Go Back  DVD Talk Forum > General Discussions > Other Talk
Reload this Page >

Woman killed by non-lethal weapon

Other Talk "Otterville"

Woman killed by non-lethal weapon

Old 10-23-04, 01:52 PM
  #26  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Cloud Cuckoo Land
Posts: 866
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally posted by DVD Polizei
Don't wanna get hurt or possibly die--then don't screw around with a bunch of punks who are assaulting cops. I have no problems with her death. She was an idiot.

Such a nice sweet picture of her. Who is she, Mother Teresa now? Please.
Isn't that a wee bit extreme? Yowza.

A heart of gold this one.
Old 10-23-04, 01:53 PM
  #27  
DVD Talk Limited Edition
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Posts: 5,663
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Until someone gets clocked on the head from the can and suffers a serious concussion or brain trauma. The risk is minimal but is still there.
Old 10-23-04, 01:56 PM
  #28  
DVD Talk Godfather
 
DVD Polizei's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 53,753
Received 152 Likes on 112 Posts
Oh I'm sure there will be a nice memorial area by a lamp post, where you can send flowers within 48hrs from now.

Old 10-23-04, 02:28 PM
  #29  
DVD Talk God
 
Deftones's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: Arizona
Posts: 78,770
Received 787 Likes on 557 Posts
Originally posted by DVD Polizei
Deftones, Esq

I agree with the toxicity of tear gas, but riddle me this. What's the first thing a crowd does when tear gas is fired at them.

Tear gas is only meant in extreme situations where the police force cannot contain the crowd--cannot move it where they want to, and the crowd must be split. Obviously, using tear gas in situations varies with police dept. and incident.

Pepper spray is nice, but you have to get closer to the actual person you want to hit--which is an interesting coincidence with this recent incident, no?
Tear gas is hardly used, even in crowd control situations. From my expereince, it is used only in dire situations, mostly with SWAT involvement.

As for the stampede issue, I again will tell you that is not the reason why it is used.

I've seen crowds turn into panic just simply when large volumes of pepper spray is used, so that theory doensn't really hold water.

As for the range issue, that is a determining factor, however they have fire extinguisher sized canisters that can shoot over 20 feet into a crowd. Furthermore, that is why these less lethal weapons are being developed so that their range is dramatically increased (i.e. the OC pellets that killed the woman).

Last edited by Deftones, Esq; 10-23-04 at 02:31 PM.
Old 10-23-04, 02:44 PM
  #30  
DVD Talk Hero
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Bartertown due to it having a better economy than where I really live.
Posts: 29,786
Received 13 Likes on 8 Posts
most of the time I hear these refered to as less lethal, notice the lack of than
less than lethal still implies they're never lethal to the average sheep
less lethal implies it won't kill as easily as a bullet but still will kill in some situations
unless it can be proven the cop was aiming at her head I'm not blaiming the cops
Old 10-23-04, 02:59 PM
  #31  
DVD Talk Legend
 
chrisih8u's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: A few miles north of the Cape
Posts: 18,335
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Originally posted by MACD23
witnesses around the incident are saying the crowd surrounded a group of officers and some jackasses started firing bottles and bricks at police, getting the horses riled up and scared as well........at that point an officer began firing these pepper bullets into the crowd at will and one struck this woman in the eye.she was simply standing in a group of friends, doing nothing wrong.......the crowd was massive, so there wasn't much she could do to "get out of the way" of the trouble makers.

Thats the way I understand the situation, too. I wonder how much training Boston PD had with these new weapons. I doubt it was alot.
Old 10-23-04, 03:00 PM
  #32  
DVD Talk God
 
Deftones's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: Arizona
Posts: 78,770
Received 787 Likes on 557 Posts
Originally posted by chrisih8u
Thats the way I understand the situation, too. I wonder how much training Boston PD had with these new weapons. I doubt it was alot.
Usually you have to be certified in any weapon you use before they unleash you on teh street.
Old 10-23-04, 03:03 PM
  #33  
DVD Talk Legend
 
chrisih8u's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: A few miles north of the Cape
Posts: 18,335
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Originally posted by Deftones, Esq
Usually you have to be certified in any weapon you use before they unleash you on teh street.

Being certified with a weapon and knowing how and when to use it correctly can be very different. These weapons were bought for the DNC, but they didnt have to use them.
Old 10-23-04, 03:06 PM
  #34  
DVD Talk God
 
Deftones's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: Arizona
Posts: 78,770
Received 787 Likes on 557 Posts
Originally posted by chrisih8u
Being certified with a weapon and knowing how and when to use it correctly can be very different. These weapons were bought for the DNC, but they didnt have to use them.
I won't disagree, and no matter how much training you have in weapons on the range, the real life application is much different.
Old 10-23-04, 03:30 PM
  #35  
DVD Talk Hero
 
PopcornTreeCt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 25,913
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes on 2 Posts
F***ing Red Sox fans.
Old 10-23-04, 03:54 PM
  #36  
Member
 
Join Date: May 2000
Location: The Ign'ant South
Posts: 242
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Whoever has no problem with this girl dying is a fucking idiot with no sense of right and wrong. It doesn't even matter if she was one of the people throwing bottles, killing her was not an appropriate response. (For the record, I don't think that she was involved in the bottle throwing or that the police killed her on purpose).
Old 10-23-04, 04:43 PM
  #37  
DVD Talk Hall of Fame
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Seattle
Posts: 8,978
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally posted by Deftones, Esq
No, they couldn't. The dispersion area for those is extremely small. You need to hit center mass for them to be effective.
Really? I didn't know that. One time they evacuated Westlake Mall in downtown Seattle and people were saying it had something to do with pepper spray.

But if it's that ineffective, they should probably use something else.
Old 10-23-04, 04:49 PM
  #38  
DVD Talk Gold Edition
 
aintnosin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Orange County, CA
Posts: 2,897
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally posted by DVD Polizei
Maybe instead of blaming a cop, let's put the responsibility on the dumbasses who initiated the problem in the first place.
Absolutely. She was killed because some idiots couldn't control themselves and forced the police to attempt to restrain the situation.
Old 10-23-04, 05:06 PM
  #39  
DVD Talk Hall of Fame
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 8,487
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally posted by DVD Polizei
Don't wanna get hurt or possibly die--then don't screw around with a bunch of punks who are assaulting cops. I have no problems with her death. She was an idiot.

Such a nice sweet picture of her. Who is she, Mother Teresa now? Please.
Quite possibly the most insensitive, snide, and ignorant thing I've ever read on the DVDTalk forums, and there have been some whoppers.
Old 10-23-04, 05:33 PM
  #40  
DVD Talk God
 
Deftones's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: Arizona
Posts: 78,770
Received 787 Likes on 557 Posts
Originally posted by Roto
Really? I didn't know that. One time they evacuated Westlake Mall in downtown Seattle and people were saying it had something to do with pepper spray.

But if it's that ineffective, they should probably use something else.


The pepper balls are so small and have such a small amount of OC in them that you need a direct person contact w/in the vicinity of their mid to upper torso to be as effective as a spray to the face. So, in your scenario, shooting at someone's feet is ineffective and a waste of time.

I've been hit in the face w/ pepper spray before. Other than the slight skin irritation, it did nothing to me. It effects everyone in a different way. With that said, again I reiterate, shooting towards the ground is a big waste of time and resources.
Old 10-23-04, 05:51 PM
  #41  
DVD Talk Godfather
 
DVD Polizei's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 53,753
Received 152 Likes on 112 Posts
It doesn't even matter if she was one of the people throwing bottles, killing her was not an appropriate response.

The World is Square,

Nobody "killed" her on purpose.

She was at the wrong place, at the wrong time. And I disagree. If she WAS one of the people throwing bottles, her death is just fine with me. Non-lethal bottles can kill just like non-lethal pellet guns can.

Who's to blame? The idiots who initiated the violence. Those people are to blame for her death. Those are the fucking idiots.

MoviePage,

Actually, that's an interesting statement, because Fidel Castro broke a few bones and several people on this forum showed an amazing amount of insensitivity. Just depends on who you like, and since you're new here, you'll figure it out.

Stupidity has little tolerance on this forum, at least by me, and I won't be wearing ribbons in memory of her death, or marching down Boston Ave, arms hooked with civil rights leaders, proclaiming police have gone awry.

Let's start making those who initiated and participated in the violence, which resulted in her death, legally responsible.

Last edited by DVD Polizei; 10-23-04 at 05:58 PM.
Old 10-23-04, 05:58 PM
  #42  
DVD Talk Hall of Fame
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Seattle
Posts: 8,978
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally posted by Deftones, Esq


The pepper balls are so small and have such a small amount of OC in them that you need a direct person contact w/in the vicinity of their mid to upper torso to be as effective as a spray to the face. So, in your scenario, shooting at someone's feet is ineffective and a waste of time.

I've been hit in the face w/ pepper spray before. Other than the slight skin irritation, it did nothing to me. It effects everyone in a different way. With that said, again I reiterate, shooting towards the ground is a big waste of time and resources.
Well, excuse me for never having been hit with pepper spray before

I'll take your word for it. How many times have you been sprayed? I don't see what's so funny or why you have to reiterate anything.
Old 10-23-04, 06:00 PM
  #43  
DVD Talk Hall of Fame
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Seattle
Posts: 8,978
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally posted by DVD Polizei
It doesn't even matter if she was one of the people throwing bottles, killing her was not an appropriate response.

The World is Square,

Nobody "killed" her on purpose.

She was at the wrong place, at the wrong time. And I disagree. If she WAS one of the people throwing bottles, her death is just fine with me. Non-lethal bottles can kill just like non-lethal pellet guns can.

Who's to blame? The idiots who initiated the violence. Those people are to blame for her death. Those are the fucking idiots.
Thanks for clarifying, because your previous post just said she was an idiot and deserved to die. That's why you got all those responses.
Old 10-23-04, 06:06 PM
  #44  
DVD Talk Godfather
 
DVD Polizei's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 53,753
Received 152 Likes on 112 Posts
Yeah, I know. I get a few "of those" responses from time to time.
Old 10-23-04, 07:06 PM
  #45  
DVD Talk Legend
 
chrisih8u's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: A few miles north of the Cape
Posts: 18,335
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Originally posted by Deftones, Esq
Usually you have to be certified in any weapon you use before they unleash you on teh street.

Here's a quote in today's Globe.

"A tactical response unit officer, who spoke on condition of anonymity, said that only a handful of officers in the unit have received training with the weapons." - Boston Globe, Oct. 23, 2004



IMO, Boston PD should have been more prepared for this situation. That doesnt excuse the assholes who were throwing shit. I place all responsibility on them.


I dont know much about the pepper balls, but I have been sprayed with pepper spray and it sucked! Worst shit ever.
Old 10-23-04, 07:42 PM
  #46  
DVD Talk Godfather
 
DVD Polizei's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 53,753
Received 152 Likes on 112 Posts
I'm kinda confused on the statement by this "Anon" TRU officer, and it might be misleading.

Yes, only a handful of officers are trained, but these same handfuls of officers are the only ones carrying the special weapons. At least one would think. If they aren't, and the weapons are given to just any cop, then we have a problem for sure.

Since Boston was faced with a similar problem earlier in the year, I would have hoped for a bigger police presence, but of course, the BPD would be accused of Nazi Tacticts as everyone got home safely.

Damned if you do, damned if you don't, but if I was the commish, I'd rather error on safety than having an incident like this happen--again.
Old 10-23-04, 08:38 PM
  #47  
DVD Talk Gold Edition
 
visitor Q's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 2,501
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Originally posted by DVD Polizei
- shoot at her feet...shoot below her torso...

Maybe instead of blaming a cop, let's put the responsibility on the dumbasses who initiated the problem in the first place.

Don't wanna get hurt or possibly die--then don't screw around with a bunch of punks who are assaulting cops. I have no problems with her death. She was an idiot.
Yeah ... I would blame it solely on her and friends. Let's just say .. if a Police riot squad were coming up the street that I was on .. I'm pretty sure I'd be moving on outta there in a hurry.

It's a damn shame it was she who took the fall for all these whacked idiots ... and I do have a problem with her death. Exit stage left for someone at such a young age or otherwise is no joke.

The whole incident is a black mark against what should be a positive thing .. then again, that's what's the problem with professional sports, period. Shit, that's why I've turned to DVD. Being a Boston sports fan my entire life .. now that's almost a shame ... but I'm not willing to lose my life over it.
Old 10-28-04, 01:52 PM
  #48  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Emerson College - Boston, MA
Posts: 433
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
As you can see from my location, I go to Emerson, but I didn't know this girl. Although, I do know people who were at Fenway when the accident happened. Everybody says that she was not being violent and was just celebrating peacefully. It seems that she may just have been unlucky.

A lot of the details conflict from person to person, having to do with the bottles thrown and exactly what the situation was. Some people say that the police shouted verbal warnings to get down off the rafters at Fenway before they started shooting - others claim they just opened fire.

Everyone seems to agree that the police used excessive force - they did a much better job controlling the situation last night. But blaming her and calling her an idiot is a bit out of line. Of course, if you're not part of the solution, you're part of the problem - by simply being there, she added to the mob atmosphere. But that doesn't mean she deserved to die.
Old 10-28-04, 02:33 PM
  #49  
DVD Talk Legend
 
Minor Threat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Posts: 13,781
Received 15 Likes on 11 Posts
Mob mentality sucks and so does anyone who partakes in it.....
Old 10-28-04, 03:14 PM
  #50  
DVD Talk Hall of Fame
 
Cusm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: Moore, OK
Posts: 7,650
Received 24 Likes on 16 Posts
Yet one more reason why baseball should be banned all together.

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information -

Copyright 2021 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.