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Raising in the Big Blind

Old 04-27-05, 10:17 PM
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Raising in the Big Blind

Am I the only one that gets supremely annoyed by assfaces that raise 1 bb when in the big blind? Is this supposed to be a viable strategy that i don't get? everyone is already in or out, and I can undrestand a large raise with a very strong hand, but just 1bb annoys the piss out of me. I mean come on already, just check and lets see the flop.
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Old 04-27-05, 10:31 PM
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Maybe if I'm on the button, but otherwise you have to expect a raise from someone if you call from middle or early. Yeah I raise on the BB with KK or AA. Why not?
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Old 04-27-05, 11:07 PM
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I think he's referring to small (1 BB) raises, not strong ones when you have pocket Ks or As.
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Old 04-27-05, 11:44 PM
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yeah....exactly. say it's a .50/1 sm/big blind....8 guys at the table and 6 of them check in with their $1 min bet and it comes to the big blind...who's already in with $1, and raises $1 measely frigging dollar. and now it has to go all the way around again and everyone is still in because it's only one piddly fing bet. actually, it more often inspires someone else to reraise again when we could be looking at the turn by now.

Now, if I have AK or something and it checks around to me, i might toss in $5 or something....that's a raise that will clean the table of junk. otherwise, you're still throwing money into the pot with everyone still in waiting to flop their shitty straight.

I guess what i'm saying is if, in that position, you aren't going to raise like a man, just fucking CHECK!!!!!!!!
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Old 04-28-05, 12:02 AM
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I presume you are only referring to PL & NL games? As for limit games, I will frequently raise in the BB if I feel that I have the best hand and want to try and extract maximum value from it. If 5 players are seeing the flop and I have AA or KK, I want to get my money in while I have the best of it.
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Old 04-28-05, 12:05 AM
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yeah...this is a NL gripe....I don't know why, but I don't like limit games. i always seem to get screwed in them. I like the control of NL and betting according to hand strength. it's also awfully hard to bluff in limit.
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Old 04-28-05, 10:23 AM
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Originally Posted by brizz
and now it has to go all the way around again and everyone is still in because it's only one piddly fing bet.
Are you more upset that the betting has to go around again and it wastes your valuable time, or that they aren’t betting enough to suit your tastes?



There are different views about betting/raising. One (Sklansky) suggests raising is a way to induce players to fold, thus eliminating drawing hands and the possible suckout. Another (Caro) posits that raising is a +EV move designed to increase the value of your hand by making it incorrect for others to call. “In the long run” you win more.

But then there are players who don’t give a shit about that and are just too lazy to do anything but click the “raise” button. Players like this are generally weak and need to be exploited.

Of course, players who go on tilt because their valuable time is being wasted need to be exploited too...
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Old 04-28-05, 11:38 AM
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It is also annoying when everyone folds to the SB, which calls, then the BB raises. Then it's played to the river and you see the fucktard in the BB raised with some ungodly hand like 84os thinking he could steal the blinds. It just doesn't happen in those low value limit games.
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Old 04-28-05, 11:41 AM
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The entire game is about betting, not the cards so much. Granted in limit games more hands are played out, but you can still easily bluff. If you play solid and tight, you will be playing those pots that you enter aggressively. I will bet on the big blind all of the time if I am entering with a fairly strong hand. That bet has ramifications on every bet to the end. That BB raise, even though called can get someone to fold their middle pair to my nothing because of aggressive play from the outset. I see nothing wrong with the raise. Without knowing the player, the BB raise to me can affect the way I play out the rest of the hand. It is important information. Granted, some people just always raise, but that is figured out quickly. Yes, they may be asshats, but if you are playing a strong hand, that is more money for you.

Just my thoughts

Last edited by lysander; 04-28-05 at 11:52 AM.
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Old 04-28-05, 11:46 AM
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Originally Posted by lysander
Please don't take this as condescending or mean spirited. It is in no way intended to be. Just my thoughts

The entire game is about betting, not the cards so much. Granted in limit games more hands are played out, but you can still easily bluff. If you play solid and tight, you will be playing those pots that you enter aggressively. I will bet on the big blind all of the time if I am entering with a fairly strong hand. That bet has ramifications on every bet to the end. That BB raise, even though called can get someone to fold their middle pair to my nothing because of aggressive play from the outset. I see nothing wrong with the raise. Without knowing the player, the BB raise to me can affect the way I play out the rest of the hand. It is important information. Granted, some people just always raise, but that is figured out quickly. Yes, they may be asshats, but if you are playing a strong hand, that is more money for you.

Just my thoughts
yet by doing this, you're putting yourself in a position where you have already put 1 BB into the pot after your raise and are now 1st (or 2nd) to act on a hand that you may have missed completely on the flop.

Raising on the button is far far more valuable than raising in the BB.
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Old 04-28-05, 11:48 AM
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OK, I see what you are talking about, in NL. Is this a SNG I take it?

Yeah that can get annoying. I notice it can induce heavy betting with lots of callers sometimes depending on the amount of the SNG.
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Old 04-28-05, 12:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Gallant Pig
OK, I see what you are talking about, in NL. Is this a SNG I take it?

Yeah that can get annoying. I notice it can induce heavy betting with lots of callers sometimes depending on the amount of the SNG.
Yeah...it's a sit n go phenomen more than anything. particularly frustrating when you start out at 10/20 blinds and everyone is already in, and the big blind raises aonther 20. so you check again and then the guy who was just slow playing waiting for the blind NOW raises 500 and you have to fold after all that crap out 40 and no flop. I don't go on tilt because of it, but I definately pay close attention to tards that do this regularly, bc more often than not they are playing shit and I nail them eventually. This one blowhard was doing it constantly, then had the audacity to show me his 35o with KKQ on the flop and he betting big to get me to fold (i had A 7 or something)...I don't mind being bluffed, but don't show me. Of course, I understand the strategy becuase next time he did it he actually did have a hand and took someone out. I'm not stupid enough to chase hands with these guys, but within a few I had something to work with and caught him betting on shit again. I just don't understand why people think that's such a great strategy. Sure, luck will bring you double gutshot straights and flop you 2 7s when you raise with 47 suited once in a while....but these players never last...but it is frustrating to get knocked out by them once in a while when they do catch cards.

rant rant rant.....blah blah blah....I'm actually getting a lot better at this game and finishing in the money in probably 3 out of 4 sit n gos i play (5 for 5 yesterday, with one win and 2 seconds). I guess i'm just starting to mark different styles and trying to determine which ones are viable and which ones are bullshit......like the bullies who catch one all-in and try to bet heavy on every fucking thing. I like taking them out. If i've learned anything, it's patience grasshoppa. In the sng I won yesterday, i think i folded 25 hands in a row at one point....
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Old 04-28-05, 03:10 PM
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Originally Posted by brizz
Am I the only one that gets supremely annoyed by assfaces that raise 1 bb when in the big blind? Is this supposed to be a viable strategy that i don't get? everyone is already in or out, and I can undrestand a large raise with a very strong hand, but just 1bb annoys the piss out of me. I mean come on already, just check and lets see the flop.
Why should the big blind forfiet his option to raise? It accomplishes several things.

1) It allows you to stuff the pot on premium hands (though admittedly in poor position).

2) It makes people think twice about calling your big blind with mediocre drawing hands.

I am more apt to check my BB on certian hands that I might otherwise raise with, but that's largely because I'm in bad position. If I've got a premium hand, you better damned well believe I'll be raising. If it annoys the other players, that's all the better. I prefer my opponents to be uncomfortable.
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Old 04-28-05, 03:14 PM
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When I played SNG I always played too aggressively and got bumped out with sucker hands (QQ versus AA, etc).

3/4 is very good you should track your ROI.
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Old 04-28-05, 03:14 PM
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Originally Posted by brizz
yeah...this is a NL gripe....I don't know why, but I don't like limit games. i always seem to get screwed in them.
Limit is more of a thinking-man's game. No-limit is more about bravado and taking a stand. If you don't have a feel and an enjoyment for figuring out the math of a play, limit won't be your cup of tea.

As a rule of thumb, a good limit player will usually do fine at no-limit. A good no-limit player, however, can often struggle at limit. Personally, when I talk to someone learning the game, I STRONGLY urge them to learn limit poker. Skills you learn in limit apply to all games and all limits. The same is not true of the skills you learn in NL.

And if you say the word "limit" enough, it starts to sound really funny in your head ....

I like the control of NL and betting according to hand strength. it's also awfully hard to bluff in limit.
Adjust accordingly.
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Old 04-28-05, 03:35 PM
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Originally Posted by mgbfan
Limit is more of a thinking-man's game. No-limit is more about bravado and taking a stand. If you don't have a feel and an enjoyment for figuring out the math of a play, limit won't be your cup of tea.

As a rule of thumb, a good limit player will usually do fine at no-limit. A good no-limit player, however, can often struggle at limit. Personally, when I talk to someone learning the game, I STRONGLY urge them to learn limit poker. Skills you learn in limit apply to all games and all limits. The same is not true of the skills you learn in NL.

And if you say the word "limit" enough, it starts to sound really funny in your head ....


Adjust accordingly.
You are probably right on all counts...i honestly haven't plaid limit games in quite a while because of the early distaste I acquired for them. perhaps I should give them another try and see how it goes. I'm certainly a far better player than I was 6 months ago.

limit limit limit limit......you're right! same goes for 'poker' .....
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Old 04-29-05, 01:04 AM
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Originally Posted by mgbfan
And if you say the word "limit" enough, it starts to sound really funny in your head ....
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Old 04-29-05, 02:10 AM
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Originally Posted by mgbfan
Why should the big blind forfiet his option to raise? It accomplishes several things.

1) It allows you to stuff the pot on premium hands (though admittedly in poor position).

2) It makes people think twice about calling your big blind with mediocre drawing hands.

I am more apt to check my BB on certian hands that I might otherwise raise with, but that's largely because I'm in bad position. If I've got a premium hand, you better damned well believe I'll be raising. If it annoys the other players, that's all the better. I prefer my opponents to be uncomfortable.
But in that situation, you should be raising more than a minraise. He wasn't complaining about all raises, just minraises.

#1 is a limit strategy, not a NL strategy. You don't want all those people sticking around in NL. You want to get rid of weak hands. It makes it easier to put people on a range of hands and makes it easier to control action post-flop.

#2 won't be accomplished by a minraise.

I'll go a little further than the OP. Minraising at any time in NL is usually incorrect strategy.
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