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-   -   Immunizing Children - Should it Still be Done? (https://forum.dvdtalk.com/other-talk/443135-immunizing-children-should-still-done.html)

Deftones 10-28-05 11:16 AM


Originally Posted by tbird2340
I think you must not read. And that says a lot.

I said NUMEROUS times:

"We are just starting to look into which immunizations we should allow our child to get."

"I'm not going to use this thread as the main factor for what we are going to do (obviously) but I do want to see peoples opinions."

"This is not saying that I won't get vaccines for the baby.. Just that I'm entertaining the thought of not."

"Definately.. I'm not just taking anyone's word.."

And one more time just in case those don't get that point across..

I am in the process of RESEARCHING / asking others, reading books, searching the net, etc. I am in no means leaning towards my FRIENDS way of thinking.. I'm actually leaning towards the norm (which it to vaccinate). But being that everyone's replies were TO do it I decided to play devils advocate to try and get some facts...

Yeah, after you got bagged on by 7 other members here. You seemed adamant that your "friend" knew everything and any information they gave you was the end all. Then you slowly changed your perception when people provided documentation as to why your friend was wrong. Interesting how someone can do a 180 in such a short span of a few posts. :lol:

Groucho 10-28-05 11:16 AM


Originally Posted by Shazam
Like I have said to you in previous threads but you seem to not accept, Formaldehyde is formed by the body when eating.

Hogwash! Dead people don't eat. :mad:

tbird2340 10-28-05 11:19 AM


Originally Posted by Shazam
And do you have proof that your "friend" has any idea what he's talking about?

Is this a serious question? If so.. I think he got his GED when he was 32.. How's that?

Groucho 10-28-05 11:19 AM


Originally Posted by Deftones
Interesting how someone can do a 180 in such a short span of a few posts. :lol:

I wouldn't give him a hard time. His first post seemed open to both points of view, and his defense of his friend was in response to an unnecessarily snarky remark made my myself.

I've seen a lot of threads where somebody is asking for advice. 99 people say, "Do this." 1 person says "Do that," and the original poster goes with the 1 person because what they really wanted was validation of a decision they've already made. That doesn't seem to be the case here.

Jadzia 10-28-05 11:19 AM


Originally Posted by WildcatLH
As for breastfeeding, you do realize that the only reason that breastfeeding passes on temporary immune resistance is that the mother is already immune, right? If the mother didn't have her vaccinations and wasn't already immune, breast milk wouldn't do a thing for those diseases.

That's not exactly how it works. It is an ongoing process. The baby passes on the germs he is exposed to the mom via saliva while breastfeeding and her body actually produces autoimmune factors to fight the germs which are then put into her breastmilk about 6-8 hours later. I thought that was very cool when I learned that! I'd like to see "formula" do that.

Shazam 10-28-05 11:20 AM


Originally Posted by tbird2340
Is this a serious question? If so.. I think he got his GED when he was 32.. How's that?

Of course it's a serious question. What, do you believe everything everyone tells you?

tbird2340 10-28-05 11:21 AM


Originally Posted by Deftones
Yeah, after you got bagged on by 7 other members here. You seemed adamant that your "friend" knew everything and any information they gave you was the end all. Then you slowly changed your perception when people provided documentation as to why your friend was wrong. Interesting how someone can do a 180 in such a short span of a few posts. :lol:

Sorry you took it that way.. Like I said. I am trying to go with the alternative view because no one else is..

I could honestly care less what you think but I'm just telling you.. I hadn't formed an opinion either way before the thread, during, or as of yet..

tbird2340 10-28-05 11:22 AM


Originally Posted by Shazam
Of course it's a serious question. What, do you believe everything everyone tells you?

Of course not.. Just didn't know how I was supposed to provide "proof". Did you want me to record our conversation?

Bandoman 10-28-05 11:28 AM

I don't see why people are jumping on the OP, he seems sincerely interested in hearing all views on the issue and does not seem to have already made up his mind.

My $0.02 - I'm a lawyer, and I've defended medical malpractice cases involving alleged injury done by vaccines (specifically the DPT vaccine). I was defending the pediatrician who prescribed and administered the vaccine, so I certainly had a vested interest in reaching a conclusion that the DPT vaccine could not have caused the child's microcephalia, but all of the research was in my client's favor.

I have three children, and they have had their vaccinations.

mrpayroll 10-28-05 11:28 AM


Originally Posted by tbird2340
:lol:

I think he was serious!

Chris

kvrdave 10-28-05 11:33 AM

Personally, I did the research when we were first pregnant. Aside from the Chicken Pox vaccine, which I thought was silly when they came out with it, we had our children vaccinated for everything.

JasonF 10-28-05 11:39 AM


Originally Posted by tbird2340
When was the last case of polio?

Two weeks ago

http://www.mercurynews.com/mld/mercu...h/12894026.htm


Four children in Minnesota contract polio

MARTIGA LOHN

Associated Press


ST. PAUL, Minn. - Four children in an Amish community in Minnesota have contracted the polio virus - the first known infections in the U.S. in five years, state health officials said Thursday.

Dr. Harry Hull, the state epidemiologist, said the cases do not pose a threat to the general public because most people have been vaccinated against polio and are unlikely to have contact with Amish people. But he said he expects to find more infections within the Amish community because some of its members refuse immunizations on religious grounds.

None of the children have shown any symptoms of the paralyzing disease. About one in 200 people who contract the polio virus suffer paralysis because of it; others typically rid themselves the virus after weeks or months.

None of the four children had been vaccinated. Three are siblings; the fourth is a baby from another family.

The infection came to light when the baby was hospitalized for various health problems and underwent tests. Authorities then began testing other members of the community for the virus.

Officials would not identify the Amish community but said it consisted of 100 to 200 people.

Hull said the infections were traced to an oral vaccine that was administered in another country, probably within the past three years.

The use of oral polio vaccine containing the live virus was stopped in the United States in 2000. The live-virus vaccine caused an average of eight cases of polio a year in the United States. The U.S. and Canada now use an injected vaccine made from the killed virus.

State and federal officials are investigating how an infection from a vaccine given in another country reached Minnesota. Stool or saliva from an infected person can transmit the virus.

Health officials said they are working with the Amish community to determine who may have been exposed to the virus, and to encourage immunizations.

"We have been going house to house, talking with them about the risk, offering the vaccine and attempting to collect specimens to see if the virus has been spreading," Hull said. "Some families have said, `No, thank you, we do not want to interact with you at all.' Other families have said, `Sure, we'll get vaccinated. We'll provide specimens.'"

Without the community's cooperation, Hull said, there is a chance of an outbreak similar to one that occurred in 1979 in Amish communities in Iowa, Wisconsin, Missouri and Pennsylvania. Ten people were left paralyzed by the disease, according to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.

The last naturally occurring case of polio in the United States was in 1979, and health officials consider the disease eliminated in the Western Hemisphere. It persists in other parts of the world, with the vast majority of cases concentrated in India, Nigeria and Pakistan, according to the World Health Organization.

According to the CDC, more than 95 percent of U.S. children are vaccinated against polio by the time they enter school.

mrpayroll 10-28-05 11:48 AM


Originally Posted by JasonF


So since many are refusing to even get tested, there could be even more than the 4 cases that have already been found. :(

I'm sorry, nowhere in the Bible does it say that we cannot trust in doctors. God is in control of everything and everyone, so I'm sure he can work his good thru vaccinations and yes, sometimes there are side effects, but the benefits vastly outweigh the few problems that have been reported.

Think of it, hundreds of millions of kids have been vaccinated here in the United States over the last 100 years (?) and the majority of them are fine. Any health problems that they have as adults are usually because of their own bad habits. Maybe that is a simplistic way of looking at it, but I am a simple man! :)

Chris

kvrdave 10-28-05 11:50 AM

UNBELIEVER!!!!


:lol:

jdodd 10-28-05 11:50 AM


Originally Posted by mrpayroll
...I am a simple man! :)

And you would have been so much more if you hadn't been vaccinated. -ohbfrank-


( ;) )

uli2000 10-28-05 11:51 AM


Originally Posted by Jadzia
Most of the "diseases" that infants are immunized against are less scary than the side effects of the vaccines. I mean, come on, a chicken pox vaccine? That one doesn't even work and when it wears off, you end up getting chicken pox as an adult which is much more serious.

I agree with you on the varicella vacination, but the vaccines are worse than the deseases? Tell that to my mother in law. She had polio (a very mild case from what I understand) as a child and still is living with difficulties from the desease.

Recca 10-28-05 12:26 PM

As far as the link between autism and immunizations, the only study in a peer-reviewed medical journal that supports this claim was published in The Lancet in 1998. The most of the authors of the article later signed a retraction when it was found that the main author was receiving funding from the legal counsel of parents suing vaccine companies, clearly an enormous conflict of interest. The study only examined 12 subjects, some of which were the children involved in the lawsuit, and even the faulty article claimed that more research was needed to draw a definitive connection. A more in depth summary of the situation can be found at Quackwatch, with all the references cited so you can look into it yourself.

http://www.quackwatch.org/03HealthPr...mu/autism.html

It seems the OP is coming around, but his friend's advice is suspect as most people involved in natural medicine have a bias against traditional medicine. If you asked any medical doctor if they have vaccinated their children, you'd be hard pressed to find one that hasn't. I highly doubt they would subject their own children to immunizations if it was unneccesary or potentially harmful.

beencrazier 10-28-05 12:41 PM

Hi! Nursing student, and I'm going to relate what my professors have told me from day1: the benefits of vaccines far outweigh the side effects. Now I don't want to pull out my micro book or nursing books for reference, so I'm just going with the information that I'm paying people to tell me (granted, they all may be lying...). I know we have to have all of our vaccinations for nursing school. I feel safer knowing that I'm protected....

My advice? Talk to your ob or nurse about your concerns.

Good luck with your research!

Y2K Falcon 10-28-05 01:05 PM


Originally Posted by Jadzia
I mean, come on, a chicken pox vaccine? That one doesn't even work and when it wears off, you end up getting chicken pox as an adult...

Not to nitpick, but...

Which is it? It doesn't work, or it works and "wears off"?

Sound more like you are advocating the need for a booster shot. ;)

El Scorcho 10-28-05 01:08 PM


Originally Posted by Y2K Falcon
Will you not be feeding your child beef because of mad cow disease?
Will your child not go to the park because of bird flu?
Will your child not ever ride in a car or breathe, or drink water (flouridated or otherwise), not to mention non-organic meat/milk?


No! And such is mango!

http://snl.jt.org/arc/char/ChKa-Mango.jpg

Rockmjd23 10-28-05 02:28 PM


Originally Posted by Jadzia
Most of the "diseases" that infants are immunized against are less scary than the side effects of the vaccines.

:lol:

taa455 10-28-05 03:00 PM

There is clearly a lot of bad and/or exaggerated information going around about vaccines. Most vaccinations are definitely needed and have little to no side effects. I would suggest getting information from a real doctor. "Natural medicine" (most of it anyway) is a crock of BS.

Gasspasser 10-28-05 03:03 PM


Originally Posted by Green Jello
Any the only evidence there was (minimal) was linked to the preservative which is now no longer used in the shots.


Absolutely FALSE. They had no idea what they thought caused it and they made a wild guess thinking that it was mercury so it was removed from all immunizations except the flu shot. Well guess what, they found out that the study that claimed immunizations cause autism was 100% false so it didnt matter if it was removed or not.

Gasspasser 10-28-05 03:05 PM


Originally Posted by tbird2340
So are these pretty much the norm for child vaccines?



#Rotavirus


ROTA immunization was pulled off the market and you can no longer get it. It was highly correlated to intussusception.

Draven 10-28-05 03:08 PM

Let's see: advice from our pediatrician or advice from DVD Talkers

I think I'm going to go with the pediatrician. But I promise I won't ask her advice on which Criterion to pick up next.

bigsoos 10-28-05 03:28 PM

where's ketamine at?

tbird2340 10-28-05 03:31 PM


Originally Posted by Draven
Let's see: advice from our pediatrician or advice from DVD Talkers

I think I'm going to go with the pediatrician. But I promise I won't ask her advice on which Criterion to pick up next.

:lol:

FYI - DVD Talkers have professions too..

Anubis2005X 10-28-05 03:31 PM

Man, I'm really glad my parents didn't have any crazy friends to give 'em this crappy advice. There's a reason that humans are living longer now than they were in the past.

By the way, the argument that your friend is a real doctor doesn't mean squat to me. I don't go to the doctor very often, but there's definitely no shortage of Dr. Nick's out there...

But, to be fair, I personally have never gotten a Flu Vaccine, as I think it's a load of bull. So, I guess my advice is to keep looking into it. But I think the good of most vaccines far outway the bad. The flu doesn't worry me though...

Draven 10-28-05 03:56 PM


Originally Posted by tbird2340
:lol:

FYI - DVD Talkers have professions too..

Until a pediatrician wanders in here, I'm going to stick to my story.

El Scorcho 10-28-05 03:58 PM

As a 3rd year pediatrician, I must say that Draven is flat out wrong.

mllefoo 10-28-05 04:01 PM


Originally Posted by tbird2340
Well. I will tend to believe that my "friend" may be slightly more educated in this then you. He didn't just say "don't do it. it will kill your baby." He is VERY knowledgeable in this area and I tend to believe what he has to say.

This is not saying that I won't get vaccines for the baby.. Just that I'm entertaining the thought of not.

And this is a pretty popular debate. Just look at the amount of books are written about it when I search for "Vaccine Children" at bn.com:

Link

Unless you plan on home schooling, I believe all or most public schools require children to be immunized against rubella and a few other diseases. Hell, I think I got my first tetanus shot when I was ten.

mrpayroll 10-28-05 04:11 PM


Originally Posted by mllefoo
Unless you plan on home schooling, I believe all or most public schools require children to be immunized against rubella and a few other diseases. Hell, I think I got my first tetanus shot when I was ten.

Hell, I got all of my shots in the 60's and I turned out fine, except for the blood clots, spinal problems and loss of hair!

Chris

Draven 10-28-05 05:54 PM


Originally Posted by El Scorcho
As a 3rd year pediatrician, I must say that Draven is flat out wrong.

:( So I shouldn't get ANY Criterions?

mikehunt 10-28-05 06:37 PM


Originally Posted by Green Jello
For what it's worth, my wife works with Autistic kids for a living and spends a great deal of time reading up on this subject. We just had our first child 5 weeks ago and he WILL be getting all his immunizations.

Also, many puplic schools are now requiring them anyway. So if you don't have the money for private school, you might not have a choice.

I think private schools require them too, especially the communicable stuff like measels

twikoff 10-28-05 06:52 PM

wow
you were given some very poor advice, based on very incorrect information
and it seems like you looking for people to back that information up, while ignoring the 99% that point out how stupid it is.

if you want to risk your own life based on stupid advice from friends, thats your own decision
but these are your kids lives you are talking about here

Jadzia 10-28-05 08:05 PM


Originally Posted by Rockmjd23
:lol:

Guess you have never met a parent of a vaccine-injured child.

http://vaers.hhs.gov/

wildcatlh 10-28-05 08:09 PM


Originally Posted by Jadzia
Guess you have never met a parent of a vaccine-injured child.

http://vaers.hhs.gov/

Nobody said that there wasn't such a thing as vaccine-related injury. Unfortunately, someone, somewhere can have a serious, even deadly, reaction, to anything that can be eaten, drunk, or injected by 99.99% of people without so much as a sniffle.

It happens. It's exceedingly rare. But it happens.

The Cow 10-28-05 08:17 PM


Originally Posted by Groucho
In the interest of full disclosure, my kids are fully vaccinized.

So... Your kids are full of it?

Jadzia 10-28-05 08:21 PM


Originally Posted by WildcatLH
Nobody said that there wasn't such a thing as vaccine-related injury. Unfortunately, someone, somewhere can have a serious, even deadly, reaction, to anything that can be eaten, drunk, or injected by 99.99% of people without so much as a sniffle.

It happens. It's exceedingly rare. But it happens.

I am just saying it is not as rare as one might think. That is why you need to research each disease and the vax and decide if it is worth the risk. And some of the diseases they are vaxing for now are not as serious or as risky as the side effects-- or the cumulative effect of that many vaccines on a small, developing body.

That is why I recommend selectively vaxing. Just because the drug companies invent some new vaccine doesn't mean you should blindly follow the CDC/AAP's advice to pump something in your child's bloodstream. Cases in point: Hep B at birth, varicella, flu shots etc. These are all recommended and most people just blindly inject them into their precious infant without question because the almighty doctor says so.

It is all about being an informed consumer. And just reading the CDC handout/propaganda you are given at the doctor's office does not constitue research.

A great book I would recommend is "What Your Doctor May Not Tell You About Children's Immunizations" by Dr. Stephanie Cave. She sifts through a lot of facts and fiction and proposes a more common sense vaccination schedule than the crazy one they currently foist on parents.

Recca 10-28-05 08:35 PM


Originally Posted by Jadzia
Guess you have never met a parent of a vaccine-injured child.

http://vaers.hhs.gov/

Nice site. Some of the highlights.

From the VAERS Data section

VAERS data contains coincidental events and those truly caused by vaccines.

* Over ten million vaccinations per year are given to children less than one year old, usually between 2 months and 6 months of age. At this age, infants are at greatest risk for certain medical events, including high fevers, seizures, and sudden infant death syndrome (SIDS). Some infants will by coincidence experience such an event shortly after a vaccination.
* These coincidences make it difficult to know whether a particular adverse event resulted from a concurrent condition or from a vaccination. Therefore, doctors and other vaccine providers are encouraged to report all adverse events following vaccinations, whether or not they believe that the vaccination was the cause.

From the Frequently Asked Questions


What is VAERS? top

The Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System (VAERS) is a national vaccine safety surveillance program co-sponsored by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) and the Food and Drug Administration (FDA). VAERS collects and analyzes information from reports of adverse events following immunization. Since 1990, VAERS has received over 123,000 reports, most of which describe mild side effects such as fever. Very rarely, people experience serious adverse events following immunization. By monitoring such events, VAERS helps to identify any important new safety concerns and thereby assists in ensuring that the benefits of vaccines continue to be far greater than the risks.

So if we take their estimate of 10 million vaccines per year, account for 15 years since 1990 (not counting 2005), and the 123,000 reports of adverse effects since 1990, we can do some math.

10,000,000 x 15 = 150,000,000 vaccines administered since 1990

123,000/150,000,000 = .00082 or .082% incidence rate of adverse effects from vaccines administered since 1990, many of which are fairly minor, such as fever

Granted, it's a very rough calculation and I'm sure there were some cases that weren't reported, but the numbers speak for themselves.


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