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Family Crisis. What should we do ??

Old 05-18-05, 12:38 PM
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Family Crisis. What should we do ??

I have a MAJOR family snafu right now.

Some of you may remember some of the posts that ive made about my grandfather who has dementia and gets violent, and stuff.

The situation has taken a turn for the worse. The nursing home has finally decided that theyve had enough. They called my mom the other day and said, "thats it. we've had it. come and get him or he goes to the psych hospital"

My grandfather has assaulted 4 different people at the nursing home, including two staff members. He is rude, belligerant, violent, racist, and extremely volatile. Its no wonder they want him out of there.

Heres the real problem. We checked around with the other nursing homes, and they wont take him because of his violent record!! My mom works like 12 hour days, and just simply cant have him in his house anyways. Would you want the person that i just described in your house too? Didnt think so-
I had to be up front with her i said, look i can come over here to help watch him and stuff, but im sorry, he can NOT live in my home. Period. He is a threat to his own safety and those around him.

We are talking with a lawyer right now to see if we have any options.

Does anyone have any advice or thoughts !?

Thanks


skib
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Old 05-18-05, 12:40 PM
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Sounds like a psych hospital is the right place for him.
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Old 05-18-05, 12:42 PM
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Originally Posted by General Zod
Sounds like a psych hospital is the right place for him.
Sounds harsh, but I was thinking the same thing. The only other alternative I can think of his heavy heavy heavy medication.
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Old 05-18-05, 12:51 PM
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Is he far enough gone that he could/would act violent towards family members?

It's one thing to not want to care for a family member because it's too much of an incovenience. It's another if your own safety might be compromised.
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Old 05-18-05, 12:54 PM
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yes, he is far enough gone that he very well may be a threat to a family member, and my mother has claimed on occasion that she backed up a few spaces when he got a wild crazy look in his eye like he was about to attack her.

he reportedly grabbed a nurse and threw her down on the floor so badly that she had a 4 inch bruise on her arm.

actually, now that i think about it, a psychiatric hospital might be the best place. its just really sad for me to have to see it come to that. not sure what else to do


but, from what i understand, you cant admit someone to a Pysch hospital UNLESS you have legal guardianship over them. And she doesnt.
And it is VERY complicated to get legal guardianship over a person, you have to go before a judge, and get 3 persons to testify and all kinds of bullcrap-

Last edited by skiblet; 05-18-05 at 12:56 PM.
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Old 05-18-05, 12:58 PM
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If he's violent, your safety is at risk, as is anyone else's who comes in contact with him. If you have kids I'd definitely say keep him out of your house, but honestly even without kids I'd probably say no, too. The average person is just not equipped emotionally or physically to care for a violent invalid. Professional care is warranted, and if standard nursing homes won't accept him due to his violent behavior, then perhaps a psych facility is your only option. I'm so sorry you have to go through this - it's hard enough to cope with the dementia, but the violent behavior on top of that must make it so much more difficult (and frightening) to deal with him.
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Old 05-18-05, 12:59 PM
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Off to the psych hospital he goes. Frequent visits will be the best way to quell any guilt you may (rightfully or unrightfully) feel.

Why not call your state's Department of Health and Human Services? They should be able to help you.
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Old 05-18-05, 01:03 PM
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The psych hospital seems like the only rational choice.. i don't understand why it's even an issue.
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Old 05-18-05, 01:05 PM
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Pack up your things in the middle of the night and move so the employees and the state can't find you.

J/K - That's a shitty situation. Sorry to hear it. Good luck.
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Old 05-18-05, 01:07 PM
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it is an issue because I have reasons to believe that the nursing home has allternative reasons for wanting to get him out of there.

He is extremely racist and rude to all the staff, which, all are black. He will get right in their face with the N-word and has threatened to kill some of them.

They want him out of there becuase hes violent, but i think mainly just because they are sick and tired of his shit. IF any nursing home administrator read his chart for the application for residence, theyd say, "uhhh, no thanks"-

have no idea what we're gonna do.
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Old 05-18-05, 01:08 PM
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Originally Posted by The Bus
Off to the psych hospital he goes. Frequent visits will be the best way to quell any guilt you may (rightfully or unrightfully) feel.

Why not call your state's Department of Health and Human Services? They should be able to help you.
Very good advice here. I totally agree with you here.

Sorry, Skiblet. I'm sure this must be very hard on you and your family.

You have my email addy if you ever want to talk.
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Old 05-18-05, 01:11 PM
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He should definitely be placed in a psychiatric hospital. As as psychologist who has worked on a geriatric psych unit I can offer some of my experiences. Typically he will be placed in a short term unit. While he is there, you should be able to interact with the mental health professionals in order to decide what is the best long-term option to take. Most likely the psychiatrists will try to stabilize him with medication, often they are better equipped to do this than a nursing home. However, if no stabilization of mood and behavior is possible, he would most likely be transfered to a long term facility.

I would reccommend talking at length with the psychologist or social worker who is in charge of his case. Ask as many questions as you need to and possibly tour the facility/facilities that they want to transfer him to.

Regarding the the issue of involuntary admittance, you do not need guardianship to admit him to the hospital gero-psych unit. If he is a threat to others and/or himself, a staff psychologist at the nursing home or one at the local hospital will be able to handle the legal aspects of his admission. During his stay at the short term facility you should start the process of applying for guardianship. The psychologist or social worker there should be able to help you.
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Old 05-18-05, 01:13 PM
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Originally Posted by skiblet
but, from what i understand, you cant admit someone to a Pysch hospital UNLESS you have legal guardianship over them. And she doesnt.
And it is VERY complicated to get legal guardianship over a person, you have to go before a judge, and get 3 persons to testify and all kinds of bullcrap-
I don't get it, in your first post you said the nursing home said "thats it. we've had it. come and get him or he goes to the psych hospital"

Why don't you just take them up on their offer?
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Old 05-18-05, 01:14 PM
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I just did a quick bit of research and came across this book: The 36-Hour Day : A Family Guide to Caring for Persons With Alzheimer Disease, Related Dementing Illnesses, and Memory Loss in Later Life by Nancy L. Mace, Peter V. Rabins. I saw amazon has it, but I have no idea how to make a dvdtalk referral link, so I'll let the mods fix it if I did it wrong: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg...books&n=507846

Even if you will not care for him yourself, it looks like it has coping mechanisms and can point you in the right direction for legal help. I wish you much luck.
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Old 05-18-05, 01:24 PM
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Psych Hospital.

I wouldn't even hesitate. From what you have written before, it is the only option. Take my permission to feel no guilt, and be done with it.
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Old 05-18-05, 01:29 PM
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Old 05-18-05, 01:32 PM
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update


apparently, my mom just got a call from the nursing home and they said the police and nursing home lawyer are there. They said, come get him and cooperate, or we get to use a 1013 emergency doctors order (which overrides any families legal rights if a patient goes apeshit and gets violent, allowing them to immediately deport him to a pysch hospital)

So apparently, he is in a police car on the way to the hospital right now. =(
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Old 05-18-05, 02:11 PM
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Man skiblet I'm sorry. I know looking at a family situation and giving advice is FAR easier than having to deal with it in reality. It's much easier to be on the outside and say I'd do this or do that but I have to agree with people so far. I'd at least see how it goes at the pysch unit. Although I'm not a fan of medications (because of an abuse situation my grandmother had at a nursing home) I think when things turn violent and he's obviously out of character. It might be best in this situation to explore it. Whatever you do just keep up with which medications they give him (if it comes to this) and make sure you understand what they do and what side effects they have. In any case I wish you and your family the best of luck.
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Old 05-18-05, 02:52 PM
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Originally Posted by skiblet
update


apparently, my mom just got a call from the nursing home and they said the police and nursing home lawyer are there. They said, come get him and cooperate, or we get to use a 1013 emergency doctors order (which overrides any families legal rights if a patient goes apeshit and gets violent, allowing them to immediately deport him to a pysch hospital)

So apparently, he is in a police car on the way to the hospital right now. =(
This point cannot be stressed enough: that is not your grandfather.

That angry, violent person is a direct result of the dementia. (The racist part is probably ingrained, but he was probably better at hiding it before.) Your grandfather passed away years ago. What is left is just the shadow of his former self, a doppleganger who physically resembles the man he once was.

It's sad. But at this point, you should stress to your mother that her only remaining responsibility is to see that he is free from pain and suffering in his final years. That's it. Emotionally, she just needs to let him go.
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Old 05-18-05, 02:52 PM
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Really sorry to hear it's so tough. Dementia can sure take some ugly forms.

Yeah, I've got to agree with everyone else here. He obviously can't take care of himself, and he obviously can't be in a regular medical facility. He'll probably be too paranoid and beligerant to take any heavy mood-altering drugs on his own--but without them there's no way for him to get the care he needs. Sounds like a psych ward (or something close to it) is all that's left.
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Old 05-18-05, 03:12 PM
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I'm sorry this is happening to your family. I think things will work out though.

Most importantly....DON'T FEEL GUILT. Guilt is a waste of your emotional resources. It's not like he was in perfect mental health and you guys had him commited because you didn't love him. You did all you could do and frankly...that's all you can do.
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Old 05-18-05, 04:46 PM
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sorry to hear about it all dude, but the Psych Hospital would probably be better for everyone.
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Old 05-18-05, 04:58 PM
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Originally Posted by skiblet
They want him out of there becuase hes violent, but i think mainly just because they are sick and tired of his shit.
Honestly... can you blame them?
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Old 05-18-05, 07:52 PM
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He's better off in a psych hospital. Maybe they can get him on some good drugs so he can move back into a more normal environment in the future....

Also, I agree with Giantrobo....try not to feel guilty about it. You're doing what's best for him.

Best of luck.
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Old 05-18-05, 07:58 PM
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I've worked in Nursing Homes and they are not equipped, or allowed to handle violent abusive residents. Most nursing homes don't actually even have any kind of treatment other than just passing out meds and the occasional visit by a doctor. All the actual treatment is done by transporting the resident to the local hosiptal. There are laws about the use of restraints for Nursing Homes as well.

The Psych Hospital is your only logical option here unfortunatley
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