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-   -   Immunizing Children - Should it Still be Done? (https://forum.dvdtalk.com/other-talk/443135-immunizing-children-should-still-done.html)

Jadzia 05-04-07 12:56 PM


Originally Posted by IdgIe49
it became required last year here in Texas. So he had to go get it - because DayCare had to follow the Texas law.

Schools won't tell you this, but you just have to fill out an exemption form. All states have exemptions with the exception of West Virginia and I believe Mississippi.

shifrbv 05-04-07 03:43 PM

I agree with Jadzia on some of this argument. There was a Mother Jones article on this some time ago in which a researcher took a baby tooth from a boy with autism and compared the mercury levels to a baby tooth from his own child. The autistic child has 3000% more mercury than his own child. The whole point about people's bodies processing heavy metals differently was brought out.

Also, there has been alot of comment about studies that have been done. One criticism of that is that the pharmaceuticals don't use true placebos so that is a problem as well. I would like to see an autism study on vaccinated vs. unvaccinated children. I have never seen such a study.

People know something must be going on. The whole shakeup i nthe government agencies that approve vaccines, the resignations, but worst of all, a pass on all legal liability for vaccine makers in of all the places, the freaking Patriot Act (which no one would admit how that got in there)!

The FDA will release almost anything these days. People have to be dying in significant numbers until they can politely "ask" the manufacturers to do something about it. The collusion between government and business these days should make anyone with half a brain take pause.

Also the comment about these disorders always existing but just not being diagnosed doesn't seem accurate. Back in the 70's you never saw kids that acted weird like this - never heard of them. Now, because of the prevalence, almost everybody knows someone who has a kid with this. And you can pick them out of a group - they're just weird. It's not being "made up", it's a real epidemic.

Lastly, movielib was concerned about the costs to society from non-immunization. What about the costs when you have a generation of kids with autism? There is no autism gene. Autism is being created via environmental means - no doubt about it.

movielib 05-04-07 04:58 PM


Originally Posted by shifrbv
Lastly, movielib was concerned about the costs to society from non-immunization.

Are you talking about my Post #137? You're damn right that I think if we stopped vaccinations it would have a disastrous effect on individuals and society. However, I fail to see where I have ever supported mandating vaccinations, if you are trying to say that.


What about the costs when you have a generation of kids with autism? There is no autism gene. Autism is being created via environmental means - no doubt about it.
There certainly is a Mt. Everest of doubt for that silly statement. Look, we hashed this out in this thread almost a year ago. I cited a bunch of studies. If you don't want to believe them, fine. I stand by everything I said last year and I don't think anyone has done anything to refute any of it.

mikehunt 05-04-07 06:20 PM

I presume that when people talk about mercury they're talking about Thimerosal?
it's no longer in the vaccines normally mandated for schools

http://www.cdc.gov/od/science/iso/thimerosal.htm

Today, with the exception of some Influenza (flu) vaccines, none of the vaccines used in the U.S. to protect preschool children against 12 infectious diseases contain thimerosal as a preservative.
http://www.fda.gov/cber/vaccine/thimerosal.htm#t1

if, and it's a big if, mercury is causing autism it's probably due to the mothers eating contaminated seafood while pregnant since developing fetuses are at greater danger

kms_md 05-04-07 07:57 PM


Originally Posted by shifrbv
I agree with Jadzia on some of this argument. There was a Mother Jones article on this some time ago in which a researcher took a baby tooth from a boy with autism and compared the mercury levels to a baby tooth from his own child. The autistic child has 3000% more mercury than his own child. The whole point about people's bodies processing heavy metals differently was brought out.

and the plural of anecdote is not data ...

dork 05-04-07 09:07 PM


Originally Posted by kvrdave
It would seem that the person who dismisses the science may be a wee bit more desperate to believe something.

:)

dork 05-04-07 09:08 PM


Originally Posted by Jadzia
I can't tell without seeing the actual study, but if Dr. Fombonne

http://news.minnesota.publicradio.or...bone_large.jpg

dork 05-04-07 09:12 PM


Originally Posted by Tracer Bullet
That is true. Asperger's Syndrome, for example, was barely diagnosed in the past.

Nowadays we can diagnose it over the Internet!

movielib 07-25-07 04:09 PM

Perhaps the problem of autism is in the genes and not the thimerosal (not that I ever thought it was the thimerosal).

http://www.physorg.com/news104495999.html


Published: 11:39 EST, July 24, 2007

New model for autism suggests women carry the disorder and explains age as a risk factor

A new model for understanding how autism is acquired has been developed by a team of researchers led by Cold Spring Harbor Laboratory (CSHL) and Albert Einstein College of Medicine. Autism is a developmental disorder, characterized by language impairments, social deficits, and repetitive behaviors.

The researchers analyzed data on autism incidence and found a previously unrecognized pattern. The pattern can be explained by assuming that spontaneous germ-line mutation is a significant cause of the disorder. Parents, especially women, who acquire the mutation – but do not exhibit severe symptoms of the disorder – have a 50% chance of passing the mutation on to their children. Sons often show the most severe symptoms.

Spontaneous mutations are changes in a chromosome that alter genes. Germ-line mutations are newly acquired in a germ cell of a parent, and sometimes are transmitted to offspring at conception. Men and women are equally as likely to acquire a spontaneous mutation that can cause autism, but autism is three times more likely in men, making women the more likely carriers of new mutations. “The fact that germ-line mutations increase with age places older parents at a higher risk of having children with autism, explaining a pattern that has been recently observed,” said CSHL co-author of the study Michael Wigler, Ph.D.

The model proposes two prominent risk classes for families affected by autism. Low risk families give rise to sporadic autism, the more common form, by spontaneous germ-line mutation. The children, mostly female, who receive such a mutation, but do not display the disorder, are the source of the high risk families. The data show that the transmission pattern to boys in high risk families is often of a dominant pattern that may account for a quarter of autism. Although the data does not answer whether there is a gradation of lower risk, the model builds on recent CSHL findings that spontaneous mutation is frequent in sporadic autism and less frequent in children from high risk families.

Wigler suggests that “what we now know about spontaneous mutations and autism offers an alternative to traditional thinking about genetic disorders as purely heritable from a parent. This has implications for other disorders such as morbid obesity, schizophrenia, and congenital heart disease.”

Source: Cold Spring Harbor Laboratory

Groucho 07-25-07 04:14 PM

No, that study can't be true movielib. Who am supposed to sue if one of my children has autism, my wife?

mosquitobite 07-26-07 09:06 AM


Originally Posted by movielib
Perhaps the problem of autism is in the genes and not the thimerosal (not that I ever thought it was the thimerosal).

http://www.physorg.com/news104495999.html
-Wigler suggests that “what we now know about spontaneous mutations and autism offers an alternative to traditional thinking about genetic disorders as purely heritable from a parent. This has implications for other disorders such as morbid obesity, schizophrenia, and congenital heart disease.”

Sounds kinda like a certain theory of natural selection, no?

shifrbv 07-26-07 05:03 PM

The fact that germ-line mutations increase with age places older parents at a higher risk of having children with autism, explaining a pattern that has been recently observed

I would like to see data backing this up. Autism has typically been characterized as the condition which knows no "precondition". No class, no race, no age group. Autistic children that I personally know do not fit this reasoning (parents were in early 20's). I think the only ones that have been talked about that seemed like they didn't have it were the Amish. They do not do vaccinations and some of their members have stated they believe vaccination's to be harmful. They also abstain from modern day pollutants and chemicals which are common in most households. They did not see the explosion of cases in the early 90's like the rest of the world meaning something must have been going on at that particular time period for the general population which they were not participating in.

gilbertr76 07-26-07 05:14 PM

I blame processed foods, not vaccinations. And no, I do not have any evidence to back this up... -ptth-

Draven 07-26-07 05:17 PM


Originally Posted by gilbertr76
I blame processed foods, not vaccinations. And no, I do not have any evidence to back this up... -ptth-

You'll be right at home in this thread.

al_bundy 07-26-07 05:55 PM


Originally Posted by shifrbv
The fact that germ-line mutations increase with age places older parents at a higher risk of having children with autism, explaining a pattern that has been recently observed

I would like to see data backing this up. Autism has typically been characterized as the condition which knows no "precondition". No class, no race, no age group. Autistic children that I personally know do not fit this reasoning (parents were in early 20's). I think the only ones that have been talked about that seemed like they didn't have it were the Amish. They do not do vaccinations and some of their members have stated they believe vaccination's to be harmful. They also abstain from modern day pollutants and chemicals which are common in most households. They did not see the explosion of cases in the early 90's like the rest of the world meaning something must have been going on at that particular time period for the general population which they were not participating in.

i think that's when the started feeding cows bovine growth hormone to increase milk production

whatever it was, i think it's going to remain a closely guarded secret because the potential liability will be greater than the silicone breast implant thing


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