Penn Gillette: There Is No God (NPR)
11-22-05, 01:21 PM
#176
DVD Talk Legend
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 13,605
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by Gil Jawetz
Ah, the 50,000,000 Elvis Fans Can't Be Wrong theory!
I absolutely think you should be able to believe whatever you want, religion or no, but I don't think that that's a good reason that you gave. If I got a bunch of people to spend two thousand years travelling around the world holding people's heads under water until they believed that squirrels are psychic, that wouldn't be a good reason for someone else to hold up as proof that it's true. The best reason that you can give is that you, in your heart, believe it to be true, independent of what anyone else thinks. If every person on earth suddenly renounced the bible all at once but you still felt that it was true, then you'd be a real believer.
I absolutely think you should be able to believe whatever you want, religion or no, but I don't think that that's a good reason that you gave. If I got a bunch of people to spend two thousand years travelling around the world holding people's heads under water until they believed that squirrels are psychic, that wouldn't be a good reason for someone else to hold up as proof that it's true. The best reason that you can give is that you, in your heart, believe it to be true, independent of what anyone else thinks. If every person on earth suddenly renounced the bible all at once but you still felt that it was true, then you'd be a real believer.
11-22-05, 01:21 PM
#177
DVD Talk Hall of Fame
Originally Posted by MJKTool
Ask me if I give a shit!
gosuckadickbye
gosuckadickbye
11-22-05, 01:22 PM
#178
DVD Talk Hall of Fame
Fascinating how quickly these things can go downhill. I agree 100% with das Monkey's previous statements. It's a shame some atheists/agnostics can't realize there are intelligent religious people and that some religious people can't realize there are morally good people who don't share their beliefs. Seems like most religious threads on here start out fairly interesting and then just quickly go to hell. Obvious pun intended.
11-22-05, 01:23 PM
#182
DVD Talk Legend
Originally Posted by maxfisher
Fascinating how quickly these things can go downhill. I agree 100% with das Monkey's previous statements. It's a shame some atheists/agnostics can't realize there are intelligent religious people and that some religious people can't realize there are morally good people who don't share their beliefs. Seems like most religious threads on here start out fairly interesting and then just quickly go to hell. Obvious pun intended.
11-22-05, 01:26 PM
#189
DVD Talk Platinum Edition
Join Date: Mar 2000
Posts: 3,835
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by Rockmjd23
I don't think this thread went to hell because of religious differences
11-22-05, 01:26 PM
#190
DVD Talk Hero
Originally Posted by mrpayroll
I know it's hard not to judge Christianity by the actions of it's so-called believers, but you need to judge Christianity by Jesus Christ himself.
He calls all Christians to be 'servants' to others, he famously said "He who is without sin cast the first stone", and he also said "How can you judge others who have a speck in their eyes, when you have a log in yours?".
So yes, all of those things that you have mentioned have been done in the name of Christianity, but they were/are all wrong and Jesus Christ himself would have spoke out against them.
Chris
He calls all Christians to be 'servants' to others, he famously said "He who is without sin cast the first stone", and he also said "How can you judge others who have a speck in their eyes, when you have a log in yours?".
So yes, all of those things that you have mentioned have been done in the name of Christianity, but they were/are all wrong and Jesus Christ himself would have spoke out against them.
Chris
But OK, I'll judge Christianity by Jesus. Jesus said all who didn't believe in him would be sent to an everlasing place of torment. I'm sorry, I will never be able to get past that.
Last edited by movielib; 11-22-05 at 01:36 PM.
11-22-05, 01:26 PM
#192
DVD Talk Legend
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Illinoyze
Posts: 10,513
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by shoppingbear
Wow, this paragraph has SO many inaccuracies in it, I don't know where to begin... but fortunately, I doubt anyone's looking to you for guidance. Interesting post, Mojo. I don't agree with much of it, but it is pretty bold of him.
Edited to add, I'm laughing at the way Deftones's opinions are stated, not the opinions of the OP. Deftones, if you look into apologetics, you'll find that there's a lot more "back up" out there... doesn't mean you have to believe, but it's far from the "stories 'round the campfire" that you've made it sound like.
Originally Posted by shoppingbear
DVD P, I respectfully disagree. 
Consistency and logic are present in the Bible, and I would argue that everyone has faith: some just have it in their ownselves, considering their own reasoning higher than anything else. There is no proof that I could offer that would satisfy that kind of "faith".
Besides, that's not really the purpose of threads around here, is it? It's too hard to have a continuous, linear, logical discussion about ANYthing!
Consistency and logic are present in the Bible, and I would argue that everyone has faith: some just have it in their ownselves, considering their own reasoning higher than anything else. There is no proof that I could offer that would satisfy that kind of "faith". Besides, that's not really the purpose of threads around here, is it? It's too hard to have a continuous, linear, logical discussion about ANYthing!
Originally Posted by shoppingbear
OH! Hit me where it HURTS, mock the SMILEY FACES... Hopefully no one else is getting offended that I don't agree with Penn (not to mention, I generally don't put much stock in what an entertainment celebrity thinks... otherwise I'd have to listen to Tom Cruise and Madonna, just to be fair
). Almost everyone in this thread is discussing it without being derisive... at least we can count on you, Def, for that "I'm so much cooler/smarter/better than the person I disagree with" aspect, eh? EDITED because one of the guys emailed and said Deftones is offended enough to complain about me and my responses elsewhere on the 'net...
Like I said, sometimes it's hard to talk about stuff like this on a forum like this. 
Sorry to anyone else who was offended, none meant.
Originally Posted by shoppingbear
Fair enough, but I put it in quotes because I was quoting Deftones, that's all.
As it is, I might delete that post, as I've gotten emails from a couple of different people who tell me I offended Deftones, so...
As it is, I might delete that post, as I've gotten emails from a couple of different people who tell me I offended Deftones, so...
Originally Posted by shoppingbear
Honestly, I'm tempted, but it would take long posts, and long discussion, which would be frustrating if there were heaps of non-serious responses. Some like yourself seem to want a serious discussion, but from what I know of Def, he just wants a reason to make fun of someone. After thinking about it, I choose to not be that someone.
As for those who ask, How does this topic ever come up, in my experience the agnostics or athiests bring it up because they know I'm willing to discuss it (in REAL LIFE, at least.. ). I have a couple of athiests at work who honestly start debates/discussions on religion and Christianity on a regular basis. One of them says he likes the way I explain my viewpoint, and he likes the debate. Stuff like that happens to me all the time in real life.... usually on some day/evening/event where I'm hoping for nothing but light, fluffy conversation. Which is all I come to DVDTalk for, come to think of it.
As for those who ask, How does this topic ever come up, in my experience the agnostics or athiests bring it up because they know I'm willing to discuss it (in REAL LIFE, at least..
). I have a couple of athiests at work who honestly start debates/discussions on religion and Christianity on a regular basis. One of them says he likes the way I explain my viewpoint, and he likes the debate. Stuff like that happens to me all the time in real life.... usually on some day/evening/event where I'm hoping for nothing but light, fluffy conversation. Which is all I come to DVDTalk for, come to think of it.
Originally Posted by shoppingbear
OK, Das is my new hero. Das, you put it very well, and I agree completely.
Of course, that's JUST MY OPINION... you're all welcome to disagree...
Not trying to change anyone's mind...
Das, you put it very well, and I agree completely. Of course, that's JUST MY OPINION... you're all welcome to disagree...
Not trying to change anyone's mind... If there was a god he'd never have created the : key on a keyboard!
11-22-05, 01:28 PM
#197
DVD Talk Reviewer
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Formerly known as "12thmonkey"/Frankfort, IL
Posts: 7,713
Received 20 Likes
on
18 Posts
Originally Posted by uberjoe
I actually think this thread has helped bring people together, because believers, atheists, agnostics -- everybody -- can agree that MJKTool is aptly named.
11-22-05, 01:29 PM
#199
DVD Talk Legend
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: Work. Or commuting. Certainly not at home.
Posts: 17,816
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
This thread doesn't need to be locked, but the posts of a certain member need to be deleted and that certain member needs to be banned.
11-22-05, 01:29 PM
#200
DVD Talk Hall of Fame
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: I was here but I disappear
Posts: 8,407
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by Kittydreamer
I hear you there. I just can't put it into words. I'm sorry, I wish I could. I suck at this.
