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-   -   Immunizing Children - Should it Still be Done? (https://forum.dvdtalk.com/other-talk/443135-immunizing-children-should-still-done.html)

Deftones 10-28-05 10:54 AM

I think the fact that says you are relying solely on what a friend said instead of investigating this yourself says alot.

Groucho 10-28-05 10:56 AM

Global Case Count for Polio, 2005

Currently at 1414, last updated October 25.

Doesn't appear to include the Minnesota Cases.

Jadzia 10-28-05 10:58 AM

Most of the "diseases" that infants are immunized against are less scary than the side effects of the vaccines. I mean, come on, a chicken pox vaccine? That one doesn't even work and when it wears off, you end up getting chicken pox as an adult which is much more serious.

When most of us were infants we got a few vaccines. Now children receive something like 27 vaccines by the time they are 6 years old. It is just crazy to think it is healthy to pump little babies blood streams with dangerous chemicals and germs and have them not be affected. The drug companies keep inroducing these new vaccines but they never do long term studies n the cumulative effects of pumping kids with so much stuff. I really believe their little bodies can not handle it which is why so many kids are now developing neurological problems and allergies.

Before anyone gets their child immunized they should at least question and do research. Read the ingredients on a vaccine insert. Research the diseases, the risk of the diseases and the risks of the side effects. Say no to the vaxes that do not make sense to you. We declined the Hep B vaccine at birth, because I am not a carrier and I see no logic of vaccinating a baby against a sexually tranmitted disease. And I know there are many babies who have died because of this vaccine. That is just not a risk I was willing to take with my infant.

We got the 2, 4 and 6 month shots but I am regretting those as I felt bullied because I had not yet finished my research. We declined the MMR and the 12 month shots and I am delaying giving any more to my chld until he is older and I can fully research everything.

tbird2340, I recommend you visit thisforum which has a ton of links to info that can help you in your research. There are some great mamas (and daddys) there who think for themselves and do not fall in line with the crap that the CDC spews.

There has been a ton of misinformation regurgitated in this thread already and I don't have time to de-bunk it all, but let me ask a few questions to the people who think all vaxes are great:
If mercury was not harmful and did not cause autism, then why was it removed just a few years ago? Why did the autism rate dramatically increase in 1991 which coincided with the recommeded vax schedule massive ncreasing the number of shots? Why was autism unknown before the introduction of thimerosol in the 1930s? Why is it unknown in other countries until we started importing our vaxes to them?

And for the record, the mercury is still there. A group took samples of vaccines and had them tested and they still contained mercury. Plus there is other crap in vaccines like aluminum and formaldehyde which are just as harmful.

Anyway, I have said my piece. Tbird-- good for you for thinking for yourself in this issue and wanting to do the right thing! Too many parents just blindly follow advice by the medical community that is just not sound, without doing their own research. Congrats on the pregnancy and my #1 piece of advice for ensuring the health of your infant: BREASTFEEDING! :)

tbird2340 10-28-05 11:00 AM


Originally Posted by Deftones
I think the fact that says you are relying solely on what a friend said instead of investigating this yourself says alot.


I think you must not read. And that says a lot.

I said NUMEROUS times:

"We are just starting to look into which immunizations we should allow our child to get."

"I'm not going to use this thread as the main factor for what we are going to do (obviously) but I do want to see peoples opinions."

"This is not saying that I won't get vaccines for the baby.. Just that I'm entertaining the thought of not."

"Definately.. I'm not just taking anyone's word.."

And one more time just in case those don't get that point across..

I am in the process of RESEARCHING / asking others, reading books, searching the net, etc. I am in no means leaning towards my FRIENDS way of thinking.. I'm actually leaning towards the norm (which it to vaccinate). But being that everyone's replies were TO do it I decided to play devils advocate to try and get some facts...

mrpayroll 10-28-05 11:01 AM


Originally Posted by Y2K Falcon
Gas companies.

Repost!

http://www.dvdtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=443022


-ohbfrank-

Chris

Shazam 10-28-05 11:03 AM


Originally Posted by tbird2340
When was the last case of polio? A quick search said it was back in 1979.

What search was that with?!? I typed "polio cases us" into Google and the FIRST link was this:

http://msnbc.msn.com/id/9687419/

You've got to be brain dead not to vaccinate. You see, the diseases that vaccinations prevent are very SERIOUS and DEBILITATING. Often, the diseases have NO CURE - in other words, the ONLY way to not have the disease is to not get it in the first place.

And do you have proof that your "friend" has any idea what he's talking about?

wildcatlh 10-28-05 11:03 AM

Most studies say that autism wasn't any less common earlier, we just didn't know what it was and it wasn't diagnosed. Now we can recognize it and diagnose it, and it just LOOKS like there's more cases.

As for breastfeeding, you do realize that the only reason that breastfeeding passes on temporary immune resistance is that the mother is already immune, right? If the mother didn't have her vaccinations and wasn't already immune, breast milk wouldn't do a thing for those diseases.

What I'm scared of is that there are going to be diseases we killed off long, long ago that return because of people who refuse to vaccinate because of some theory that it may cause side effects that is unproven, unresearched, and has zero real evidence behind it.

tbird2340 10-28-05 11:03 AM


Originally Posted by Groucho
Global Case Count for Polio, 2005

Currently at 1414, last updated October 25.

Doesn't appear to include the Minnesota Cases.

Thanks a lot for that link Groucho.. :up:

Groucho 10-28-05 11:06 AM

Penn and Teller should do a show about this.

tbird2340 10-28-05 11:07 AM


Originally Posted by Jadzia
Most of the "diseases" that infants are immunized against are less scary than the side effects of the vaccines. I mean, come on, a chicken pox vaccine? That one doesn't even work and when it wears off, you end up getting chicken pox as an adult which is much more serious.

When most of us were infants we got a few vaccines. Now children receive something like 27 vaccines by the time they are 6 years old. It is just crazy to think it is healthy to pump little babies blood streams with dangerous chemicals and germs and have them not be affected. The drug companies keep inroducing these new vaccines but they never do long term studies n the cumulative effects of pumping kids with so much stuff. I really believe their little bodies can not handle it which is why so many kids are now developing neurological problems and allergies.

Before anyone gets their child immunized they should at least question and do research. Read the ingredients on a vaccine insert. Research the diseases, the risk of the diseases and the risks of the side effects. Say no to the vaxes that do not make sense to you. We declined the Hep B vaccine at birth, because I am not a carrier and I see no logic of vaccinating a baby against a sexually tranmitted disease. And I know there are many babies who have died because of this vaccine. That is just not a risk I was willing to take with my infant.

We got the 2, 4 and 6 month shots but I am regretting those as I felt bullied because I had not yet finished my research. We declined the MMR and the 12 month shots and I am delaying giving any more to my chld until he is older and I can fully research everything.

tbird2340, I recommend you visit thisforum which has a ton of links to info that can help you in your research. There are some great mamas (and daddys) there who think for themselves and do not fall in line with the crap that the CDC spews.

There has been a ton of misinformation regurgitated in this thread already and I don't have time to de-bunk it all, but let me ask a few questions to the people who think all vaxes are great:
If mercury was not harmful and did not cause autism, then why was it removed just a few years ago? Why did the autism rate dramatically increase in 1991 which coincided with the recommeded vax schedule massive ncreasing the number of shots? Why was autism unknown before the introduction of thimerosol in the 1930s? Why is it unknown in other countries until we started importing our vaxes to them?

And for the record, the mercury is still there. A group took samples of vaccines and had them tested and they still contained mercury. Plus there is other crap in vaccines like aluminum and formaldehyde which are just as harmful.

Anyway, I have said my piece. Tbird-- good for you for thinking for yourself in this issue and wanting to do the right thing! Too many parents just blindly follow advice by the medical community that is just not sound, without doing their own research. Congrats on the pregnancy and my #1 piece of advice for ensuring the health of your infant: BREASTFEEDING! :)

Thanks a lot for this post Jazdia. I'm guessing more posters then not are just posting what they are because they feel "it's the right thing to do" and not researching it themselves.

tbird2340 10-28-05 11:08 AM


Originally Posted by Groucho
Penn and Teller should do a show about this.

:lol:

Groucho 10-28-05 11:10 AM


Originally Posted by tbird2340
Thanks a lot for this post Jazdia. I'm guessing more posters then not are just posting what they are because they feel "it's the right thing to do" and not researching it themselves.

It should be pointed out that I'm a parent, and I have researched this myself.

In the interest of full disclosure, my kids are fully vaccinized.

Nazgul 10-28-05 11:12 AM


Originally Posted by tbird2340
Thanks a lot for this post Jazdia. I'm guessing more posters then not are just posting what they are because they feel "it's the right thing to do" and not researching it themselves.

I don't think you should assume that others are not researching it themselves. I could find plenty of 'evidence' that the Holocaust never occured.

As for the argument that some of this is hype stirred up by the drug companies and Health Care, what's more expensive, a few shots or long-term care due to a disease that could have been prevented?

Shazam 10-28-05 11:14 AM


Why was autism unknown before the introduction of thimerosol in the 1930s?
Show me a causation between the two, not a correlation. You do know the difference, right?


Why did the autism rate dramatically increase in 1991 which coincided with the recommeded vax schedule massive ncreasing the number of shots?
Show me a causation between the two, not a correlation. You do know the difference, right?


Plus there is other crap in vaccines like aluminum and formaldehyde which are just as harmful.
Like I have said to you in previous threads but you seem to not accept, Formaldehyde is formed by the body when eating.

bigsoos 10-28-05 11:16 AM


Originally Posted by Jadzia
There has been a ton of misinformation regurgitated in this thread already and I don't have time to de-bunk it all, but let me ask a few questions to the people who think all vaxes are great:
If mercury was not harmful and did not cause autism, then why was it removed just a few years ago? Why did the autism rate dramatically increase in 1991 which coincided with the recommeded vax schedule massive ncreasing the number of shots? Why was autism unknown before the introduction of thimerosol in the 1930s? Why is it unknown in other countries until we started importing our vaxes to them?

http://kidshealth.org/parent/general...nizations.html

1) In an effort to reduce childhood exposure to mercury and other heavy metals, thimerosal began being removed from kids' vaccines in 1999.

2,3,4) So what could explain the increased rates of autism in recent years? For one thing, there's a broader definition of autism that can be applied to more children who show varying degrees of symptoms. A greater awareness of the condition among health professionals has also led to more diagnoses.

And although the number of children diagnosed with autism may be increasing, the rates of MMR vaccination are not. In London, diagnosis of autistic disorders has been on the rise since 1979 but rates of MMR vaccination haven't increased since routine MMR vaccination began in 1988.

In addition, the average age of diagnosis of autism has been found to be the same in both children who have and who have not received the MMR vaccine. What many researchers are discovering is that subtle symptoms of autism are often present before a child's first birthday - sometimes even in early infancy - but often go unnoticed until the symptoms are more obvious to parents.

Deftones 10-28-05 11:16 AM


Originally Posted by tbird2340
I think you must not read. And that says a lot.

I said NUMEROUS times:

"We are just starting to look into which immunizations we should allow our child to get."

"I'm not going to use this thread as the main factor for what we are going to do (obviously) but I do want to see peoples opinions."

"This is not saying that I won't get vaccines for the baby.. Just that I'm entertaining the thought of not."

"Definately.. I'm not just taking anyone's word.."

And one more time just in case those don't get that point across..

I am in the process of RESEARCHING / asking others, reading books, searching the net, etc. I am in no means leaning towards my FRIENDS way of thinking.. I'm actually leaning towards the norm (which it to vaccinate). But being that everyone's replies were TO do it I decided to play devils advocate to try and get some facts...

Yeah, after you got bagged on by 7 other members here. You seemed adamant that your "friend" knew everything and any information they gave you was the end all. Then you slowly changed your perception when people provided documentation as to why your friend was wrong. Interesting how someone can do a 180 in such a short span of a few posts. :lol:

Groucho 10-28-05 11:16 AM


Originally Posted by Shazam
Like I have said to you in previous threads but you seem to not accept, Formaldehyde is formed by the body when eating.

Hogwash! Dead people don't eat. :mad:

tbird2340 10-28-05 11:19 AM


Originally Posted by Shazam
And do you have proof that your "friend" has any idea what he's talking about?

Is this a serious question? If so.. I think he got his GED when he was 32.. How's that?

Groucho 10-28-05 11:19 AM


Originally Posted by Deftones
Interesting how someone can do a 180 in such a short span of a few posts. :lol:

I wouldn't give him a hard time. His first post seemed open to both points of view, and his defense of his friend was in response to an unnecessarily snarky remark made my myself.

I've seen a lot of threads where somebody is asking for advice. 99 people say, "Do this." 1 person says "Do that," and the original poster goes with the 1 person because what they really wanted was validation of a decision they've already made. That doesn't seem to be the case here.

Jadzia 10-28-05 11:19 AM


Originally Posted by WildcatLH
As for breastfeeding, you do realize that the only reason that breastfeeding passes on temporary immune resistance is that the mother is already immune, right? If the mother didn't have her vaccinations and wasn't already immune, breast milk wouldn't do a thing for those diseases.

That's not exactly how it works. It is an ongoing process. The baby passes on the germs he is exposed to the mom via saliva while breastfeeding and her body actually produces autoimmune factors to fight the germs which are then put into her breastmilk about 6-8 hours later. I thought that was very cool when I learned that! I'd like to see "formula" do that.

Shazam 10-28-05 11:20 AM


Originally Posted by tbird2340
Is this a serious question? If so.. I think he got his GED when he was 32.. How's that?

Of course it's a serious question. What, do you believe everything everyone tells you?

tbird2340 10-28-05 11:21 AM


Originally Posted by Deftones
Yeah, after you got bagged on by 7 other members here. You seemed adamant that your "friend" knew everything and any information they gave you was the end all. Then you slowly changed your perception when people provided documentation as to why your friend was wrong. Interesting how someone can do a 180 in such a short span of a few posts. :lol:

Sorry you took it that way.. Like I said. I am trying to go with the alternative view because no one else is..

I could honestly care less what you think but I'm just telling you.. I hadn't formed an opinion either way before the thread, during, or as of yet..

tbird2340 10-28-05 11:22 AM


Originally Posted by Shazam
Of course it's a serious question. What, do you believe everything everyone tells you?

Of course not.. Just didn't know how I was supposed to provide "proof". Did you want me to record our conversation?

Bandoman 10-28-05 11:28 AM

I don't see why people are jumping on the OP, he seems sincerely interested in hearing all views on the issue and does not seem to have already made up his mind.

My $0.02 - I'm a lawyer, and I've defended medical malpractice cases involving alleged injury done by vaccines (specifically the DPT vaccine). I was defending the pediatrician who prescribed and administered the vaccine, so I certainly had a vested interest in reaching a conclusion that the DPT vaccine could not have caused the child's microcephalia, but all of the research was in my client's favor.

I have three children, and they have had their vaccinations.

mrpayroll 10-28-05 11:28 AM


Originally Posted by tbird2340
:lol:

I think he was serious!

Chris


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