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ONE AND ONLY Hurricane Katrina thread pt2 [merged]

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ONE AND ONLY Hurricane Katrina thread pt2 [merged]

Old 08-31-05, 12:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Y2K Falcon
Not to be trollish, but if the building was starting to fail, and there was a dog to the left, and a human to the right, I don't think they would go to the left "because animals > humans", or even go 50%/50%.
Probably true, but I bet most any firefighter would go back in for the animal after, or send in one of his comrades for the animal.


Originally Posted by Y2K Falcon
But I agree that people should do everything they can for humans and animals.

Except the gators holding people hostage in their cars.

Gator carjackers

Hey! Gators gotta eat too.
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Old 08-31-05, 12:44 PM
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Couple comments...

1) That Lucy Lawless story is classic, perfect for the Daily Show. I mean, who the fuck cares? This country has serious celebrity issues sometimes.

2) The looting is very disconcerting. The whole racial thing comes into play, but the fact of the matter is these people are starving (some for cigarettes and beer obviously), so the states and the fed gov't have a job to do by feeding and helping people so this stops. Makes our country look pretty bad (these images are shown all around the world).
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Old 08-31-05, 12:45 PM
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This is a tad absurd. While I agree that animals are important, there is no reason that someone's time should be wasted rescuing an animal right now when it could be spent rescuing a human being. If animals had the mental and physical ability to loot, don't tell me they wouldn't because animals don't have a conscience. Get some respect for your fellow humans before crying about the animals.
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Old 08-31-05, 12:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Phil L.
Probably true, but I bet most any firefighter would go back in for the animal after, or send in one of his comrades for the animal.
Exactly. Not to mention, we're talking about numerous rescuers and agencies. If 2 our of 40 are helping animals more than humans it's hardly something to be shocked about.
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Old 08-31-05, 12:48 PM
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Originally Posted by The World is Square
This is a tad absurd. While I agree that animals are important, there is no reason that someone's time should be wasted rescuing an animal right now when it could be spent rescuing a human being. If animals had the mental and physical ability to loot, don't tell me they wouldn't because animals don't have a conscience. Get some respect for your fellow humans before crying about the animals.
Yes sir. Please send me a detailed set of instructions on how I should feel, what I should do and where my prioirties should lie. I don't want to cry about the wrong thing.
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Old 08-31-05, 12:52 PM
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Back on topic!

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20050831/...her_katrina_dc

New Orleans in chaos, refugees to get Texas shelter By Rick Wilking
34 minutes ago



NEW ORLEANS (Reuters) - About 23,000 refugees stuck at the New Orleans Superdome arena after Hurricane Katrina flooded the city will be given shelter in Houston, Texas Gov. Rick Perry said on Wednesday, as looters and rising floodwaters sowed chaos in the devastated Louisiana city.

Perry told a news conference he would allow the refugees to shelter in the Houston Astrodome after neighboring Louisiana Gov. Kathleen Blanco asked for help.

He expected to see people arriving from New Orleans, about 350 miles away, in the next 24 hours, aboard some 500 buses provided by federal emergency officials.

In New Orleans, engineers tried to plug a leaking levee that let lake water pour into the city two days after Katrina struck the U.S. Gulf Coast. People left stranded were running out of food and water and growing desperate as authorities tried to decide how to get them out.

"We've sent buses in. We will be either loading them by boat, helicopter, anything that is necessary," Blanco told ABC's "Good Morning America."

Katrina's death toll was more than 100 and expected to rise much higher.

The U.S. Energy Department said it would release oil from a strategic reserve to offset losses in the Gulf of Mexico, where the storm had shut down production. U.S. crude-oil prices eased below $70 per barrel on the news, but gasoline futures prices jumped by about 20 cents per gallon, to $2.67.

Katrina struck Louisiana with 140 mph (224 kph) winds, while slamming into the coasts of neighboring Mississippi, Alabama and western Florida.

A 30-foot (10-meter) storm surge in Mississippi wiped away 90 percent of the buildings along the coast at Biloxi and Gulfport.

At least 110 people died in Mississippi. "We're just estimating, but the number could go double or triple from what we're talking about now," a civil defense director told the Jackson, Mississippi, Clarion Ledger.

Biloxi, Mississippi, spokesman Vincent Creel earlier said the death toll would be "in the hundreds."

U.S. Sen. Mary Landrieu (news, bio, voting record) told reporters she had heard at least 50 to 100 people were dead in New Orleans.

A million people fled the New Orleans area before Katrina arrived. But former Mayor Sidney Barthelemy estimated 80,000 were trapped in the flooded city and urged President Bush to send more troops.

"We have to send the army to stop this or we will lose New Orleans and we will lose 80,000 people," Barthelemy told CNN. "If we can spend the monies that we are spending to help the people in Iraq, then we can do the same thing for New Orleans."

The U.S. military was sending a hospital ship and two helicopter-carriers to assist two other Navy ships already conducting rescues in the area. Governors of the afflicted states mobilized 8,000 National Guard troops.

Amid the looting, gun-toting citizens took to the streets in some areas to try to restore order in New Orleans. Where it was still dry, some store owners sat in front of their businesses, guns in hand.

One had put up a sign reading: "You loot, I shoot."

Louisiana officials said 3,000 people had been rescued, but many more waited to be picked up in boats that cruised flooded streets or helicopters that buzzed overhead.

"I'm alive. I'm alive," shouted a joyous woman as she was ferried from a home nearly swallowed by the flood.

BODIES FLOATING

Rescue teams busy saving people left bodies floating in the high waters.

Looting erupted as people broke into stores to grab supplies, television sets, jewelry, clothes and computers.

"It's a lot of chaos right now," Louisiana state police Director H.L. Whitehorn said.

New Orleans at first appeared to have received a glancing blow from Katrina, but the raging waters of Lake Pontchartrain tore holes in the levees that protect the low-lying city, then slowly filled it up.

Mayor Ray Nagin said 80 percent of the city was submerged in water that was in places 20 feet deep.

Attempts failed on Tuesday to plug a 200-foot gap (60-meter-) in the levee system with 3,000-pound (1,360-kg) sandbags and concrete barriers, but officials said they would keep trying.

"The National Guard has been dropping sandbags into it, but it's like dropping it into a black hole," Blanco said.

The lake should return to normal levels within about 36 hours, and the water now flooding New Orleans would begin to drain, said U.S. Army Corps of Engineers senior project engineer Al Naomi.

CARJACKINGS

He said the historic French Quarter, the main draw for New Orleans' huge tourist industry, should escape with only minor flooding because it sits 5 feet above sea level.

But Nagin estimated it would be 12 to 16 weeks before residents could return. The floods knocked out electricity, contaminated the water supply and cut off most highway routes into New Orleans.

In hard-hit Jefferson Parish, parish president Aaron Broussard said, "Jefferson Parish as we knew it is gone forever."

Police said there were dozens of carjackings overnight, by desperate survivors trying to leave town or obtain supplies. Somebody fired at a rescue helicopter Tuesday night, forcing its crew to abandon efforts to evacuate patients from a hospital, a state official said.

Authorities were so intent on rescuing flood victims that at first they let the looting go unstopped, Nagin said.

But he told CNN the situation had escalated and authorities were "bringing it under control as we speak."

He said 3,500 National Guard troops were being sent to New Orleans. Louisiana state police were sending 40 troopers and two armored personnel carriers.

Authorities sought to cope with a growing number homeless evacuees. Conditions had deteriorated in the Superdome, which had no electricity and holes in the roof caused by the storm.

Katrina knocked out electricity to about 2.3 million customers, or nearly 5 million people, in four states, utility companies said. Restoring power could take weeks, they warned.

U.S. Energy Secretary Samuel Bodman said oil from the Strategic Petroleum Reserve could be provided to an unnamed oil refining company as early as Thursday.

(Additional reporting by Paul Simao in Mobile, Alabama)


I saw a picture of the bolded this morning on the news. It's about 24 hours too late. They should have prepared these ships before the hurricane hit and they should have been in the water as soon as it was safe to be in the area. A 24 hour delay will have deadly consequences for those in the affected areas.

Chris
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Old 08-31-05, 12:53 PM
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Originally Posted by The World is Square
This is a tad absurd. While I agree that animals are important, there is no reason that someone's time should be wasted rescuing an animal right now when it could be spent rescuing a human being. If animals had the mental and physical ability to loot, don't tell me they wouldn't because animals don't have a conscience. Get some respect for your fellow humans before crying about the animals.
Noone's saying that all of the rescue efforts should be equally divided amongst humans and animals. As long as someone is looking out for them, it's good enough. I'm sure there are people who do this sort of thing.
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Old 08-31-05, 12:59 PM
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Police said there were dozens of carjackings overnight, by desperate survivors trying to leave town or obtain supplies. Somebody fired at a rescue helicopter Tuesday night, forcing its crew to abandon efforts to evacuate patients from a hospital, a state official said.
Fucking hood rats.
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Old 08-31-05, 01:04 PM
  #184  
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I'm sure most of the animals are dead anyway. How long can a dog or a cat tread water? They are either dead or some are with their owners trapped in their houses or people took their animals with them as they left.
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Old 08-31-05, 01:09 PM
  #185  
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Originally Posted by Gil Jawetz
Yes sir. Please send me a detailed set of instructions on how I should feel, what I should do and where my prioirties should lie. I don't want to cry about the wrong thing.

I totally agree. I hate it when people (esp. people you don't even know) try to tell you how to feel about certain situations. I am an animal lover, and although I will donate to the "human" charities, I am thankful that others are thinking of our four legged friends
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Old 08-31-05, 01:12 PM
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Let me put it another way.

If a rescuer is rowing along in a boat and on one side of him sees a dog paddling furiously to stay afloat, and on the other side sees a person doing the same, I don't have a problem with a decision to go for the human first, then the dog second. Even if it means that by then the dog has been swept too farther along and now can not be rescued. Well so be it. This is an extremely tough situation and some hard decisions are going to have to be made, and there will be losses.

If on the other hand, the rescuer is paddling along and sees a dog struggling in the water, and no humans visible in the area at all...to make an intentional decision to not attempt to pull the dog into the boat cause well... it's just an animal, boarders on the cruel and inhumane in my view.
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Old 08-31-05, 01:15 PM
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Originally Posted by El Scorcho
Fucking hood rats.
I was at my parents' last night watching footage of the looters w/ my dad and he said, "and the only thing people will see is the color of their skin." It's sad, but true - especially around here.
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Old 08-31-05, 01:31 PM
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Here is a little history on New Orleans

http://news.yahoo.com/s/latimests/20...stragicparadox

New Orleans' Tragic Paradox
By Kevin Sack Times Staff Writer

Wed Aug 31, 7:55 AM ET

In 1718, French colonist Jean Baptiste Le Moyne de Bienville ignored his engineers' warnings about the hazards of flooding and mapped a settlement in a pinch of swampland between the mouth of the Mississippi River, the Gulf of Mexico and a massive lake to the north.

Ever since, the water has sustained New Orleans and perpetually threatened it. Somehow, until this week, the mystique of the water had always washed away the foreboding of disaster, as if carrying the city's worries downstream. That was true even early Tuesday morning, when Hurricane Katrina's last-minute veer to the east convinced many residents they had once again eluded the Fates.

But when the rainfall brought by Katrina breached levees and overwhelmed the city's pumping stations, the catastrophic consequences of Bienville's miscalculation could no longer be ignored.

New Orleans, a city that has struggled to keep its head above water, physically and economically, is now a city submerged.

City officials estimated that 80% of the town was under standing water Tuesday, with some areas beneath as much as 20 feet. Water at times coursed through the French Quarter, one of the highest points in a city that is largely below sea level.

In broad swaths, the flooding submerged low-lying neighborhoods up to the rooftops and left one of America's most enchanting cities a sodden ruin.

For locals, it is a cruel paradox. The water that has given New Orleans its very life its commerce, its cuisine, even the meandering flow of its daily pace has now rendered their beloved city almost unrecognizable.

The charming quirks of its geography like the practice of entombing the dead aboveground because high water tables make burial a short-term proposition may no longer seem so charming. The water, cherished by Bienville for its potential to open the region to commerce, has now all but strangled access. Bridges and causeways are shredded, and city streets are buried in debris.

"The river gives and the river basically takes away," said novelist Richard Ford, who lived in New Orleans until last year. "There really isn't a vocabulary that I have access to that describes this. And as always, it's the least able to recover from this disaster who will suffer most intensely."

Ford, like other New Orleans devotees, said it was a facet of the city's famed insularity that residents managed to avert their attention from impending disaster.

"If you live in New Orleans," he said, "you've decided that whatever it is about that city that you like is more important than whatever anxiety you feel."

Curtis Wilkie, an author and journalism professor who has lived in the French Quarter for 12 years, said he had previously found a sense of comfort in the water around him.

"It's always been part of the attraction of New Orleans the river and the lake and the Gulf," he said. "Whatever peril there was, it was outweighed by the charm of the city. But there's no city in America that has quite the relationship with water that we do. And everybody knew that this was a potential disaster."

Indeed, centuries after Bienville, geographers and engineers have been warning with increasing alarm that a storm like Katrina could devastate a region of 1.3 million people, leaving tens of thousands dead or homeless.

The water, after all, is everywhere. Lake Pontchartrain, just north of the city center, is 300 square miles and is crossed by a 24-mile causeway, the longest over-water bridge in the world. The Mississippi River pushes 300,000 cubic feet of water past the city every second, at depths that average 90 feet.

There is virtually no major route into the city that does not traverse vast expanses of brackish blue. The Port of New Orleans is one of the country's busiest, with more than 6,000 vessels passing the city annually.

Offshore oil is another economic stimulant, as are fishing and aquaculture. Much of the city's $5-billion convention and tourism industry is tied to the riverfront, with its Riverwalk Marketplace, aquarium and dockside paddle wheelers.

A Category 4 or Category 5 storm, geologists long theorized, would exploit the eroding Louisiana coastline and the gradual settling of the city's earthen foundation, and compromise the more than 500 miles of levees and floodwalls holding back the river and lake. Armed with computer models, they predicted that hundreds of years of engineering would make little difference.

Experts have recommended replenishing the more than 1 million acres of coastal marshland that have vanished into the sea since 1930, largely the result of human intrusion. A study panel concluded the cost could top $14 billion.

Other proposals have included rebuilding barrier islands, erecting more levees and restricting the flow of water into channels and canals. A Louisiana State University professor even proposed building a two-story wall with floodgates to secure the southern part of the city, saying the walled zone could serve as a municipal refuge in a killer storm.

The New Orleans diaspora the expatriates who claim the city as their own years after leaving worried Tuesday that the receding floodwaters would reveal a ghastly horror. They expect numerous unreported deaths and the utter destruction of an already aged housing stock that has been weakened by infestations of Formosan termites.

"What breaks your heart is the city has so many poor people who live in old, deteriorated, substandard housing and they have so little and what little they have they've lost," said Michael L. Lomax, president of the United Negro College Fund, who spent seven years in New Orleans as president of Dillard University. "These are people who stayed because they couldn't get out, because they didn't have a car."

John M. Barry, a part-time New Orleans resident and the author of "Rising Tide: The Great Mississippi Flood of 1927 and How It Changed America," spent the day in his Washington office, fielding e-mails from neighbors who were watching the water rise near their French Quarter houses. "It's like watching not only your life, but the lives of everything you've ever been involved in, just floating away," he said.

Barry said that like the devastating 1927 flood, which killed more than 200, Katrina would be remembered as a natural disaster made worse by man. "The most obvious lesson," he said, "is that you've got to be alert to unintended consequences."

The refusal to build spillways and reservoirs exacerbated the effects of the 1927 flood just as coastal erosion and the blazing of shipping canals presumably contributed to Katrina's destruction, he said. "If a worse case develops, this will come as close to wiping out a major American city as has ever happened."

Novelist Ford joined others in questioning whether New Orleans could ever regain its lightness of being, its sense that come what may, the good times would roll. When impending disaster was only theoretical, the city seemed to accept that though the end might be near, little could be done to forestall it.

"That's the structure of living in New Orleans," he said. "People feel that the place is doomed at some point, but they're going to stay. It's just a way of dealing with the end that's different from other ways of dealing with the end."


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Old 08-31-05, 01:33 PM
  #189  
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CNN:
>
BREAKING NEWS

New Orleans mayor says Katrina killed hundreds -- maybe thousands -- of people in city, Associated Press reports. More soon.
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Old 08-31-05, 01:37 PM
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I'm also watching ABC 7 news in Los Angeles and they say the mayor of New Orleans is saying that hundreds, but more likely thousands have died in New Orleans.

And that is not counting those who will probably die from the diseases that are just starting to crop up.

It will probably be a month before the real numbers are known.

I wonder if the number of the dead will surpass those killed on Sept 11th, which is offically at 2,752 according to this http://www.cnn.com/2003/US/Northeast...ths/index.html newstory?

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Old 08-31-05, 01:37 PM
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BREAKING NEWS

New Orleans mayor says Katrina killed hundreds -- maybe thousands -- of people in city,
Breaking news? Did they just now realize this?
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Old 08-31-05, 01:37 PM
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Originally Posted by B.A.
I was at my parents' last night watching footage of the looters w/ my dad and he said, "and the only thing people will see is the color of their skin." It's sad, but true - especially around here.
Regardless of who specifically seems to be doing the looting, I could see even myself, if there was a store with water and food, and maybe even a dry pair of shoes available, and I really needed these things to live, I would take them I think. Especially if there was no one to pay (and I would have cash on me) but I would do it with the idea that even if it was months later, I would remember and try to go back and pay the owners for what I took if they got their business running again.

But...what I can't see is taking stuff like DVD players, sports jerseys, and jewelry. That makes (anyone) nothing more then a low life, scumbag criminal.
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Old 08-31-05, 01:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Phil L.
But...what I can't see is taking stuff like DVD players, sports jerseys, and jewelry. That makes (anyone) nothing more then a low life, scumbag criminal.
Obviously they need to stock up on the gold/diamond teeth to help chew through debris.
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Old 08-31-05, 01:44 PM
  #194  
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This is just so sad. I'm going to give some money to the Humane Society this week and hope that it helps. I feel really useless here and wish I could do more to help.
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Old 08-31-05, 01:46 PM
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Well, about the looting, I'm sure it's widespread, the criminals and the poverty, not the flood risk was what kept me away from New Orleans. But consider that most of the NOPD officers are black, and the cop who was shot in the head was probably black as well.
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Old 08-31-05, 01:48 PM
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I have always wanted to visit New Orleans. Looks like it is gone now.
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Old 08-31-05, 01:51 PM
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Originally Posted by mrpayroll
I wonder if the number of the dead will surpass those killed on Sept 11th, which is offically at 2,752 according to this http://www.cnn.com/2003/US/Northeast...ths/index.html newstory?
I think it depends on how many people got out of dodge.
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Old 08-31-05, 01:52 PM
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New Orleans isn't gone, but it definitely will never be the same.

Hey if I was starving to death, I'd loot for some food and water too. But these people, most black, stealing TV's and computers have serious issues. Pretty ridiculous to hear/see that.

Word from reliable sources state the death toll will be in the tens of thousands, maybe in N.O. alone. I had heard this from people yesterday but didn't believe it. I think we're all in for a shock when the final numbers come in, although it is irrelevant at this point.
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Old 08-31-05, 02:00 PM
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why does CNN keep asking for people to email them their pictures and stories.

I'm sure people with no electricity and are clinging for their lives on a roof will have no problem emailing shit.
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Old 08-31-05, 02:01 PM
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http://www.wdsu.com/video/4907831/detail.html continues to have excellent streaming coverage.
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