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my pay pal dispute is getting out of hand, what can I do?

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my pay pal dispute is getting out of hand, what can I do?

Old 10-21-05, 10:16 PM
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my pay pal dispute is getting out of hand, what can I do?

I sold my mac on e-bay and the buyer immediately paid via pay pal. I was out of town for the weekend and in the process lost my wallet... when I got back there were at least 10 e-mails in my in-box... initially agressive and blunt 'when will you ship' getting progressively meaner and paranoid 'Do you want me to phone the police?" This made me very defensive and angry so I put off shipping a couple days and lied to him that I was going through personal crisis and would get around to shipping his item later that week. He responded back five minutes later "If you are trying to scam me asshole, you will lose, I promise you that," ..... a few days later I finally shipped it... I e-mailed him and he accused me of being a Nigerian scammer (due to my 'strange' name) "I should never have dealt with you, I knew from the start something was up" ..... though what is 'up' I have no idea??

I have a habit of tossing out all receipts without really thinking, so I lost the tracking # after shipping... It's just one of those things. I hate receipts. He said 'For the last time where's my tracking #?" I told him I sent via USPS priority and he'll be receiving it in two days... He then went to pay pal and filed a complaint... Pay pal took $1000 out of my account ($1000 I don't have, so now I'm -$1000) and asks me to either give him a refund or provide a tracking # proof that I shipped.

I proceeded to send many paranoid and angry emails, and he's not responding ,so I am getting progressively meaner and desperate "I just want you to admit you received the computer and close your dispute on pay pal. If you lie and tell them you never received it, I will jump out of a window, I can't afford to be out $1000, I am going through personal crisis, I don't need this."

I emailed ebay and all I get are stock-form responses. Is there anything I can do?
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Old 10-21-05, 10:23 PM
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How do you lose the tracking number? Thatís just unacceptable. Especially with a $1000 transaction. From reading this story, I am a little sketchy of his intentions. How much feedback does he have? Whatís his history look like regarding the feedback?

Most important question, was his paypal address confirmed?
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Old 10-21-05, 10:26 PM
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Hire a lawyer? I don't think telling him you're gonna jump out a window would make him tell the truth.

Why not try the post office. Perhaps they can find the tracking number. Or contact his local post office and ask if the package was delivered. Maybe they can help.

Always keep your receipts. Saying you hate them is a poor excuse, sorry. Stash it in your wallet, or a drawer at home or something. Because you tossed it, you might be SOL.
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Old 10-21-05, 10:41 PM
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Holy crap what a post.

First of all dude, your attitude just sounds kinda fishy. First of all, the first red flag is " I put off shipping a couple days and lied to him".

How are you expecting people to side with you if THATS the case? That sounds really shady.

So the second shady thing is, you threw out the receipt or tracking number. Thats not so much shady, but just really really stupid. You screwed yourself.

If i was sending a $1000.00 item, and I have before, I G-DAMN sure would document every SINGLE piece of the paperwork along the way, and keep that in a safe place. If you send something really valuable, you need to send it FED EX with tracking number and insurance.

You have very little chance of getting your money back via paypal, but you probably deserve it that way.
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Old 10-21-05, 10:45 PM
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Unless you can somehow recover the tracking number, I don't see how you could recover it.
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Old 10-21-05, 11:11 PM
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You screwed with a guy paid you promptly. Just because he got worried about shelling over a grand, it doesn't give you the right to delay shipping.

Losing a tracking number is also unforgivable. You should have emailed him immediately after shipment with the tracking number. Then you would have had an email record of the tracking number for paypal since you tossed your receipt.

CloverClover, you are what's wrong with Ebay; poor communication, slow shipping, and lost tracking numbers. If you lose $1000 from this, that's some ebay karma for ya.

Last edited by Flay; 10-21-05 at 11:15 PM.
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Old 10-21-05, 11:21 PM
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I feel bad for you if you end up losing a grand, but if you're going to purposefully delay someone's package who's already pissed off at you and then about it, you better make dang sure you keep up with the tracking number.
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Old 10-21-05, 11:39 PM
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Where did you mail it from? If you mailed it from a small place, you might ask them what their current tracking number is, and go from there. Or send something to yourself with delivery confirmation, to get the current number.

I *think* that the delivery confirmation receipts are in numerical order, if you know what their current number is you can just start going backwards (or forwards) until you find the one you need. Will this be a pain in the butt? Sure, but you're about to lose $1,000, it's worth a shot.
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Old 10-22-05, 12:01 AM
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You kind of dug your own grave there. I just shipped off $500 worth of stuff today and you better believe I'm holding on to the tracking information. I also ship my stuff out ASAP, and don't dilly-dally about. Good luck, but like others said, if it doesnít work out, thereís a little karma for you.
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Old 10-22-05, 12:15 AM
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First mistake: accepting Paypal for such a high value item

Second mistake: losing the tracking number. Having proof of shipment, and shipping to a confirmed address are your only defenses against getting screwed by Paypal and the buyer (and even then, its not a sure thing)
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Old 10-22-05, 12:19 AM
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I think he was a monster first. The ebay auction ended on the day I left for my weekend trip, so I put it off a couple days until I got back. I'm pretty confrontational so we I come back to an inbox full of e-mails of paranoia and harsh words, I got offended... especially given my great track record. I believe in the end, we both committed monstrosities, but now he's taking the upper hand and being as harsh a monster as he can be.

I just hate receipts, it's one of those things where I always toss out a receipt after going to the grocery store or buying a candy bar, or mailing a package via media mail. My first instinct when they hand me a receipt is to toss it into the trash, and that's what occurred here, and I didn't think about it until I got home and checked my email. In hindsight it seems like the stupidest thing I could've done.

The guy used his friend's ebay account to bid on my auction but he has good feedback. He is an unverified pay pal user using a confirmed address. I will have to phone the USPS post office to see if they can go through the old transactions.

If I can't, I'm at his mercy... He has the upper hand. That's why I tried to make him feel bad by telling him how important this money was "for a personal crisis," I have to guilt him into giving it back. I just wrote him a long e-mail

"Listen, I don't want to have a war, I admit I wasn't as quick as I could be on shipping, but I had reason. I was going through a personal crisis at the time, my wallet was stolen, etc... At the end of the day we are just two individuals in the sea of ebay and it's time to move on. The bottom line is you received the computer, and I (initially) received the money. Why are you taking the money for yourself? Why do you feel that you deserve $1000, AND a g4 powerbook? All because I delayed on shipping? I won't leave you negative feedback if you don't leave me negative feedback. In fact, you can write me neutral feedback if you want, but do it with a positive spin.

I want you to do the right thing, and I understand why you would try to withhold the money from me. I would've done the same thing if I delayed shipping on myself. I have contacted Apple with the serial number of the computer I sent you. They will confirm if and when it is ever connected to the internet. If they confirm that it is being logged in at your WA location, I will inform the pay pal and my lawyer. And I say this with respect, I am not threatening you."

Not that I kept the cpu's serial number, but these are all white lies. I think it sounds pretty convincing. Ebay is one big mind game... Reminds me of my past few gf's when this sort of this would happen over breakfast pancakes...

Last edited by CloverClover; 10-22-05 at 12:23 AM.
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Old 10-22-05, 12:32 AM
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Serves you right. You should never get a tracking number again!

Your name isn't Earl, is it?
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Old 10-22-05, 12:38 AM
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This guy must be stupid to try to steal $1000 from someone when they have your address (or is it his firend's address?). People will take a trip over that much money.

I don't really sell many high priced items but what is a good payment service to use if Paypal isn't any good?
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Old 10-22-05, 12:38 AM
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1) The buyer ALWAYS has the upper hand

2) Respect the buyer (because of #1)

3) Large $$$ transactions should ALWAYS take priority in your life--cancel vacations if you have to or postpone the auction date until AFTER you get back from vacation.

4) You want the buyer to be absolutely satisfied.

From what I've read, you struck out on all 4 of the above. I've sold equipment on eBay for thousands of dollars, and this is my own personal motto.

I hate to say it, but you got what you deserved. You made some serious mistakes.

A few questions:

1) What does losing your wallet have to do with this situation?

2) Did you think a personal crisis was going to keep your buyer from making a complaint on a $1000 item?

3) The tone of your emails sound very manipulative, which is easily interpreted as dishonest. I don't think you'll find much sympathy here.
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Old 10-22-05, 12:39 AM
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It is possible they actually lost it in the mail. I mean we are talking about UPSP.
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Old 10-22-05, 12:39 AM
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Originally Posted by CloverClover
I think he was a monster first. The ebay auction ended on the day I left for my weekend trip, so I put it off a couple days until I got back.
Originally Posted by CloverClover
I sold my mac on e-bay and the buyer immediately paid via pay pal. I was out of town for the weekend and in the process lost my wallet... when I got back there were at least 10 e-mails in my in-box... initially agressive and blunt 'when will you ship' getting progressively meaner and paranoid 'Do you want me to phone the police?" This made me very defensive and angry so I put off shipping a couple days and lied to him that I was going through personal crisis and would get around to shipping his item later that week.
My personal experience is when people are trying to lie to make themselves look better after their initial story blows up in their face, their first story was the truth. You said first that you deliberately delayed shipping because you had a vengeful attitude towards the buyer.

And start saving receipts. I can't imagine you are very old to not have learned this lesson yet. Bummer you had to learn it on such a large ticket item but Pay Pal will NEVER side with you if you can't prove you shipped it with a tracking number. It's best to brush it off and forget about it.
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Old 10-22-05, 12:40 AM
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Originally Posted by Puzznic
This guy must be stupid to try to steal $1000 from someone when they have your address
It's the internet. Stupid people flock here like, um...
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Old 10-22-05, 12:57 AM
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I felt like he misbehaved so I punished him by putting off the shipping. I didn't want to give him respect when he deserved none. Perhaps you're right that the buyer is always right, but in my world the buyer is a prick if he's a prick.

You're right that my e-mail is manipulative, but you have to fight fire with fire. This guy is playing a game first, so I am taking him up to the challenge.

I think everyone here should side with me... I am not the bad guy, he's the bad guy. The end result and bottom line is, he received the item and is withholding my 1K. Forget about everything in between, yeah the receipt, the etc.... Forget about karma, my name is not earl (I'm more like that overweight guy from who couldn't see the picture in the magic eye). Or the guy who sprayed mace in his own face. In this case it looks like I sprayed mace in my own face. I do have his address so maybe I will drive to WA and pay him a visit... It'll be about a 2000 mile road trip, maybe I can visit the grave of Scatman Crothers while I'm at it (cross off that life goal, overwhelming 'to-do' list)

The wallet plays an important role that I initially left out of the story because I didn't want to bog it down with details. I lost my wallet so I had to wait for the credit card company to send me my new card. It probably contributed to my angry mood at the time when I said "I don't want to deal with this guy in this time of stress" and put off shipping his package. Part of my excuse to him was that I had to wait until the card came before I could send the package. It's not true, but in spirit it's true (who wants to rush off and do errands when your identity is gone?) It was at this point when he thought I was a scammer and etc....

Last edited by CloverClover; 10-22-05 at 01:00 AM.
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Old 10-22-05, 01:00 AM
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I think everyone here should side with me...
That will get your money back!

I do have his address so maybe I will drive to WA and pay him a visit...
Don't do anything illegal when you get there...
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Old 10-22-05, 01:02 AM
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I am definitely on your side as far as you getting ripped. Anything that you did was relatively minor and, at best, he deserved a small refund. Keeping both the computer and money is flat out grand theft.
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Old 10-22-05, 01:07 AM
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I think you enabled him to nail you bigtime by acting like you don't have a tracking #. You could have told him some "white" lie on why you don't have it for that moment, but you'll have it soon. By basically telling him you don't have it, he was able to get away with the perfect crime.
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Old 10-22-05, 01:09 AM
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Originally Posted by Puzznic

I don't really sell many high priced items but what is a good payment service to use if Paypal isn't any good?
Nothing is 100% safe these days, but for high priced items, I would prefer a USPS money order. I get the money order, I take it to the post office to cash when I send the item. They give me the cash, I send the item. If the post office refuses the money order for some reason, I don't send the item. (never happened to me yet, but it seems a bit more safe than other payment options).
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Old 10-22-05, 01:10 AM
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Is this the delivery confirmation number...

0304 0831 0002 8804 6563?
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Old 10-22-05, 01:11 AM
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I don't know, it seems like I'm getting sucked deeper and deeper into this huge lie, and everything I say is sucking me deeper and deeper... so I will come clean and admit that this story is false... I'm not a compulsive liar, I mean I guess I 'play one on TV' because I lied a lot in my story, but in truth there's no truth , I'm sorry... I'm bored, I can't talk my way out of this. There's some truth to this masterpiece, I mean in this false situation it is becoming real and I'm actually getting genuinely defensive in my arguments despite the lie. I mean I got negative feedback from someone for no reason, and I left negative feedback in response... And I did sell a G4 powerbook on ebay, but he was dissatisfied with my item so I gave him a (generous) 1/3 a refund and let him keep the item.

I was just sitting at home one night (on this night) and tried to come up with strange loopholes / e-bay paradoxes to get stuck in, and couldn't think of a way to get out of this hypothetical situation. Now that this thread has run its course it should probably be locked. It's more of a scientific experiment than attempt at making friends or

To be perfectly honest I saw that there were a few threads with the thread titles that read "_____ is getting out of hand," so the situation came from a desire to contribute to the climate of "getting out of hand" and that's how this came to be. I hope I'm not banned for this, maybe the martyr in me would get some kind of satisfaction from it... but I don't know, I think I came clean because we all had such a great discussion and we were getting deeper and deeper into the lie, so I started to feel like there was no more potential discussion to be had, and it was time to tell you my true intention (which is a sort of hybrid scientific experiment / contribution to the Other forum tradition of threads that are 'getting out of hand.') You suckers!!!!!!
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Old 10-22-05, 01:14 AM
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Wow. Okaaaay then.
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