Go Back  DVD Talk Forum > General Discussions > Other Talk
Reload this Page >

Penn Gillette: There Is No God (NPR)

Other Talk "Otterville"

Penn Gillette: There Is No God (NPR)

Old 11-22-05, 12:48 PM
  #126  
DVD Talk Special Edition
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: The Netherlands
Posts: 1,492
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by kvrdave
So?
That was his point. All three stories can't be literally true at the same time, hence the Bible can't be completely literally true.
Mark_vdH is offline  
Old 11-22-05, 12:48 PM
  #127  
Moderator
 
Groucho's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Salt Lake City, Utah
Posts: 71,383
Received 117 Likes on 79 Posts
Originally Posted by kvrdave
So?
That was the original point...that the Bible isn't 100% accurate.
Groucho is offline  
Old 11-22-05, 12:48 PM
  #128  
DVD Talk Hall of Fame
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Indianapolis, IN
Posts: 7,717
Received 147 Likes on 79 Posts
Originally Posted by kvrdave
How is any one of those less true than the others? I don't see where they say there is only certain people that went to the tomb, etc. I only read that each gospel reports diffently. If I were in a courtroom and 3 witnesses to an accident reported it but gave slightly different details, would that make one of them (or more) false?
I should've put a disclaimer on my post. I wasn't trying to disprove Christianity, and was just speaking to the subgroup of Christians who insist every single word of the Bible is 100% factually correct. I was raised in a church that taught that the Bible was written by God and was completely devoid of human error on any level. Their refusal to admit ANY level of human influence on the Bible was the main thing that drove me away from that particular church.

And to answer your courtroom question: if each of the 3 witnesses reported the cars being different colors, yes, I'd say one or more of them was false. They might be correct in stating who was at fault, but there would obviously be some human error involved in their testimonies, which was the only point I was going for in my previous post.
maxfisher is offline  
Old 11-22-05, 12:49 PM
  #129  
DVD Talk Hero
 
das Monkey's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 1999
Location: Atlanta, GA
Posts: 35,881
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Typical Exchange:

Religious Nut: You're going to Hell if you don't believe in God.
Average Atheist: Huh? OK, well that's your opinion. I think we have to agree to disagree.
Religious Nut: No, it's fact. You're immoral and shouldn't breed, and I'm writing my Congressman to make it law.

Typical Exchange:

Obnoxious Atheist: *Achoo*
Average Believer: God bless you.
Obnoxious Atheist: I'm too smart to believe in God, you idiot. Do you believe in flying elephants too? What if I told you the world was created by a giant unicorn? Would you worship it too? Dumbass.
Average Believer: Um ... OK.

I haven't decided which I find more annoying, moral superiority from the religious nuts or intellectual superiority from the obnoxious Atheists (both minorities in the overall groups). I wish they'd all just shut their pieholes and realize that you can be a moral person without a religious foundation, and you can be an intelligent person and still believe that a higher power was involved in our existence. Although, I have to admit there's great humor watching a moral hypocrite preach his faith to a dumbass Atheist clinging to the hope that his non-belief in God makes him smart.

*ducks*

das

The characters in this post are purely fictional. Any resemblance to characters from this thread is coincidence ... and unfortunate.
das Monkey is offline  
Old 11-22-05, 12:50 PM
  #130  
DVD Talk Legend
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: MA
Posts: 17,003
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes on 2 Posts
Originally Posted by Pistol Pete
Here is the bible belt, that is not an uncommon occurence. Heck, I have cousins that try to proselytize me every chance they get. It gets old after awhile. So I decided to stop discussing religion in general. No one's going to change their mind. It's pointless.

But then the fundamentalists start pushing for ID in science class. Why do this? Their kids get plenty of religious education at home and on Sunday. They surely won't forget it during the week!

No, the reason for ID in school is to try to push their beliefs on your kids. The fundamentalists are forcing my kids to learn their religion! This is just as bad, if not worse than the second scenario I listed above. Leave me and my kids alone!
Well, if that's a common occurance there, I feel your pain, because I would be sick of fundamentalists as much as any atheist is. Luckily, we don't have many fundamentalists around here.
Rockmjd23 is offline  
Old 11-22-05, 12:53 PM
  #131  
DVD Talk Limited Edition
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 5,511
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
I believe that the Bible is generally true. Word for word accurate and all of it literal? Absolutely not! The reason? People talk about the Bible all the time. But which one are they talking about? There are hundreds of different versions! So I think the general message has importance, but word for word accuracy? Nuh-uh....
Anubis2005X is offline  
Old 11-22-05, 12:53 PM
  #132  
Guest
 
Join Date: Jul 1999
Location: Glendale, next to L.A.
Posts: 18,486
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by movielib
The "Judeo-Christian" moral tradition never had slavery, stoning to death for petty offenses, the Inquisition, religious wars, burning heretics at the stake, pogoms or witch hunts.

I love our heritage!
I know it's hard not to judge Christianity by the actions of it's so-called believers, but you need to judge Christianity by Jesus Christ himself.

He calls all Christians to be 'servants' to others, he famously said "He who is without sin cast the first stone", and he also said "How can you judge others who have a speck in their eyes, when you have a log in yours?".

So yes, all of those things that you have mentioned have been done in the name of Christianity, but they were/are all wrong and Jesus Christ himself would have spoke out against them.

Chris
mrpayroll is offline  
Old 11-22-05, 12:54 PM
  #133  
DVD Talk Legend
 
Join Date: Jul 1999
Location: The L.A.
Posts: 18,122
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Originally Posted by das Monkey
Typical Exchange:

Religious Nut: You're going to Hell if you don't believe in God.
Average Atheist: Huh? OK, well that's your opinion. I think we have to agree to disagree.
Religious Nut: No, it's fact. You're immoral and shouldn't breed, and I'm writing my Congressman to make it law.

Typical Exchange:

Obnoxious Atheist: *Achoo*
Average Believer: God bless you.
Obnoxious Atheist: I'm too smart to believe in God, you idiot. Do you believe in flying elephants too? What if I told you the world was created by a giant unicorn? Would you worship it too? Dumbass.
Average Believer: Um ... OK.

I haven't decided which I find more annoying, moral superiority from the religious nuts or intellectual superiority from the obnoxious Atheists (both minorities in the overall groups). I wish they'd all just shut their pieholes and realize that you can be a moral person without a religious foundation, and you can be an intelligent person and still believe that a higher power was involved in our existence. Although, I have to admit there's great humor watching a moral hypocrite preach his faith to a dumbass Atheist clinging to the hope that his non-belief in God makes him smart.

*ducks*

das

The characters in this post are purely fictional. Any resemblance to characters from this thread is coincidence ... and unfortunate.
DodgingCars is offline  
Old 11-22-05, 12:54 PM
  #134  
Guest
 
Join Date: Jul 1999
Location: Glendale, next to L.A.
Posts: 18,486
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by Numanoid
No, it was not an attempt to be Groucho...I was trying to be funny.


Chris
mrpayroll is offline  
Old 11-22-05, 12:56 PM
  #135  
DVD Talk Hero
 
das Monkey's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 1999
Location: Atlanta, GA
Posts: 35,881
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Red Dog

In my personal experiences, the only people who wear religion or atheism on their sleeves are religious folks.

I'm just curious how the subject of religion even comes up so many times with atheists for a religious person to stereotype atheists.
You must be new here. Welcome to DVD Talk.

Come on. Any time someone mentions God or The Bible around here, a bunch of Atheists, flock to the thread to make snide belittling remarks about unicorns or hobbits or fairy tales and what not without any provocation. The reverse, of course, is also true, but I don't think you need convincing of that. Certainly, one is more frequent than the other, simply based on raw demographics, but there are plenty of evangelical Atheists around here just waiting to pounce. (I must admit, though, I don't see it that much in the real world. It's more of a forum thing. In my circle, people tend to keep their religion or non-religion to themselves on both sides.)

It's like Republicans and Democrats. "No, no, no. <i>They're</i> the ones who are being obnoxious and destroying the country. <i>We're</i> the nice guys."

das

Last edited by das Monkey; 11-22-05 at 01:10 PM.
das Monkey is offline  
Old 11-22-05, 12:59 PM
  #136  
Moderator
 
Groucho's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Salt Lake City, Utah
Posts: 71,383
Received 117 Likes on 79 Posts
Just like everytime somebody praises Hitler, there's always a parade of thread-crappers who have to dwell on the negative.
Groucho is offline  
Old 11-22-05, 12:59 PM
  #137  
DVD Talk Legend
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: MA
Posts: 17,003
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes on 2 Posts
Originally Posted by Anubis2005X
I believe that the Bible is generally true. Word for word accurate and all of it literal? Absolutely not! The reason? People talk about the Bible all the time. But which one are they talking about? There are hundreds of different versions! So I think the general message has importance, but word for word accuracy? Nuh-uh....
That's how I've always been taught. Having read the "New American Bible" aka the Catholic bible, the overview states that the 'historical' texts of Old Testament consists mostly of parables and allegory. The other books prophesy the coming of Jesus, and the New Testament is pretty literal, except for Revelation.
Rockmjd23 is offline  
Old 11-22-05, 01:00 PM
  #138  
DVD Talk Reviewer
 
Pointyskull's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Formerly known as "12thmonkey"/Frankfort, IL
Posts: 7,714
Received 20 Likes on 18 Posts
This thread =
Pointyskull is offline  
Old 11-22-05, 01:01 PM
  #139  
DVD Talk Hall of Fame
 
Gil Jawetz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: I was here but I disappear
Posts: 8,407
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts

OH...





MY...



Gil Jawetz is offline  
Old 11-22-05, 01:01 PM
  #140  
DVD Talk Ultimate Edition
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Lounging on the beach in L.A., frappucino in hand...
Posts: 4,269
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by DodgingCars
CHRISTIAN: I believe in God and the accuracy of the Bible.
ATHEIST: I don't associate with morons who believes in a magical man in the sky and fairy tales!
Generally my experience too... especially here.

Originally Posted by kvrdave
I've met her in real life and she is a shark. Out for revenge and trying to hurt people. That was my take.
You BRAT! You're just cranky because I mocked WSU... that wasn't a religion thing, that was a "which university is BETTER" thing!
shoppingbear is offline  
Old 11-22-05, 01:01 PM
  #141  
DVD Talk Hall of Fame
 
Cusm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: Moore, OK
Posts: 7,641
Received 24 Likes on 16 Posts
Originally Posted by mrpayroll
I know it's hard not to judge Christianity by the actions of it's so-called believers, but you need to judge Christianity by Jesus Christ himself.

He calls all Christians to be 'servants' to others, he famously said "He who is without sin cast the first stone", and he also said "How can you judge others who have a speck in their eyes, when you have a log in yours?".

So yes, all of those things that you have mentioned have been done in the name of Christianity, but they were/are all wrong and Jesus Christ himself would have spoke out against them.

Chris

This type of action started me re-evaluating my beleifs in highschool. I saw (and still see) christians claiming to be christians, yet following nothing I ever read in the bible. I still say that I act more christian than most christians I know. I have no problem with people beleiving, just keep it away from me and my own. There are poeple trying to get ID into the school system here (thanks to retards in Kansas) and this is when I have a problem with christians. or when they are damning someone (like homosexuals) that the bible might say something against, but it's wording is no stronger than many other things, many of which we would never agree with today.
Cusm is offline  
Old 11-22-05, 01:02 PM
  #142  
BDB
DVD Talk Legend
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Palm Springs and Los Angeles
Posts: 21,593
Received 34 Likes on 34 Posts
"I hear the jury is still out on Science" - Gob
BDB is offline  
Old 11-22-05, 01:03 PM
  #143  
Suspended
 
Join Date: Jun 1999
Posts: 15,108
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
On the 7th day God created the Island. The Island became full of assholes, and thus like in Noah's day God was saddened. So God proceeded to expose the Island for the evil that it is, and he proceeded to strike a blow against it and the fucks that lived in it!

I seeee you, you motherfuckers!
MJKTool is offline  
Old 11-22-05, 01:04 PM
  #144  
DVD Talk Ultimate Edition
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Lounging on the beach in L.A., frappucino in hand...
Posts: 4,269
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by das Monkey
I haven't decided which I find more annoying, moral superiority from the religious nuts or intellectual superiority from the obnoxious Atheists (both minorities in the overall groups). I wish they'd all just shut their pieholes and realize that you can be a moral person without a religious foundation, and you can be an intelligent person and still believe that a higher power was involved in our existence. Although, I have to admit there's great humor watching a moral hypocrite preach his faith to a dumbass Atheist clinging to the hope that his non-belief in God makes him smart.
Originally Posted by das Monkey
Come on. Any time someone mentions God or The Bible around here, a bunch of Atheists/agnostics, flock to the thread to make snide belittling remarks about unicorns or hobbits or fairy tales and what not without any provocation. The reverse, of course, is also true, but I don't think you need convincing of that. Certainly, one is more frequent than the other, simply based on raw demographics, but there are plenty of evangelical Atheists around here just waiting to pounce.
OK, Das is my new hero. Das, you put it very well, and I agree completely.

Of course, that's JUST MY OPINION... you're all welcome to disagree... Not trying to change anyone's mind...


Last edited by shoppingbear; 11-22-05 at 01:07 PM.
shoppingbear is offline  
Old 11-22-05, 01:04 PM
  #145  
DVD Talk God
 
kvrdave's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Location: Pacific NW
Posts: 86,190
Received 8 Likes on 5 Posts
Originally Posted by Groucho
That was the original point...that the Bible isn't 100% accurate.
I guess I still don't see it. They don't disagree with each other. They can all be perfectly accurate in what they describe, but what you are talking about is what they don't describe. If one person says that "2+2=4 and 5+5=10" and the next person says that "2+2=4" are either of those not 100% accurate?

And, I would guess that most people that believe in a literal Bible believe that it is correct in its original writing. That isn't english, and original copies aren't available. I have no problem reconciling that there may be small errors in copying that has been handed down, but given what scholarship has shown with the Dead Sea Scrolls, etc. I also don't believe those small things change anything in the Bible.

I also think people try to place "inerrancy" and "100% accurate" to a Western Culture level rather than the level of those writing it. People get hung up on lineages that aren't perfect, etc. without taking into account the culture of what was customary at the time. It seems silly to look at a very old culture and a very different culture and expect that they would behave the same way we would expect. It would be no different that people 2,000 years from now looking at us and saying, "That's what they call accurate?" It is a different measuring stick.
kvrdave is offline  
Old 11-22-05, 01:04 PM
  #146  
DVD Talk Legend
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Lompoc, CA
Posts: 11,536
Received 10 Likes on 10 Posts
Originally Posted by movielib
Seriously, don't you think most of us get along pretty well and civilly, especially those of us who have gotten to know each other for years?

I think the better people know each other and as long as they have made an effort, the better they get along in spite of widely varying beliefs.

Oh shit, I'm starting to hear "Kumbaya" now.
Someone's padding, Lord...

Last edited by adamblast; 11-22-05 at 01:06 PM.
adamblast is offline  
Old 11-22-05, 01:06 PM
  #147  
DVD Talk Legend
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: MA
Posts: 17,003
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes on 2 Posts
Originally Posted by mrpayroll
I know it's hard not to judge Christianity by the actions of it's so-called believers, but you need to judge Christianity by Jesus Christ himself.

He calls all Christians to be 'servants' to others, he famously said "He who is without sin cast the first stone", and he also said "How can you judge others who have a speck in their eyes, when you have a log in yours?".

So yes, all of those things that you have mentioned have been done in the name of Christianity, but they were/are all wrong and Jesus Christ himself would have spoke out against them.

Chris
That's a good summary of why Pat Robertson and others like him are a joke to me.
Matthew 6:1-6
"(But) take care not to perform righteous deeds in order that people may see them; otherwise, you will have no recompense from your heavenly Father.
When you give alms, do not blow a trumpet before you, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the streets to win the praise of others. Amen, I say to you, they have received their reward.
But when you give alms, do not let your left hand know what your right is doing, so that your almsgiving may be secret. And your Father who sees in secret will repay you.
"When you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, who love to stand and pray in the synagogues and on street corners so that others may see them. Amen, I say to you, they have received their reward. But when you pray, go to your inner room, close the door, and pray to your Father in secret. And your Father who sees in secret will repay you.
Rockmjd23 is offline  
Old 11-22-05, 01:07 PM
  #148  
DVD Talk God
 
kvrdave's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Location: Pacific NW
Posts: 86,190
Received 8 Likes on 5 Posts
Originally Posted by shoppingbear
You BRAT! You're just cranky because I mocked WSU... that wasn't a religion thing, that was a "which university is BETTER" thing!
Well, it obviously wasn't a "which university is BETTER at football" thing.
kvrdave is offline  
Old 11-22-05, 01:08 PM
  #149  
DVD Talk Ultimate Edition
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Lounging on the beach in L.A., frappucino in hand...
Posts: 4,269
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by kvrdave
Well, it obviously wasn't a "which university is BETTER at football" thing.
AHA! THAT must be it, you guys were PRAYING more!
shoppingbear is offline  
Old 11-22-05, 01:09 PM
  #150  
Enormous Genitals
 
Bandoman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: a small cottage on a cul de sac in the lower pits of hell.
Posts: 35,430
Received 316 Likes on 194 Posts
Originally Posted by MJKTool
On the 7th day God created the Island. The Island became full of assholes, and thus like in Noah's day God was saddened. So God proceeded to expose the Island for the evil that it is, and he proceeded to strike a blow against it and the fucks that lived in it!

I seeee you, you motherfuckers!

You are acting just as juvenile here as you did there.
Bandoman is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information -

Copyright 2021 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.