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Nursery Rhymes that should not be told to kids

Old 11-19-04, 06:43 PM
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Fairy Tales & Rhymes that should not be told to kids

There are some Nursery Rhymes we tell kids that we really have no business telling them.

Hansel and Gretel - A poor wood carver takes his children out in the woods and abandons them because he can't afford to feed them. Then a witch tries to eat them.

Three Blind Mice

Three blind mice see how they run they all ran after the farmers wife who cut off their tails with a carving knife.

Any others?

Last edited by orangeguy; 11-19-04 at 07:40 PM.
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Old 11-19-04, 06:47 PM
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Any of the ones Andrew Dice Clay used to tell.
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Old 11-19-04, 07:13 PM
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If you were familiar with any of the Grimm fairy tales in their original form (before they were sanitized and made safe for general audiences), you wouldn't let a child anywhere near them.
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Old 11-19-04, 07:17 PM
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This better not turn into a discussion of the merits of the various philosophical theories of exposing a child to fairy tales by Locke, Rousseau or Kant.


I will be pissed if it does.


(---muggins
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Old 11-19-04, 07:22 PM
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Hansel & Gretel is not a nursery rhyme. It is a fairy tale.

It also instills a fear of talking to strangers in kids.

I honestly can't think of a fairy tale I heard as a child that wouldn't be appropriate for children today.
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Old 11-19-04, 07:41 PM
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Originally posted by DonnachaOne
Hansel & Gretel is not a nursery rhyme. It is a fairy tale.

It also instills a fear of talking to strangers in kids.

I honestly can't think of a fairy tale I heard as a child that wouldn't be appropriate for children today.
The fairy tales you heard as a child are totally appropriate for children today.

The fairy tales as they were originally collected are in no way appropriate for smaller children. They are vicious, mean-spirited, horrific little warnings that have no happy endings and usually end up with children being torn to shreds. Your tykes would have nightmares for years, and their therapy bills would make an Ivy League college tuition seem like dinner for two at Arby's. With a coupon.
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Old 11-19-04, 07:47 PM
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That's right, those fairy tales have had many different versions over the years, and some of the early ones are pretty bad. I've read a version of "Little Red Riding Hood" that was pretty twisted.
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Old 11-19-04, 07:57 PM
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Looks like I better cancel that order of original Grimm collection book I was going to give to my friends 5 year old. Nah… for all I know he’s been reading them to her since she was 2, now she can have her own copy.
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Old 11-19-04, 08:38 PM
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I still have my nursery rhyme book that was given to me back in 1977. Most of the rhymes aren't too bad but there are a few that could scare a younger child.

And yeah, the original Grimm fairy tales are VERY twisted.
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Old 11-19-04, 09:04 PM
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I once asked a children's librarian about why children's fairy tales were so horrible. She told me that children reach the age where they realize that the world isn't perfect and kind. They learn to deal with that truth through fairy tales, in which horrible things happen to imaginary people.

And so the princess is made into a goose girl, the Little Mermaid is betrayed and turned into sea foam, and the wicked queen is forced to dance in red hot shoes until she's dead.
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Old 11-19-04, 09:07 PM
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Some fairy tales were written for adults, too. Read the original Charles Perrault of version of Sleeping Beauty. She is awakened by the Prince, goes to his castle and marries him, and then discovers that her Mother-in-Law is an ogre. A lot of women can relate to that.
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Old 11-19-04, 09:47 PM
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Rub a dub dub, three men in a tub.

I really don't want to go there.
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Old 11-20-04, 04:18 AM
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I read somewhere that Sleeping Beauty was not woken up by a kiss, but, by giving birth to twins.
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Old 11-20-04, 05:08 AM
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Originally posted by cultshock
That's right, those fairy tales have had many different versions over the years, and some of the early ones are pretty bad. I've read a version of "Little Red Riding Hood" that was pretty twisted.
Is it where she gets in the bed with the wolf naked? My wife told me about that one and the one where sleeping beauty was raped while she was sleeping and only woke up when she had the baby.

I'd like to get a book with the older versions of the story's. Can you buy one like that?

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Old 11-20-04, 05:24 AM
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I did a quick search of Amazon for "grimm's adult". This came up; there were others.

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg...glance&s=books
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Old 11-20-04, 05:33 AM
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Originally posted by Nick Danger
I did a quick search of Amazon for "grimm's adult". This came up; there were others.

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg...glance&s=books
Cool thanks I'll will buy it when I have extra money.
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Old 11-20-04, 05:51 AM
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Goldylocks and the 3 bears, the story doesn't end after she falls asleep in one of the beds, the story ends after the baby bear gets her pregnant

Don't tell that one, it condones (pre) teenage sex and beastiality

Last edited by Bacon; 11-20-04 at 05:54 AM.
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Old 11-20-04, 05:56 AM
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Originally posted by Matt Millheiser
If you were familiar with any of the Grimm fairy tales in their original form (before they were sanitized and made safe for general audiences), you wouldn't let a child anywhere near them.

so true. In most cases Disney and companies like it "cleaned them up and made them happy". Edward Scissorhands is another dark story that comes to mind. IIRC, even Burton's version was lighter than the original but I never read the original German book so I can't say for sure.

Last edited by Giantrobo; 01-17-08 at 10:14 PM.
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Old 11-20-04, 06:44 AM
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Most of the fairy tales were thinly veiled, somewhat graphic morality tales. And perhaps kids were a little tougher back then.
Another good one is 'Grimm's Grimmest.' People eating each other, stepmothers vivisecting their stepkids, etc.
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Old 11-20-04, 07:24 AM
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USA Today ran this article a while back.

LONDON (AP) — They seem innocent enough, but Jack and Jill may have become amorous as they climbed that hill for a pail of water.

And instead of a water bird, Goosey, goosey gander may refer to a woman of ill repute, says Chris Roberts, a social history graduate and librarian at the University of East London. Roberts has re-examined the origins of 24 popular nursery rhymes for a new book, Heavy Words Thrown Lightly.

"The rhymes have all been well researched, but I have looked at them from a more modern, psychoanalytical perspective," he said in an interview with The Associated Press.

Roberts said his 96-page book, published by Foot and Mouth Publications, is intended to be "a lighthearted take" on the rhyming stories and nonsense jingles enjoyed by youngsters for generations.

It has long been known that many nursery rhymes allude to contemporary events — some of them distressing, even bloody. Peter and Iona Opie's Oxford Dictionary of Nursery Rhymes, published in 1998, is among works that address origins and interpretations.

However, a study of published psychoanalytical texts has taken Roberts further than others in finding sexual meanings.

"Jack 'losing his crown' can be read to mean losing his virginity," said Roberts, who hit on his idea while researching historic walks in east London.

Roberts believes that the rhyme "Goosey, goosey gander, where do you wander? Upstairs and downstairs and in my lady's chamber" is an allusion to prostitutes — commonly known as geese in the 18th century. The rhyme also hints at the spread of venereal disease, which was known as "goose bumps" because of the swellings it caused.

Meanwhile, he says, Oranges and Lemons, widely seen as a guide to the City of London, is a vulgar wedding song in which the line "here comes a candle to light you to bed" refers to the bride tempting her bridegroom; "here comes a chopper to chop off your head" suggests the woman losing her virginity, or "maidenhead."

The Opies do not allude to such readings. Yet they record the alternate second verse of Jack and Jill and agree with Roberts that the reference to "cockles" in Mary, Mary Quite Contrary, refers to cuckolds in what Roberts believes is the promiscuous court of Mary, Queen of Scots, who ruled in the mid-1500s.

Like Roberts, the Oxford Dictionary of Nursery Rhymes authors record an alternate version of See Saw, Marjorie Daw that refers to Marjorie as a "filthy slut" who decided to "sell her bed and lay on muck."

"Some nursery rhymes were clearly adult rhymes that were sung to children because they were the only rhymes an adult knew," Roberts said. "Others were deliberately created as a simple way to tell children a story or give them information. Religion, sex, money and social issues are all common themes."

After a lifetime of studying old texts, the Opies concluded that most nursery rhymes are fragments of ballads or folk songs, ancient customs and rituals, street cries or mummers' plays. Others are based on proverbs or refrains of tunes sung by soldiers, they said.

They agree with Roberts that the rhymes "were not in the first place composed for children; in fact many are survivals of an adult code of joviality, and in their original wording were, by present standards, strikingly unsuitable for those of tender years."

Most experts believe the rhymes date from the early 17th century.

Increasing freedom of speech and communication later reduced the need for allegorical speech, but in the late 19th century under the Victorians, who viewed children as innocents, many of the original rhymes were reworked into collections for the young.



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Old 11-20-04, 08:16 AM
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Originally posted by Giantrobo
so true. In most cases Disney and companies like it "cleaned them up and made them happy". Edward Scissorhands is another dark story that comes to mind. IIRC, even Burton's versioiin was lighter than the original but I never read the original German book so I can't say for sure.
I'm pretty sure Burton created that character when he was in high school, but I could be wrong.
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Old 11-20-04, 08:45 AM
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on this note i was at Barnes and Noble the other day and there was a Shel Silverstein Book of ADULT cartoons... OMG twisted shit i tell you... twisted shit

http://search.barnesandnoble.com/boo...2218739&itm=19

i want to say that's it but i don't remember the title real well
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Old 11-20-04, 11:03 AM
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The fairy tales as they were originally collected are in no way appropriate for smaller children. They are vicious, mean-spirited, horrific little warnings that have no happy endings and usually end up with children being torn to shreds. Your tykes would have nightmares for years, and their therapy bills would make an Ivy League college tuition seem like dinner for two at Arby's. With a coupon. [/B]
Got news for you, children are vicious, mean-spirited, and horrific.
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Old 11-20-04, 11:34 AM
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Originally posted by Enright
Got news for you, children are vicious, mean-spirited, and horrific.
And they cost money!!!! You'd think they have the common courtesy to go get a freakin' job!!! Child labor laws...blah blah blah. It isn't like 95% of the kids in school actually learn something.

-pedagogue

ps. I was at a pre-school yesterday doing some testing on the kids and while they waiting to go back to their classroom...they sang us some songs. One was the Happy Turkey Song, and the other was the Sad Turkey Song. The Sad Turkey one ended up with it dead on the dining room table?!!
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Old 11-20-04, 01:40 PM
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I gotta say that the only 'fairy tale' I remember from my childhood is one called "The Hobyars" which is a horrific tale of an elderly couple who are visited nightly by a group of ugly gnomes. Each night their dog barks and barks to drive away the hobyars, also disturbing the sleep of the elderly couple. The old man responds by cutting off parts of the dog (tail one night, legs the next, finally he chops off the dog's head). Now that the dog cannot bark, the hobyars come and kidnap the old woman for their dinner. The old man, realizing what happened, sews his dog back together again to help him find the old woman. They find the old woman at last and let her out of the sack that binds her. The dog hides in the sack and leaps out at the hobyars when they come to cook the old woman. The story ends with the dog eating the gnomes.

This story was in an old grade school primer one of my father's aunts used to teach from.

That story was read to me as a child and I turned out only semi-twisted

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