Penn Gillette: There Is No God (NPR)
11-21-05, 07:56 PM
#1
Penn Gillette: There Is No God (NPR)
I heard this essay on NPR today, and I thought it was really thought-provoking -- atheism as a positive affirmation. Read below or give it a listen and tell me what you think.
I believe that there is no God. I'm beyond Atheism. Atheism is not believing in God. Not believing in God is easy -- you can't prove a negative, so there's no work to do. You can't prove that there isn't an elephant inside the trunk of my car. You sure? How about now? Maybe he was just hiding before. Check again. Did I mention that my personal heartfelt definition of the word "elephant" includes mystery, order, goodness, love and a spare tire?
So, anyone with a love for truth outside of herself has to start with no belief in God and then look for evidence of God. She needs to search for some objective evidence of a supernatural power. All the people I write e-mails to often are still stuck at this searching stage. The Atheism part is easy.
But, this "This I Believe" thing seems to demand something more personal, some leap of faith that helps one see life's big picture, some rules to live by. So, I'm saying, "This I believe: I believe there is no God."
Having taken that step, it informs every moment of my life. I'm not greedy. I have love, blue skies, rainbows and Hallmark cards, and that has to be enough. It has to be enough, but it's everything in the world and everything in the world is plenty for me. It seems just rude to beg the invisible for more. Just the love of my family that raised me and the family I'm raising now is enough that I don't need heaven. I won the huge genetic lottery and I get joy every day.
Believing there's no God means I can't really be forgiven except by kindness and faulty memories. That's good; it makes me want to be more thoughtful. I have to try to treat people right the first time around.
Believing there's no God stops me from being solipsistic. I can read ideas from all different people from all different cultures. Without God, we can agree on reality, and I can keep learning where I'm wrong. We can all keep adjusting, so we can really communicate. I don't travel in circles where people say, "I have faith, I believe this in my heart and nothing you can say or do can shake my faith." That's just a long-winded religious way to say, "shut up," or another two words that the FCC likes less. But all obscenity is less insulting than, "How I was brought up and my imaginary friend means more to me than anything you can ever say or do." So, believing there is no God lets me be proven wrong and that's always fun. It means I'm learning something.
Believing there is no God means the suffering I've seen in my family, and indeed all the suffering in the world, isn't caused by an omniscient, omnipresent, omnipotent force that isn't bothered to help or is just testing us, but rather something we all may be able to help others with in the future. No God means the possibility of less suffering in the future.
Believing there is no God gives me more room for belief in family, people, love, truth, beauty, sex, Jell-o and all the other things I can prove and that make this life the best life I will ever have.
So, anyone with a love for truth outside of herself has to start with no belief in God and then look for evidence of God. She needs to search for some objective evidence of a supernatural power. All the people I write e-mails to often are still stuck at this searching stage. The Atheism part is easy.
But, this "This I Believe" thing seems to demand something more personal, some leap of faith that helps one see life's big picture, some rules to live by. So, I'm saying, "This I believe: I believe there is no God."
Having taken that step, it informs every moment of my life. I'm not greedy. I have love, blue skies, rainbows and Hallmark cards, and that has to be enough. It has to be enough, but it's everything in the world and everything in the world is plenty for me. It seems just rude to beg the invisible for more. Just the love of my family that raised me and the family I'm raising now is enough that I don't need heaven. I won the huge genetic lottery and I get joy every day.
Believing there's no God means I can't really be forgiven except by kindness and faulty memories. That's good; it makes me want to be more thoughtful. I have to try to treat people right the first time around.
Believing there's no God stops me from being solipsistic. I can read ideas from all different people from all different cultures. Without God, we can agree on reality, and I can keep learning where I'm wrong. We can all keep adjusting, so we can really communicate. I don't travel in circles where people say, "I have faith, I believe this in my heart and nothing you can say or do can shake my faith." That's just a long-winded religious way to say, "shut up," or another two words that the FCC likes less. But all obscenity is less insulting than, "How I was brought up and my imaginary friend means more to me than anything you can ever say or do." So, believing there is no God lets me be proven wrong and that's always fun. It means I'm learning something.
Believing there is no God means the suffering I've seen in my family, and indeed all the suffering in the world, isn't caused by an omniscient, omnipresent, omnipotent force that isn't bothered to help or is just testing us, but rather something we all may be able to help others with in the future. No God means the possibility of less suffering in the future.
Believing there is no God gives me more room for belief in family, people, love, truth, beauty, sex, Jell-o and all the other things I can prove and that make this life the best life I will ever have.
11-21-05, 08:06 PM
#3
DVD Talk Legend
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Working for Gizmonic Institute
Posts: 10,428
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like
on
1 Post
Originally Posted by Penn Gillette
But, this "This I Believe" thing seems to demand something more personal, some leap of faith that helps one see life's big picture, some rules to live by. So, I'm saying, "This I believe: I believe there is no God."
11-21-05, 08:22 PM
#7
DVD Talk Hero
Join Date: May 1999
Location: Atlanta, GA
Posts: 35,881
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Jillette
Eh ... Believing in a non-specific higher power? Makes sense to me. Certainly possible. Not believing in a higher power? Seems logical. Not much proof. Believing in a higher power/afterlife and trying to help others get there? I can see that, with many limits. Frequent belittling evangelical non-belief? Not a fan. After a while, it's just obnoxious.
I still love Penn, though.
das
Eh ... Believing in a non-specific higher power? Makes sense to me. Certainly possible. Not believing in a higher power? Seems logical. Not much proof. Believing in a higher power/afterlife and trying to help others get there? I can see that, with many limits. Frequent belittling evangelical non-belief? Not a fan. After a while, it's just obnoxious.
I still love Penn, though.
das
11-21-05, 08:37 PM
#9
DVD Talk Limited Edition
Couldn't agree more with him.
11-21-05, 09:07 PM
#10
Many times the argument seems to be that agnostics and atheists are by definiton amoral -- that without the guiding paths of faith and religion, our society would collapse into sinful degradation. I like this argument -- that not believing in God means that your only forgiveness comes from the other people in your life.
11-21-05, 09:10 PM
#11
DVD Talk Hero
Originally Posted by Silt
Or read The Fellowship of the Ring if he doesn't believe in hobbits! Both are works of fiction.
11-21-05, 09:56 PM
#14
DVD Talk God
Originally Posted by al_bundy
than why do archeologists and historians use The Bible as a base in their research?
11-21-05, 09:59 PM
#15
I don't travel in circles where people say, "I have faith, I believe this in my heart and nothing you can say or do can shake my faith." That's just a long-winded religious way to say, "shut up," or another two words that the FCC likes less.
I'm not greedy. I have love, blue skies, rainbows and Hallmark cards, and that has to be enough. It has to be enough, but it's everything in the world and everything in the world is plenty for me.
11-21-05, 10:17 PM
#16
DVD Talk Legend
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Cape Ann, Massachusetts
Posts: 10,928
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like
on
1 Post
"I have love, blue skies, rainbows and Hallmark cards, and that has to be enough. It has to be enough, but it's everything in the world and everything in the world is plenty for me."
Well, if there's anything that Jews, Christians, Muslims, Hindus, Buddhists and most other religions have agreed on it's that spiritual growth does not result from focusing on these things. But I guess if you don't believe man has a spiritual side, then there's no need to bother respecting or familiarizing yourself with the traditions that brilliant, sincere people have devoted lifetimes to throughout the world and down through the centuries---you can just casually dismiss them all.
Well, if there's anything that Jews, Christians, Muslims, Hindus, Buddhists and most other religions have agreed on it's that spiritual growth does not result from focusing on these things. But I guess if you don't believe man has a spiritual side, then there's no need to bother respecting or familiarizing yourself with the traditions that brilliant, sincere people have devoted lifetimes to throughout the world and down through the centuries---you can just casually dismiss them all.
11-21-05, 10:42 PM
#17
DVD Talk Ultimate Edition
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Lounging on the beach in L.A., frappucino in hand...
Posts: 4,269
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by Deftones
Because there is both fact and fiction. It's a collection of stories passed down through many hundreds of generations. There's bound to be some truth, but on the whole it's pretty hard to back up most of what's in there.
Wow, this paragraph has SO many inaccuracies in it, I don't know where to begin... but fortunately, I doubt anyone's looking to you for guidance. 
Interesting post, Mojo. I don't agree with much of it, but it is pretty bold of him.
Edited to add, I'm laughing at the way Deftones's opinions are stated, not the opinions of the OP. Deftones, if you look into apologetics, you'll find that there's a lot more "back up" out there... doesn't mean you have to believe, but it's far from the "stories 'round the campfire" that you've made it sound like.
Last edited by shoppingbear; 11-21-05 at 10:53 PM.
11-21-05, 11:17 PM
#18
DVD Talk God
Originally Posted by NCMojo
Many times the argument seems to be that agnostics and atheists are by definiton amoral -- that without the guiding paths of faith and religion, our society would collapse into sinful degradation. I like this argument -- that not believing in God means that your only forgiveness comes from the other people in your life.
11-21-05, 11:36 PM
#19
DVD Talk Hero
Originally Posted by kvrdave
He has certainly taken a different spin on it. I would maintain that you don't have to be religious to have morals, however, with no religion, no God, etc., ones idea of morality is subjective and relative...
The "freedom principle" (which is my basis for morality) that people have the right to live as they want as long as they do not interfere with the identical right of others to live as they want is neither subjective nor relative. I believe it is an objective standard because it is the only one under which the rights of all people are the same. Thus I believe that initiating force or fraud or the threat of force against others is objectively wrong and it is wrong regardless of the time period or culture.
Mine may not be the same absolute morality as Christians or other theists but it is an absolute morality.
11-21-05, 11:43 PM
#20
Originally Posted by shoppingbear
Wow, this paragraph has SO many inaccuracies in it, I don't know where to begin... but fortunately, I doubt anyone's looking to you for guidance. Edited to add, I'm laughing at the way Deftones's opinions are stated, not the opinions of the OP. Deftones, if you look into apologetics, you'll find that there's a lot more "back up" out there... doesn't mean you have to believe, but it's far from the "stories 'round the campfire" that you've made it sound like.
11-21-05, 11:48 PM
#21
DVD Talk God
Originally Posted by movielib
Not necessarily. I admit many atheists believe the idea of "moral absolutes" is wrong. They may think that morality is culturally based and what some cultures consider wrong is OK in other cultures which do not hold the same beliefs. I do not subscribe to any of that.
The "freedom principle" (which is my basis for morality) that people have the right to live as they want as long as they do not interfere with the identical right of others to live as they want is neither subjective nor relative. I believe it is an objective standard because it is the only one under which the rights of all people are the same. Thus I believe that initiating force or fraud or the threat of force against others is objectively wrong and it is wrong regardless of the time period or culture.
Mine may not be the same absolute morality as Christians or other theists but it is an absolute morality.
The "freedom principle" (which is my basis for morality) that people have the right to live as they want as long as they do not interfere with the identical right of others to live as they want is neither subjective nor relative. I believe it is an objective standard because it is the only one under which the rights of all people are the same. Thus I believe that initiating force or fraud or the threat of force against others is objectively wrong and it is wrong regardless of the time period or culture.
Mine may not be the same absolute morality as Christians or other theists but it is an absolute morality.
11-21-05, 11:49 PM
#22
DVD Talk Ultimate Edition
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Lounging on the beach in L.A., frappucino in hand...
Posts: 4,269
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by DVD Polizei
Where consistency and logic lose ground in the Bible (or any Holy Book), faith most assuredly makes up for it, don't it.
Consistency and logic are present in the Bible, and I would argue that everyone has faith: some just have it in their ownselves, considering their own reasoning higher than anything else. There is no proof that I could offer that would satisfy that kind of "faith". Besides, that's not really the purpose of threads around here, is it? It's too hard to have a continuous, linear, logical discussion about ANYthing!
11-22-05, 12:03 AM
#23
DVD Talk Legend
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: Second Star on the right, and straight on til' morning...
Posts: 14,805
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes
on
2 Posts
Let's all play "Imagine" in the background.
Whereas I agree with the principle - i.e. 'believing in no God' can make me a better person because I'll live each day as it comes as best I can, it's still a simple way out from trying to figure out how the universe works (or doesn't, given one's belief.)
Whereas I agree with the principle - i.e. 'believing in no God' can make me a better person because I'll live each day as it comes as best I can, it's still a simple way out from trying to figure out how the universe works (or doesn't, given one's belief.)
11-22-05, 12:08 AM
#24
DVD Talk Hero
Originally Posted by kvrdave
So do unto others as you would have them do unto you?
Last edited by movielib; 11-22-05 at 12:11 AM.
