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Can Ebay/Paypal take money from my bank account?

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Can Ebay/Paypal take money from my bank account?

Old 10-07-05, 08:19 PM
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Can Ebay/Paypal take money from my bank account?

I searched to see if anything was posted about this and didn't find anything.

Ebay informed me today, by canceling 5 auctions rather than asking me to change them, that I can no longer restrict people who use paypal from using credit cards.

This is terribly unfair. They say it's confusing for buyers because they see the Visa logo and don't understand why they can't use it. Yet, rather than make me take credit cards, they could simply offer several options through paypal where the potential buyer saw a logo that didn't have the Visa or any other credit card logo.

I sell no more than 20 items a month. Ebay charges me to list, they get part of my sales, and now they also get part of the payment. That's just not fair. My only choice would be to increase shipping, but that's not fair to the buyer and it drives people away. Also, I've noticed that people tend to sell their item a bit higher when they take credit cards. If I just go to accepting money orders and cashiers checks or even bidpay, I know I won't get as many bids.

My biggest problem with this isn't getting hosed by Ebay/Paypal for all those fees. The problem is chargebacks. People can, from what I've read, just e-mail paypal or call them, claim they never got their item, and paypal will take your money and freeze your account with no protection to the seller at all. Is that true? How can any seller operate that way?

But do they mean they can go into your paypal account and take the money (if any money is there) or can they actually go to your bank account and take it? Wouldn't that be illegal? If my paypal account is the source of accepting the credit cards and then I transfer that money to my bank, can they actually go all the way to my bank if someone makes a chargeback to THEM? Or if they money is already transferred to your bank, will they only be able to freeze your paypal account?

For example, say I sell $50 worth of used dvds in October and transfer that money to my bank. Someone 3 months laters claims they never got their $6 item which is already out of my now empty paypal account. Will they be able to take that money from me directly? Do they have the right to debit my bank account, even though the credit card transaction went through them?

If they were going to force people to accept credit cards, will all the fees they are piling on sellers, they should make buyers agree to delivery confirmation on any item a seller has to accept via credit card. That should be one type of option for the seller to have listed with their auction. Delivery confirmation is less than 40 cents and it's worth it for both parties, but Ebay only seems interested in screwing people for as long as they can get away with it.

But can they actually take money out of my bank account, since my bank account had nothing to do with the credit card transaction in the first place? If they can't, I'll just have to take my chances and lose more money to fees. There is no alternative.

I wonder if it would be against Ebay's rules to post something in your item desription like, Sorry, but I've had to increase my postage and handling fees because of Ebay's policy to force me to accept credit cards if I use paypal?
Old 10-07-05, 08:27 PM
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I was under the impression PayPal can't take money out of your bank account anymore due to that big lawsuit a while back. However, they will just keep your PayPal balance in the negative.

In other words, a guy says he never received his package (which was $500). PayPal then applies a chargeback to your account for $500. If you only have a $15 balance, your account will be $485 in the negative.
Old 10-07-05, 08:28 PM
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I don't keep funds in my paypal account. When I pay via paypal, paypal takes money out of my bank account.
Old 10-07-05, 08:40 PM
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Yes, they can take money out when you as a buyer pay for something. But I was under the impression that as a seller, PayPal cannot take money out of your bank account.
Old 10-07-05, 08:44 PM
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http://www.paypal.com/cgi-bin/webscr...cy_spp-outside

Here yah go.

If the seller loses a Buyer Claim or a chargeback dispute and does not qualify for the Seller Protection Policy, the seller will owe PayPal for the amount of the reversed transaction. In the case of a chargeback, sellers who do not meet the requirements of the Seller Protection Policy will also owe a $10.00 USD chargeback fee. PayPal will seek to recover the funds from sellers by debiting their PayPal balance. If there are not sufficient funds in the sellerís PayPal balance, sellers have a choice of reimbursing PayPal by funding their PayPal account or by other means as described in the Payments (Sending, Receiving, and Withdrawals) Policy.
Old 10-07-05, 08:47 PM
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Originally Posted by DVD Polizei
I was under the impression PayPal can't take money out of your bank account anymore due to that big lawsuit a while back. However, they will just keep your PayPal balance in the negative.

In other words, a guy says he never received his package (which was $500). PayPal then applies a chargeback to your account for $500. If you only have a $15 balance, your account will be $485 in the negative.
I'm dealing with $8-$15 kinds of sales, but, all the need is someone to make an accusation and they generate a charge-back?

If that's all it takes, what would keep people from doing this all the time?

Well, at least if they can't get into my bank account, I'll try this. I will bump up shipping maybe 30 cents and hope people don't just try and screw me.

I have had mostly good experiences with over 300 item sold, but they ones that have been bad have been from people who claim they haven't received something.

I offer insurance and I don't charge anymore for it, than the USPS charges me. I'm not a business and I can't afford to send people their money back because they say they didn't get something. People can copy dvds or cds relatively easily and then put a scatch on the dvd and ask for a return.

I check all my dvds-cds before listing and never sell something with a scratch. I also take a soft piece of tissue and tape it over the dvd or cd in it's case (like a bra), so I know it won't pop out during shipping. I offer insurance and do everything I can and now they punish me more by taking away more of the profit.

It sure seems like a scam that Ebay owns Paypal and they now charge the little guy so much with little protection. I bet I could even offer to levels of shipping charges (for credit cards users and for non credit card users). Why shouldn't a seller be able to offer a discount to those who buy their items a certain way? There is no way for me to encourage bidders to use money orders, e-checks, instant transfers or transfer from existing paypal balances, so I bet the HUGE majority of winners will be credit cards users and I can only hope my profits go up a $1 or so for each auction from bidders who stayed away from my auctions because I didn't take credit cards to negate the new fees that I'm forced to accept.
Old 10-07-05, 08:50 PM
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eBay will even cancel your auction if you mention ways of bypassing PayPal fees.

But I would seriously get a different bank account, just to be sure. You never know what could happen. With electronic powers of businesses you could be fucked regardless of the laws.

I've never had any really terrible situations, and as you said, be sure to get insurance, and make it CLEAR in your auctions that the buyer is responsible in filing a claim with the shipping company for reimbursement.
Old 10-07-05, 08:58 PM
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Originally Posted by DVD Polizei
There are so many things wrong with that, I won't even get into it all.

But if you read all the way down, it basically says the seller HAS to provide a tracking number to have any chance at winning a dispute.

Delivery confirmation is another 40 cents.

I usually sell my items for $2.99 and that's including a bubble mailer and the practice of taping carefully the soft tissue to ensure the dvd/cd doesn't pop out.

To make the shipping reflect all the charges, I'd have to add about $1.50 and then I'm one of those jerks who charges an obscene amount for shipping.

And I bet they wouldn't let me put in words in MY auction rules that says the buyer is responsible for being qualified for seller protection and if they're not the item will be sold to another bidder or relisted.

They basically are saying they expect me to buy delivery confirmation, but they don't want to just come right out and say it.
Old 10-07-05, 09:07 PM
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Originally Posted by DVD Polizei
eBay will even cancel your auction if you mention ways of bypassing PayPal fees.

But I would seriously get a different bank account, just to be sure. You never know what could happen. With electronic powers of businesses you could be fucked regardless of the laws.

I've never had any really terrible situations, and as you said, be sure to get insurance, and make it CLEAR in your auctions that the buyer is responsible in filing a claim with the shipping company for reimbursement.
Insurance is like another $1.30 and I offer it, but the buyers don't pay for it 99% of the time. In my opinion, that's the risk THEY take. Why is it all on the seller? If I am willing to insure the item and someone refuses it, then it's no longer my problem if I can even show the receipt that the item was shipped, which you get with the zip code as well.

What do you mean get a different bank account? As long as you have ANY bank account listed with them and you need one to get paid, they can potentially go after that account.

Can I even put in my auction rules this statement?

By bidding on this item you agree that if you refuse to buy insurance or delivery confirmation, I will not be held responsible against any claim of non-delivery or damage.

Would that be allowed or would it stand up? Does anyone know of any wording that they've used or know that can be used to protect the seller against false claims?

Last edited by dolphinboy; 10-07-05 at 09:14 PM.
Old 10-07-05, 09:19 PM
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Originally Posted by dolphinboy
I'm dealing with $8-$15 kinds of sales, but, all the need is someone to make an accusation and they generate a charge-back?

If that's all it takes, what would keep people from doing this all the time?
Ship using a tracking number on every package, as the PayPal Seller Protection Policy states. Read it, you already agreed to it!
Old 10-07-05, 09:37 PM
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Originally Posted by CPT
Ship using a tracking number on every package, as the PayPal Seller Protection Policy states. Read it, you already agreed to it!
Can I put in my auction rules something that gives the bidder the choice?

I know most people buying something for $6, don't want to pay $5 for shipping.

So if I have a disclaimer in my auctions where I offer my price for shipping, offer a price for delivery confirmation and insurance (the exact charge USPS charges me-no profit for me) and they elect to not get it and accept the risk of loss, would I still be safe?

I mean, if it states clearly in the terms of the auctions that by placing a bid on the auction you must agree to the terms (and assuming the terms don't break any rules or laws), don't the bidders have to be held responsible as adults just like the sellers?

I just typed something up really quick to attach to my auctions...would it hold up and, if not, why not?


By placing a bid on this item you agree that if you don't purchase either delivery confirmation or insurance (which are both offered at the exact cost the USPS charges me), that you will not hold the seller responsible for loss or damage. I could just grossly inflate my shipping costs like so many others, but I want to give my buyers the option of choosing for themselves what they want to do. Also, if paying by credit card, you must have a confirmed paypal address for me to accept the funds. If payment is denied, you have 24 hours to make arrangements for an alternate method of payment or the item you've won will no longer be held for you.
Old 10-07-05, 09:43 PM
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Delivery confirmation is what... 40 cents? I usually count it as a cost of doing business.
Old 10-07-05, 09:51 PM
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Originally Posted by WildcatLH
Delivery confirmation is what... 40 cents? I usually count it as a cost of doing business.
It's 55 cents; I'm selling items that go for around $8. It's 35 cents to list, the get % of my sale, then, if payer uses a credit card they get another portion of my sale and another 30 cents.

If you're selling items that sell for small amounts, that's a lot to count as the "cost of doing business."

All I'm trying to do is appeal to the widest variety of people and offer them choices.

I don't want to charge people $4-$5 for shipping, which a lot of people do.

So, why can't I just offer them a standard charge that is low and offer confirmation and insurance and tell them that if they decline either, I'm not responsible? They either get very low shipping or can choose more for more security and higher shipping.

Could I even offer a shipping discount to those who pay by money order or would that ALSO not be allowed.
Old 10-07-05, 09:59 PM
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Originally Posted by DVD Polizei
I was under the impression PayPal can't take money out of your bank account anymore due to that big lawsuit a while back.
I missed that. What was happening? Was Paypal automatically deducting charge-backs from peoples accounts?
Old 10-07-05, 10:51 PM
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Yes, they were. Now they just keep the Seller's PayPal account in the negative if you don't have enough to cover the balance. Happened with a friend of mine who sold a camera to a guy in Russia (don't even ask--I already bitched at the guy, telling how insanely retarded he was.)

dolphinboy,

By bidding on this item you agree that if you refuse to buy insurance or delivery confirmation, I will not be held responsible against any claim of non-delivery or damage.

You can put that in your auction, but I seriously doubt eBay or Paypal will take that into account. You could always try emailing eBay and see what they say. I would just opt for the delivery confirmation and the insurance anyway.

But since you only deal with these particular transactions, you should be just fine doing what you're doing now. However, you'll have to make a determination of how much money you're actually saving by not having insurance and delivery confirmation versus people who say they didn't get the package.
Old 10-07-05, 11:02 PM
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http://www.paypalsucks.com/

http://www.settlement4onlinepayments.com/


I understand why people use paypal, I *had* an account linked to my credit card at one point but not anymore. No way in hell I would give an organization like paypal my checking account information. Maybe setup another account somewhere with very little money in it if I ever HAD to use this service, but doubtful.
Old 10-07-05, 11:15 PM
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Originally Posted by dolphinboy
Can I put in my auction rules something that gives the bidder the choice?
I know most people buying something for $6, don't want to pay $5 for shipping.

So if I have a disclaimer in my auctions where I offer my price for shipping, offer a price for delivery confirmation and insurance (the exact charge USPS charges me-no profit for me) and they elect to not get it and accept the risk of loss, would I still be safe?

I mean, if it states clearly in the terms of the auctions that by placing a bid on the auction you must agree to the terms (and assuming the terms don't break any rules or laws), don't the bidders have to be held responsible as adults just like the sellers?

I just typed something up really quick to attach to my auctions...would it hold up and, if not, why not?


By placing a bid on this item you agree that if you don't purchase either delivery confirmation or insurance (which are both offered at the exact cost the USPS charges me), that you will not hold the seller responsible for loss or damage. I could just grossly inflate my shipping costs like so many others, but I want to give my buyers the option of choosing for themselves what they want to do. Also, if paying by credit card, you must have a confirmed paypal address for me to accept the funds. If payment is denied, you have 24 hours to make arrangements for an alternate method of payment or the item you've won will no longer be held for you.
Everything I quoted in small print is your opinion, and doesn't matter to EBay, PayPal, or credit card companies.

To answer your first question, no. You can put whatever you want in your auction, but you can't tell people that bidding negates PP's SPP. If you did, it wouldn't mean a thing. You can't charge more for accepting PP, the only thing you can do is set your S&H fee to cover your costs.

Ship every item with Delivery Confirmation, no exception. It's the only way to prove delivery. Anything over $250 use Signature Confirmation. How much time did you spend thinking of your post and typing it? Delivery Confirmation is cheaper. PP sucks and you have to protect yourself. Or you can do what you describe above, and invite scammers to get the item and their money back. Again: Read PP's SPP and follow it. You already agreed to it.
Old 10-07-05, 11:53 PM
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Originally Posted by 4KRG
http://www.paypalsucks.com/

http://www.settlement4onlinepayments.com/


I understand why people use paypal, I *had* an account linked to my credit card at one point but not anymore. No way in hell I would give an organization like paypal my checking account information. Maybe setup another account somewhere with very little money in it if I ever HAD to use this service, but doubtful.
I understand why people are worried about using Paypal, but I've had something like 65-75 transactions with them as both a buyer and seller and have never had a problem. If I want to buy and sell on ebay, Paypal is what I'm going to use.
Old 10-08-05, 01:13 PM
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You don't have to pay the .40 for delivery confirmation if you print your postage from the USPS website.

It's free that way.

But, delivery confirmation doesn't protect you from chargebacks. You have to have a signature receipt to do that.

Dude, ebay is totally not worth the trouble at 8-10 bucks an auction. Take it from me, someone who has sold thousands of items on ebay. I might do two or three auctions a year now. I slowed down a couple of years ago when ebay/paypal merged, raised fees, and added rule after rule.

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