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Why do I suck at Cash Ring Games

Old 08-18-05, 10:20 AM
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Why do I suck at Cash Ring Games

So, I am not a bad poker player and still learning a lot. I find myself to understand the basics and fundamentals pretty well. Anytime I play in a S&G or a MTT, I do fairly well. However, if I just sit down at a table online with my bankroll, I usually never come out on top.

I do win sometimes but no matter how much I win, its gone shortly after. The bad thing is I think I play pretty tight myself so it's not like I am calling or betting with junk. It does not take me much to get put on tilt. Like last week I lost $30 in about an hour at the $.10/.25 tables. I lost a K high flush to an A high flush, I lost 2 pair to another 2 pair with a bigger kicker and the hand that hurt most of all, I had pocket queens and ran into pocket Kings. I know thats just bad timing and luck, but for the most part I lose a lot during these games.

Anytime I deposit money into Pokerstars, I vow to myself that I am only going to pay sit and gos and tournaments and not bother sitting at a table since I am only going to lose.

During s&g and tourneys, I am a tight/aggressive player and play the same way online as I do on homegames which I do really well on.

Any advice?
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Old 08-18-05, 10:29 AM
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I have the exact same issue. I finish in the money 40-50% of the time in SnG's and about 25% in 3 table MTT but I don't come out ahead in cash games. Maybe more patience on hands is needed? Was there 4 to the flush out on the board when you lost? What was the situation with the pairs?
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Old 08-18-05, 10:55 AM
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Its definitely a different between cash ring games and SnG's. If you lose on a SnG, you usually have played for a long time and you've only lost what you've invested. You usually have time and the chips to make your moves and advance. Ring games, you're playing with actual money so your mindset changes. Your style of play might not change, but you're limited by your bankroll.

I'm not a hardcore, gotta make money type of poker player. I am happy just playing small stakes tourneys that take a while, lets me take care of my poker fix. I usually play the $5+$0.50 or $10+$1 SnG's and lately I've been finishing in the money like 90% of the time. I've cashed out about $300 in the past 2 weeks just doing these tourneys, and I think I only got first once

Edit:
If you haven't reak this book, maybe you should check it out:
Small Stakes Hold'em
Its 1500 FPP on PokerStars

Last edited by bigsoos; 08-18-05 at 11:00 AM.
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Old 08-18-05, 11:07 AM
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I don't even bother with low dollar limit games, except for Pineapple where people are absolutely clueless.
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Old 08-18-05, 11:40 AM
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I think what hurts me are the bad players. Such as, if we are playing for cash and I have a decent hand, somebody might re-raise me to bluff me out and sometimes I will fold even when I think the other person does not have it because I don't want to lose my money. It seems like I lose my money on the hands where I think I have an excellent chance of winning.

When I mentioned earlier how I lost on the flush, I forget what the suits were so lets just say diamonds but me and the other player both AKo. The board had 4 suits up, I had the King of Diamond and he had the A of Diamond. Forget how the actual hand went but there wasnt a whole lot of betting going on until all 5 cards were up. I had to take that risk since he could only have 1 card of the entire deck that would beat me.
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Old 08-18-05, 11:45 AM
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If you think you have the best hand, why would you be intimidated by a bluff in a .10/.25 game. You're talking at most, what, a 50 cent bluff?
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Old 08-18-05, 12:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Red Dog
If you think you have the best hand, why would you be intimidated by a bluff in a .10/.25 game. You're talking at most, what, a 50 cent bluff?
Sorry, this No Limit I am talking about. So if the pot is up to a few bucks, I have seen people bet their whole stack which is over $20..

Even if I think I have the best hand, I don't really want to risk $20 finding out if they are bluffing me or not. My luck the chance that I do call, they will have it
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Old 08-18-05, 12:13 PM
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Ah, gotcha.
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Old 08-18-05, 01:03 PM
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If you can't handle bluffing and committing a large amount of money to look someone up, then move to Limit instead of No Limit.

Less variance at Limit. You won't win a shitload but you won't lose a shitload either. It's more of a slow and steady climb upward once you learn the game.
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Old 08-18-05, 02:23 PM
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yeah, just play low stakes limit for a while. definitely have to grind out some wins to get some cash though.
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Old 08-18-05, 08:14 PM
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I used to think I knew how to play poker. Then I put $25 into PokerStars and played .25/50 limit. I got it up to around $50 but I couldn't sustain that and even though I believe that I played solidly for the most part I lost a lot of it on bad beats and some on stupid plays. I put money into sites sporadicly when I get the poker bug because when I play I play A LOT and the wife hates it, and also I feel like I get too consumed with it and that's not a good thing, especially when I lose. In the past I've dumped money into sites and pull it out $100 more or so. Fuckin' Stars man, I can never win there and I love their software.
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Old 08-19-05, 09:04 AM
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I think that it is harder to bluff at cash games IME. I get looked up most of the time.
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Old 08-19-05, 02:11 PM
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Okay, I tried to reply but my IE crashed so this is attempt#2

First off, you might have to start calling a few of those bets especially if you feel like the bettor is trying to bully you. Lose a few bucks making a call just to let ppl at the table know that you can not be bullied might save you a little bit later. If ppl notice that you will fold to a big bet or raise, some will try to take advantage of that. They will try to use position/weak betting patterns/scare cards to push you off the hand. This is where notes become important. You should try to take notes-even simple little things you notice that might help you later on. At a minimal, try to get some kind of feel on some of the players at your table.

If you are multi-tabling, consider playing fewer tables in order to let you concentrate more per table. So, even if you're not taking active notes, you can kinda get an idea on how some ppl at the tables play. Notice who the rocks are...who the donkeys are...who's just there for some fun and might play any 2 cards...who's the calling station...who can lay down their chase when they dont have the odds to call. Stuff like that.

If you are only playing one table, start taking active notes and try to observe betting patterns by the players.

Try some limit holdem to mix up your game and see if it's more suited to your style. I didnt like limit too much since you can never get ppl to fold their draws. Preflop raises doesnt seem to have the same effect as in NL.

Play within your bankroll. If you sitting down at a $.50/1.00 blinds NL for the full buyin of $100, does that represent 10% of your entire bankroll? 5%? 50%? Poker is about variance and the long run. Playing at the right limits for your bankroll helps you ride out the swings that happen for everyone.

Playing scared poker is never a good thing. If you tend to be tight/aggressive, dont let a bad swing affect your game. Be confident in the long run. Again, variance can be brutal but that's why it's important to play within your bankroll.

Try not to think that you will find better players in the higher limits that "know" how to player poker just because it's more money. There are crazy donkeys at every level. Try to beat the current level consistently before moving up a level. If you cant spot 2-3 fish at the table who are worse than you, move to another table. Dont let your pride make you play poor poker.

Well, that's just a few thoughts...good luck!
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Old 08-20-05, 04:39 PM
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Not much can be said in one post. Since you're playing NL, the best advice I can give you, though, is to bet hard when you have massive edges.

I wish someone would have drilled that into my head long ago. Let's say you make your straight on the river, most players are apt to make a "bet the other guy will call" just to get a little more money out of him. Unless you know the person you're playing against very well, resist that temptation! Bet hard! Bet big! Against players in these low limits, you'd be shocked at how many players will call with lesser holdings. Sure, many times the players will fold to your big bet but would have called a smaller value bet. Doesn't matter. The times where you bet big and are called will more than make up for all the small bets you lost out on. Trust me. I can't stress this idea enough.

I suggest you move to limit hold em. If you do, buy Sklansky's Small Stakes Hold Em, read it. Read it again. Play the lowest limit ring game possible. Read it again. Play some more. Read it again. You will be guaranteed a profit with that book. Your bankroll will slowly increase, once you hit 300 big bets, move up to the next limit. Adjust. Read it again. Play more.
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