Woman killed by non-lethal weapon
10-23-04, 01:52 PM
#26
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Originally posted by DVD Polizei
Don't wanna get hurt or possibly die--then don't screw around with a bunch of punks who are assaulting cops. I have no problems with her death. She was an idiot.
Such a nice sweet picture of her. Who is she, Mother Teresa now? Please.
Don't wanna get hurt or possibly die--then don't screw around with a bunch of punks who are assaulting cops. I have no problems with her death. She was an idiot.
Such a nice sweet picture of her. Who is she, Mother Teresa now? Please.
A heart of gold this one.
10-23-04, 01:56 PM
#28
Oh I'm sure there will be a nice memorial area by a lamp post, where you can send flowers within 48hrs from now.
10-23-04, 02:28 PM
#29
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Originally posted by DVD Polizei
Deftones, Esq
I agree with the toxicity of tear gas, but riddle me this. What's the first thing a crowd does when tear gas is fired at them.
Tear gas is only meant in extreme situations where the police force cannot contain the crowd--cannot move it where they want to, and the crowd must be split. Obviously, using tear gas in situations varies with police dept. and incident.
Pepper spray is nice, but you have to get closer to the actual person you want to hit--which is an interesting coincidence with this recent incident, no?
Deftones, Esq
I agree with the toxicity of tear gas, but riddle me this. What's the first thing a crowd does when tear gas is fired at them.
Tear gas is only meant in extreme situations where the police force cannot contain the crowd--cannot move it where they want to, and the crowd must be split. Obviously, using tear gas in situations varies with police dept. and incident.
Pepper spray is nice, but you have to get closer to the actual person you want to hit--which is an interesting coincidence with this recent incident, no?
As for the stampede issue, I again will tell you that is not the reason why it is used.
I've seen crowds turn into panic just simply when large volumes of pepper spray is used, so that theory doensn't really hold water.
As for the range issue, that is a determining factor, however they have fire extinguisher sized canisters that can shoot over 20 feet into a crowd. Furthermore, that is why these less lethal weapons are being developed so that their range is dramatically increased (i.e. the OC pellets that killed the woman).
Last edited by Deftones, Esq; 10-23-04 at 02:31 PM.
10-23-04, 02:44 PM
#30
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most of the time I hear these refered to as less lethal, notice the lack of than
less than lethal still implies they're never lethal to the average sheep
less lethal implies it won't kill as easily as a bullet but still will kill in some situations
unless it can be proven the cop was aiming at her head I'm not blaiming the cops
less than lethal still implies they're never lethal to the average sheep
less lethal implies it won't kill as easily as a bullet but still will kill in some situations
unless it can be proven the cop was aiming at her head I'm not blaiming the cops
10-23-04, 02:59 PM
#31
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Originally posted by MACD23
witnesses around the incident are saying the crowd surrounded a group of officers and some jackasses started firing bottles and bricks at police, getting the horses riled up and scared as well........at that point an officer began firing these pepper bullets into the crowd at will and one struck this woman in the eye.she was simply standing in a group of friends, doing nothing wrong.......the crowd was massive, so there wasn't much she could do to "get out of the way" of the trouble makers.
witnesses around the incident are saying the crowd surrounded a group of officers and some jackasses started firing bottles and bricks at police, getting the horses riled up and scared as well........at that point an officer began firing these pepper bullets into the crowd at will and one struck this woman in the eye.she was simply standing in a group of friends, doing nothing wrong.......the crowd was massive, so there wasn't much she could do to "get out of the way" of the trouble makers.
Thats the way I understand the situation, too. I wonder how much training Boston PD had with these new weapons. I doubt it was alot.
10-23-04, 03:00 PM
#32
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Originally posted by chrisih8u
Thats the way I understand the situation, too. I wonder how much training Boston PD had with these new weapons. I doubt it was alot.
Thats the way I understand the situation, too. I wonder how much training Boston PD had with these new weapons. I doubt it was alot.
10-23-04, 03:03 PM
#33
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Originally posted by Deftones, Esq
Usually you have to be certified in any weapon you use before they unleash you on teh street.
Usually you have to be certified in any weapon you use before they unleash you on teh street.
Being certified with a weapon and knowing how and when to use it correctly can be very different.
These weapons were bought for the DNC, but they didnt have to use them.
10-23-04, 03:06 PM
#34
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Originally posted by chrisih8u
Being certified with a weapon and knowing how and when to use it correctly can be very different. These weapons were bought for the DNC, but they didnt have to use them.
Being certified with a weapon and knowing how and when to use it correctly can be very different.
These weapons were bought for the DNC, but they didnt have to use them.
10-23-04, 03:54 PM
#36
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Whoever has no problem with this girl dying is a fucking idiot with no sense of right and wrong. It doesn't even matter if she was one of the people throwing bottles, killing her was not an appropriate response. (For the record, I don't think that she was involved in the bottle throwing or that the police killed her on purpose).
10-23-04, 04:43 PM
#37
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Originally posted by Deftones, Esq
No, they couldn't. The dispersion area for those is extremely small. You need to hit center mass for them to be effective.
No, they couldn't. The dispersion area for those is extremely small. You need to hit center mass for them to be effective.
Really? I didn't know that. One time they evacuated Westlake Mall in downtown Seattle and people were saying it had something to do with pepper spray. But if it's that ineffective, they should probably use something else.
10-23-04, 04:49 PM
#38
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Originally posted by DVD Polizei
Maybe instead of blaming a cop, let's put the responsibility on the dumbasses who initiated the problem in the first place.
Maybe instead of blaming a cop, let's put the responsibility on the dumbasses who initiated the problem in the first place.
10-23-04, 05:06 PM
#39
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Originally posted by DVD Polizei
Don't wanna get hurt or possibly die--then don't screw around with a bunch of punks who are assaulting cops. I have no problems with her death. She was an idiot.
Such a nice sweet picture of her. Who is she, Mother Teresa now? Please.
Don't wanna get hurt or possibly die--then don't screw around with a bunch of punks who are assaulting cops. I have no problems with her death. She was an idiot.
Such a nice sweet picture of her. Who is she, Mother Teresa now? Please.
10-23-04, 05:33 PM
#40
DVD Talk God
Originally posted by Roto
Really? I didn't know that. One time they evacuated Westlake Mall in downtown Seattle and people were saying it had something to do with pepper spray.
But if it's that ineffective, they should probably use something else.
Really? I didn't know that. One time they evacuated Westlake Mall in downtown Seattle and people were saying it had something to do with pepper spray. But if it's that ineffective, they should probably use something else.
The pepper balls are so small and have such a small amount of OC in them that you need a direct person contact w/in the vicinity of their mid to upper torso to be as effective as a spray to the face. So, in your scenario, shooting at someone's feet is ineffective and a waste of time.
I've been hit in the face w/ pepper spray before. Other than the slight skin irritation, it did nothing to me. It effects everyone in a different way. With that said, again I reiterate, shooting towards the ground is a big waste of time and resources.
10-23-04, 05:51 PM
#41
It doesn't even matter if she was one of the people throwing bottles, killing her was not an appropriate response.
The World is Square,
Nobody "killed" her on purpose.
She was at the wrong place, at the wrong time. And I disagree. If she WAS one of the people throwing bottles, her death is just fine with me. Non-lethal bottles can kill just like non-lethal pellet guns can.
Who's to blame? The idiots who initiated the violence. Those people are to blame for her death. Those are the fucking idiots.
MoviePage,
Actually, that's an interesting statement, because Fidel Castro broke a few bones and several people on this forum showed an amazing amount of insensitivity. Just depends on who you like, and since you're new here, you'll figure it out.
Stupidity has little tolerance on this forum, at least by me, and I won't be wearing ribbons in memory of her death, or marching down Boston Ave, arms hooked with civil rights leaders, proclaiming police have gone awry.
Let's start making those who initiated and participated in the violence, which resulted in her death, legally responsible.
The World is Square,
Nobody "killed" her on purpose.
She was at the wrong place, at the wrong time. And I disagree. If she WAS one of the people throwing bottles, her death is just fine with me. Non-lethal bottles can kill just like non-lethal pellet guns can.
Who's to blame? The idiots who initiated the violence. Those people are to blame for her death. Those are the fucking idiots.
MoviePage,
Actually, that's an interesting statement, because Fidel Castro broke a few bones and several people on this forum showed an amazing amount of insensitivity. Just depends on who you like, and since you're new here, you'll figure it out.
Stupidity has little tolerance on this forum, at least by me, and I won't be wearing ribbons in memory of her death, or marching down Boston Ave, arms hooked with civil rights leaders, proclaiming police have gone awry.
Let's start making those who initiated and participated in the violence, which resulted in her death, legally responsible.
Last edited by DVD Polizei; 10-23-04 at 05:58 PM.
10-23-04, 05:58 PM
#42
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Originally posted by Deftones, Esq
The pepper balls are so small and have such a small amount of OC in them that you need a direct person contact w/in the vicinity of their mid to upper torso to be as effective as a spray to the face. So, in your scenario, shooting at someone's feet is ineffective and a waste of time.
I've been hit in the face w/ pepper spray before. Other than the slight skin irritation, it did nothing to me. It effects everyone in a different way. With that said, again I reiterate, shooting towards the ground is a big waste of time and resources.
The pepper balls are so small and have such a small amount of OC in them that you need a direct person contact w/in the vicinity of their mid to upper torso to be as effective as a spray to the face. So, in your scenario, shooting at someone's feet is ineffective and a waste of time.
I've been hit in the face w/ pepper spray before. Other than the slight skin irritation, it did nothing to me. It effects everyone in a different way. With that said, again I reiterate, shooting towards the ground is a big waste of time and resources.
I'll take your word for it. How many times have you been sprayed? I don't see what's so funny or why you have to reiterate anything.
10-23-04, 06:00 PM
#43
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Originally posted by DVD Polizei
It doesn't even matter if she was one of the people throwing bottles, killing her was not an appropriate response.
The World is Square,
Nobody "killed" her on purpose.
She was at the wrong place, at the wrong time. And I disagree. If she WAS one of the people throwing bottles, her death is just fine with me. Non-lethal bottles can kill just like non-lethal pellet guns can.
Who's to blame? The idiots who initiated the violence. Those people are to blame for her death. Those are the fucking idiots.
It doesn't even matter if she was one of the people throwing bottles, killing her was not an appropriate response.
The World is Square,
Nobody "killed" her on purpose.
She was at the wrong place, at the wrong time. And I disagree. If she WAS one of the people throwing bottles, her death is just fine with me. Non-lethal bottles can kill just like non-lethal pellet guns can.
Who's to blame? The idiots who initiated the violence. Those people are to blame for her death. Those are the fucking idiots.
10-23-04, 06:06 PM
#44
Yeah, I know. I get a few "of those" responses from time to time.
10-23-04, 07:06 PM
#45
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Originally posted by Deftones, Esq
Usually you have to be certified in any weapon you use before they unleash you on teh street.
Usually you have to be certified in any weapon you use before they unleash you on teh street.
Here's a quote in today's Globe.
"A tactical response unit officer, who spoke on condition of anonymity, said that only a handful of officers in the unit have received training with the weapons." - Boston Globe, Oct. 23, 2004
IMO, Boston PD should have been more prepared for this situation. That doesnt excuse the assholes who were throwing shit. I place all responsibility on them.
I dont know much about the pepper balls, but I have been sprayed with pepper spray and it sucked! Worst shit ever.
10-23-04, 07:42 PM
#46
I'm kinda confused on the statement by this "Anon" TRU officer, and it might be misleading.
Yes, only a handful of officers are trained, but these same handfuls of officers are the only ones carrying the special weapons. At least one would think. If they aren't, and the weapons are given to just any cop, then we have a problem for sure.
Since Boston was faced with a similar problem earlier in the year, I would have hoped for a bigger police presence, but of course, the BPD would be accused of Nazi Tacticts as everyone got home safely.
Damned if you do, damned if you don't, but if I was the commish, I'd rather error on safety than having an incident like this happen--again.
Yes, only a handful of officers are trained, but these same handfuls of officers are the only ones carrying the special weapons. At least one would think. If they aren't, and the weapons are given to just any cop, then we have a problem for sure.
Since Boston was faced with a similar problem earlier in the year, I would have hoped for a bigger police presence, but of course, the BPD would be accused of Nazi Tacticts as everyone got home safely.
Damned if you do, damned if you don't, but if I was the commish, I'd rather error on safety than having an incident like this happen--again.
10-23-04, 08:38 PM
#47
Originally posted by DVD Polizei
- shoot at her feet...shoot below her torso...
Maybe instead of blaming a cop, let's put the responsibility on the dumbasses who initiated the problem in the first place.
Don't wanna get hurt or possibly die--then don't screw around with a bunch of punks who are assaulting cops. I have no problems with her death. She was an idiot.
- shoot at her feet...shoot below her torso...Maybe instead of blaming a cop, let's put the responsibility on the dumbasses who initiated the problem in the first place.
Don't wanna get hurt or possibly die--then don't screw around with a bunch of punks who are assaulting cops. I have no problems with her death. She was an idiot.
It's a damn shame it was she who took the fall for all these whacked idiots ... and I do have a problem with her death. Exit stage left for someone at such a young age or otherwise is no joke.
The whole incident is a black mark against what should be a positive thing .. then again, that's what's the problem with professional sports, period. Shit, that's why I've turned to DVD. Being a Boston sports fan my entire life .. now that's almost a shame ... but I'm not willing to lose my life over it.
10-28-04, 01:52 PM
#48
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As you can see from my location, I go to Emerson, but I didn't know this girl. Although, I do know people who were at Fenway when the accident happened. Everybody says that she was not being violent and was just celebrating peacefully. It seems that she may just have been unlucky.
A lot of the details conflict from person to person, having to do with the bottles thrown and exactly what the situation was. Some people say that the police shouted verbal warnings to get down off the rafters at Fenway before they started shooting - others claim they just opened fire.
Everyone seems to agree that the police used excessive force - they did a much better job controlling the situation last night. But blaming her and calling her an idiot is a bit out of line. Of course, if you're not part of the solution, you're part of the problem - by simply being there, she added to the mob atmosphere. But that doesn't mean she deserved to die.
A lot of the details conflict from person to person, having to do with the bottles thrown and exactly what the situation was. Some people say that the police shouted verbal warnings to get down off the rafters at Fenway before they started shooting - others claim they just opened fire.
Everyone seems to agree that the police used excessive force - they did a much better job controlling the situation last night. But blaming her and calling her an idiot is a bit out of line. Of course, if you're not part of the solution, you're part of the problem - by simply being there, she added to the mob atmosphere. But that doesn't mean she deserved to die.
10-28-04, 03:14 PM
#50
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Yet one more reason why baseball should be banned all together.
