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SNG or Ring Game?

Old 11-15-04, 12:31 PM
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SNG or Ring Game?

Which do you prefer & why?
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Old 11-15-04, 12:43 PM
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Online under normal circumstances I normally prefer a ring game for a few reasons:


  • it's easier to find and isolate bad players.
    SNG i find it hard to seek out a certain bad player and get in their SNG. ring games are easy, just get in line. once in the game, you can take much more of their money in a ring game than in a sng where at max you get something like 50% of their buyin.

  • ring games you can leave whenever you want
    if the game isn't good, i can leave and find a better one

  • ring games offer other incentives
    ring games help you earn bonus $ on some sites and where I play they gain me FPP that I can use to enter tournaments and buy books/clothing etc.



i do play some SNG as they are fun, are a nice change of pace for me, and can be profitable. also i like SNG because they help me practice my NL skill and my tournament play (which is what i normally play in home games).

also, when i am drunk I always play SNG... to minimize losses .
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Old 11-15-04, 02:12 PM
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I donít find it hard to isolate bad players in SnGs. Since the lineup doesnít change, itís easy to figure out whatís going on.

In a ring game when youíre hot, players leave. (This usually isn't the case at a casino, since it's often quite a wait to get another table.) Youíre either left with a short table or have to figure out the new players.

Or, you could just say itís personal choice: I like SnGs.
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Old 11-15-04, 02:21 PM
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i meant finding players that i have played with previously that i know i should be able to extract $ from...

it's hard to get in the same SNG against known opponents...
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Old 11-15-04, 02:31 PM
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Ah. This much is very true.

I put 10-12 SnGs in Poker Tracker before I maxed it out. Never saw the same player twice.
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Old 11-15-04, 02:33 PM
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do you have the paid version of PT? i'm debating if i should get it....
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Old 11-15-04, 02:53 PM
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Itís not for me. I donít have the kind of mind that can analyze that kind of data. I do much better with FTF poker.

But I can see how it can be a powerful tool. You should invest some of your bonus $$.
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Old 11-15-04, 02:58 PM
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I prefer Ring games by far. Risk of Ruin is far less. One bad break can kill your SnG buy in. Whereas a steady ring player who knows what he's doing can earn a consistent profit over time.
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Old 11-15-04, 03:01 PM
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When I first started, I played SnGs almost exclusivly. Started with Party's $10+1 and graduated to the $30+3. For a good year, those were total cake. I made a LOT of money. About 6-8 months ago, something changed for me. I don't know if my game changed or if the competition changed, but almost overnight, I went from a huge +EV on those tourneys to an almost break-even EV.

Now, I play mostly ring games. They're not generally as exciting or as emotionally rewarding as SnGs are, but the money is good and more reliable for me at this point.
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Old 11-15-04, 06:37 PM
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Ring is almost surely better for making $, SnG is WAY more fun for me.
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Old 11-15-04, 06:53 PM
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Originally posted by LurkerDan
Ring is almost surely better for making $, SnG is WAY more fun for me.

Couldn't agree more.
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Old 11-16-04, 10:26 AM
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I play SnG's almost exclusively. I hate playing with limits and playing NL ring games with my bankroll would be insane. Although one of my greatest/luckiest poker nights I had $5 and couldn't play the cheapest SnG ($6) so i went to the NL$25 table and left a few hours later with $98.

The $5 SnG at Party are usually easy money and what i have been playing most lately. Last night i played five and got one 1st, 2 2nd's, 1 3rd and 1 5th place.

When i'm playing a lot and i'm more on my game i'll play the bigger stakes but for now i just happy breaking even or coming out a few bucks ahead. During the summer when the gf was away and i had no day job i played $30 or $50 tournies most days and did pretty well. But now i'm lucky to play once or twice a week so i stick to the small potato games.
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Old 11-16-04, 12:15 PM
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Originally posted by schlitz100

The $5 SnG at Party are usually easy money and what i have been playing most lately. Last night i played five and got one 1st, 2 2nd's, 1 3rd and 1 5th place.
You do realize that when you play those $5 SnGs at PP, you're paying 20% rather than 10% in fees. I don't care how soft the tourneys are, that's gonna really take a bite out of your EV.

When I started, I started at the $10 level for that reason.
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Old 11-16-04, 05:39 PM
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Originally posted by mgbfan
...EV...
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Old 11-16-04, 06:59 PM
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expected value?
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Old 11-16-04, 07:55 PM
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east villiage.
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Old 11-16-04, 09:05 PM
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Originally posted by Gallant Pig
expected value?
I hope not.

For some reason, I've got an itch to watch The Princess Bride. Don't know why.
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Old 11-16-04, 11:26 PM
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You guys who say Ring Games are more lucrative, explain how you make money on there. For me SNG is much more lucrative.
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Old 11-16-04, 11:29 PM
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Here's a very typical hand for me:

I'm under the gun, I have KA, I raise, everyone calls. Flop is A-7-3. I bet, everyone calls. Turn is 2. I bet I get reraised, I call. River is 9. I check, someone bets. Well... you know the rest... Pick any 2 crap cards and that's what someone has and they make it on the turn or river. That's not poker, that's stome sort of horrible casino game where you bet a certain amount of money and you immediately get deal 5 cards and another guy gets 5 cards and whoever has the best hand wins.

The same hand in a SNG ends after I bet strongly after the flop and shake everyone out.

Last edited by Gallant Pig; 11-16-04 at 11:32 PM.
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Old 11-17-04, 01:01 AM
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Originally posted by Gallant Pig
expected value?
Yes. EV = Expected Value. If you want to be a successful poker player in either tourneys or ring games, make yourself intimatly familiar with the concept of EV. This is especially true for limit poker, but also very much so for no-limit and pot-limit poker.
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Old 11-17-04, 01:10 AM
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Originally posted by Gallant Pig
You guys who say Ring Games are more lucrative, explain how you make money on there. For me SNG is much more lucrative.
Many poker pros feel tourneys are much easier to play, especially NL tourneys. This is because it's often all a show of power and a toss of the coin. Players don't have to do a lot of the real number crunching they have to do to be successful in a ring game.

Remember, a limit ring game, especially lower limits online, is ALL about the numbers. A rare few have a natural feel for the numbers. If you're finding ring games impossible to beat, you may assume you're not one of those lucky few. So, to beat them, you have to make yourself intimatly familiar with the odds. Know your odds and your opponents' odds of hitting outs. Know the EV on every move you make, and don't make negative-EV moves just because you're bored. Get good at calculating not only pot odds, but implied odds.

It's not enough to merely "feel" like you played well. You have to KNOW you played well. In the long run, if all your moves are +EV, you will make money. It's a mathmatical certianty. When the math is clear, the morons reraising on A2o will no longer infuriate you. You'll be happy to take the bad beat, knowing where your profits will come from.
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Old 11-17-04, 06:28 AM
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ďYou keep using that word. I donít think you know what it means.Ē

Expected value is a concept that is rooted in pure math and snobbery.

Snobbery?!? The Wiz has gone off his rocker.

Yeah, tell me something I donít already know. Iím also talking to myself.

Expected value is the fire that fuels the myth that ďpeople who bet like that will end up giving it all backĒ and its illegitimate son ďand itíll be back in my pocket soon enough.Ē

Snobbery. We bet $100 on a coin toss. You win, thinking yourself a god. I point out that youíve won nothing, since your EV was zero. You go off looking for a sushi restaurant.

EV is only good for statistics and to make people believe you know what youíre talking about.

You come back for more. Now Iím getting a hardon. We toss the coin another 10 times and Iím out another grand. I go ballistic. I mean, Iíve got my EV, but youíve got my money. How can this be?!?

EV is bullshit.

You guys keep playing what makes you happy. Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain.
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Old 11-17-04, 07:16 AM
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Originally posted by Gallant Pig
The same hand in a SNG ends after I bet strongly after the flop and shake everyone out.
True, but in the same game with the same hand, the blinds are now starting to take their toll, and a coupla short stacks make desperation moves and draw out on you.

It all depends on ďimplied perception,Ē which is a fancy way of saying, ďYou see what you want to see.Ē

Fer instance, mgbfan would never play a $5 SnG on PP because it costs an extra 50Ę. So he plays the $10 games and loses money. Meanwhile, schlitz100 is making a killing at the $5 tables and doesnít realize how stoopid he is for letting that 50Ę cut into his EV.

I say play whatever makes you happy.
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Old 11-17-04, 09:53 AM
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Originally posted by Gallant Pig
You guys who say Ring Games are more lucrative, explain how you make money on there. For me SNG is much more lucrative.
first i try to find a good table, then target weak players.

so many players focus on starting hands and that is all they really understand. i find starting hands to be quasi important BUT post flop play to be extremely important.

so many people think that if they are playing quality starting hands they should be gauranteed the pot. they aren't. this expectation is what causes them to overvalue their hand and lose money to every board that isn't great for their quality starting hand.

perhaps these are the people who like NL SNG better because they can just push all their money into the center and their quality starting hand will hold up more often?
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Old 11-17-04, 10:28 AM
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did anyone else get the "intelligent gambler" newsletter in the mail the other week? it had a big article on "EV" with formulas and stuff. i find it funny that i get unsolicited newsletters about gambling .
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