of a chip advantage, anybody with a basic understanding of poker would be guaranteed a first place finish.
Hardly. Suppose you buy in for $140. There are 150 players. You've got fewer than half the chips, assuming everybody buys only at the minimum.

Now assume there's another guy who bought $30 in chips. And a couple more at $20. And a dozen at $10. And a smattering of various rebuy amounts from there on down.

You'd start off nicely, but there's hardly a gaurentee. Other players are going to accumulate chips - they're not all being bullied at your table.
Old 12-29-05, 04:53 AM
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Originally Posted by moorehed
okay so say you rebuy 150 times, win first place of 140E... you profited 10E... what is the point?
The point is that if the first place prize is more than the arbitrary number you seemingly came up with at random, then you profit more than 10. Like I said in my last post, if you took the time to read it: if there are enough people in the tournament, the percentage first place takes could easily outweigh the percentage you put into the prize pool (and, perhaps, result in a profit that would be more in line with your standards). You'd have to weigh the cost to potential profit ratio and see if it's worth your while, but I can think of a number of situations where it very easily could be.

why don't you enter the next one they have and report your results here? I think they have it every day, maybe more than once.
Because I'm broke and lazy, don't have an account with the poker room in question, and this entire discussion has been based on theoretical and hypothetical, for starters.

Originally Posted by mgbfan
Hardly. Suppose you buy in for $140. There are 150 players. You've got fewer than half the chips, assuming everybody buys only at the minimum.

Now assume there's another guy who bought $30 in chips. And a couple more at $20. And a dozen at $10. And a smattering of various rebuy amounts from there on down.

You'd start off nicely, but there's hardly a gaurentee. Other players are going to accumulate chips - they're not all being bullied at your table.
Again, like the poster above you, you're touching on something that I already addressed in my last post. Let's go with the scenario you brought up. Say we buy in for the 150, and there's another guy who bought in for 30. We still start the tournament with a 5:1 advantage over our closest competitor (75,000 in chips to 15,000 in chips) and a generous 15:1 over the average competitor. You say that others will be accumulating chips, but so will we...and likely at a faster rate than any other given player, what with the ability to use the power of our big stack and all.

I purposely made an overstatement with the word "guarantee," but I don't believe that it's far from it. I give myself good odds sitting down 1:1 with every player, or else I wouldn't be playing the game. If you start me off in an average tournament with a 5:1 chip lead over second place (and a ~15:1 advantage over the average chipstack), I don't see how I could be beat. I'd be holding a gun in a knife fight.

-JP
Old 12-29-05, 08:23 AM
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Originally Posted by NatrlBornThrllr
The point is that if the first place prize is more than the arbitrary number you seemingly came up with at random, then you profit more than 10. Like I said in my last post, if you took the time to read it:
oh yeah, you're right, i didn't even read your post

and the number wasn't arbitrary. you had proposed buying in for 140 (i was off by ten whoops).

the bottom line is, no matter how much you buy in for, it doesn't "guarantee" you anything. and even if it did, your profit margin wouldn't be great, and let's not forget you have to invest a few hours in this tournament.

but again, i think you should try out your strategy. until you are willing to put your money where our mouth is at, i can't put a whole lot of respect into your opinion on this one. it's like the guy who alwas has a hot stock you should buy, but never seems to have any $$$.
Old 12-29-05, 02:10 PM
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Originally Posted by NatrlBornThrllr
Yeah, but with that massive of a chip advantage, anybody with a basic understanding of poker would be guaranteed a first place finish. I mean, I'd think that it would take an absolute idiot to blow a 100 to 1 chip lead...

I just don't see how a re-buy system like that could possibly work, short of an extremely small tournament with an equally small initial prize pool (in which case, re-buys likely wouldn't be necessary or advantageous anyway).
You're making a couple huge (bad) assumptions.

1. So you're thinking one person will buy in for 50,000 chips while everybody buys in for 500 chips (your 100-to-1 claim). Right. Especially with the flat payout structure seen just about everywhere, no one would buy in for that many chips. But let's say that you did. Say there were 250 people who all paid $10 and you paid $1000 (again maintaing your 100-to-1 ratio). Total prize pool would be $3500. With 251 people, you generally get 27-28% of the prize pool, or $945-$980. Party Poker, Poker Stars, and most other poker sites use that flat payout structure, under which you won't even get your money back.

2. There is no guarantee. Yes, I read the part where you wrote that you were exaggerating for effect, but really, it's not even close to a guarantee. Let's go down from your ridiculous 100-to-1 chip lead to a more reasonable 10-to-1 chip lead at the start of the tournament. Even if you start with 5000 chips and everyone else starts with 500 chips, I don't think you can win 10% of the time.

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