Go Back  DVD Talk Forum > General Discussions > Other Talk
Reload this Page >

what can be done about "victory riots"?

Other Talk "Otterville" plus Religion/Politics

what can be done about "victory riots"?

Old 10-22-04, 04:18 PM
  #1  
DVD Talk Legend
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: frass canyon
Posts: 16,249
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
what can be done about "victory riots"?

I've never been retarded enough to be involved in one, but it seems like they probably start out peacefully, people jumping up and down happy that their teams won, then things just escalate into madness.

police try to keep order, but having hundreds of policemen in riot gear and tear gas just seems like it would agitate the drunk asshats. Extra police presence almost makes things worse.

Is there anything that can be done to prevent them?
Old 10-22-04, 04:21 PM
  #2  
DVD Talk Hero
 
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: Montreal, Canada
Posts: 30,086
Received 5 Likes on 3 Posts
Ask John kerry, I'm sure he has a plan.
Old 10-22-04, 04:23 PM
  #3  
DVD Talk God
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Directionally Challenged (for DirecTV)
Posts: 123,175
Likes: 0
Received 3 Likes on 3 Posts
I don't know. I think we should ask the Brits for advice. They seem to have a good handle on things after soccer games.

Last edited by Red Dog; 10-22-04 at 04:29 PM.
Old 10-22-04, 04:27 PM
  #4  
DVD Talk Platinum Edition
 
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: Chicago
Posts: 3,688
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Lose?
Old 10-22-04, 04:30 PM
  #5  
DVD Talk Hero
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: MI
Posts: 25,060
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
No alcohol at the game? Of course, that would cut into the stadium's beer sales, and probably ticket sales.
Old 10-22-04, 04:33 PM
  #6  
DVD Talk God
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Directionally Challenged (for DirecTV)
Posts: 123,175
Likes: 0
Received 3 Likes on 3 Posts
Originally posted by OldDude
No alcohol at the game? Of course, that would cut into the stadium's beer sales, and probably ticket sales.

Aren't the Sox not selling alcohol during the Series. Somehow, I don't think it will effect ticket sales.
Old 10-22-04, 04:33 PM
  #7  
DVD Talk Godfather
 
DVD Polizei's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 52,603
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Make it a Class A Felony if arrested during a "victory riot".

Advertise on all news channels about the law, and in newspapers.

Then enforce the new law with vigilance.

Last edited by DVD Polizei; 10-22-04 at 04:36 PM.
Old 10-22-04, 04:35 PM
  #8  
DVD Talk God
 
Deftones's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: Arizona
Posts: 74,982
Likes: 0
Received 4 Likes on 3 Posts
Originally posted by Red Dog
Aren't the Sox not selling alcohol during the Series. Somehow, I don't think it will effect ticket sales.
Yeah, especially when they have about 15,000 less seats than any other stadium.
Old 10-22-04, 04:36 PM
  #9  
DVD Talk Legend
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: frass canyon
Posts: 16,249
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally posted by OldDude
No alcohol at the game? Of course, that would cut into the stadium's beer sales, and probably ticket sales.
do you have any idea how much WS tickets are going for? it's not the suits inside the stadium that were causing the problems in Kemore, it was the idiot college kids, most of which probably didn't even grow up in New England.
Old 10-22-04, 04:39 PM
  #10  
DVD Talk God
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Directionally Challenged (for DirecTV)
Posts: 123,175
Likes: 0
Received 3 Likes on 3 Posts
Originally posted by DVD Polizei
Make it a Class A Felony if arrested during a "victory riot".

Advertise on all news channels about the law, and in newspapers.

Then enforce the new law with vigilance.

Arrested for what?

If someone vandalizes a car during a non-'riot', the penalty should be no different than if that someone vandalizes a car during a 'riot.'
Old 10-22-04, 04:40 PM
  #11  
DVD Talk Hero
 
El Scorcho's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 39,628
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
The use of blunt force (such as batons) should be authorized.

When I was a kid, I calmed down if I knew an ass-whoopin was possible.
Old 10-22-04, 04:41 PM
  #12  
DVD Talk Gold Edition
 
mike45's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Earth
Posts: 2,309
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Lots of tear gas, water cannons and rubber bullets. Live ammo? No, too drastic.
Old 10-22-04, 04:42 PM
  #13  
DVD Talk Legend
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: frass canyon
Posts: 16,249
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally posted by Red Dog
Arrested for what?

If someone vandalizes a car during a non-'riot', the penalty should be no different than if that someone vandalizes a car during a 'riot.'
in theory, yes.

but vandalizing a car during a 'riot' also entices further destruction.
Old 10-22-04, 04:50 PM
  #14  
DVD Talk Legend
 
Join Date: Jun 1999
Location: USA
Posts: 12,272
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
You cannot legislate morals and common sense
Old 10-22-04, 04:53 PM
  #15  
DVD Talk Godfather
 
DVD Polizei's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 52,603
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Red Dog,

Wrong.

So, what you're saying is, all laws should be entirely equal, no matter what the political or religious circumstances are, or the circumstances of that crime. Well, you better throw out the baby with the bathwater, 'cause that's all US laws are: circumstancial laws, depending on the elements of the crime, which can be political, religious, and situation-specific.

Brian Shannon,

Actually, you can. And the US legislature does on a regular basis. Whether or not it's effective that's one argument, but can it be done? Yep.

Last edited by DVD Polizei; 10-22-04 at 04:59 PM.
Old 10-22-04, 05:00 PM
  #16  
DVD Talk God
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Directionally Challenged (for DirecTV)
Posts: 123,175
Likes: 0
Received 3 Likes on 3 Posts
Originally posted by DVD Polizei
Red Dog,

Wrong.

So, what you're saying is, all laws should be entirely equal, no matter what the political or religious circumstances are, or the circumstances of that crime. Well, you better throw out the baby with the bathwater, 'cause that's all US laws are.

Not sure what you are saying. Should the penalty for murder equal the penalty for theft? No of course not.

However, for example, if someone commits 1st degree murder to rob someone, the penalty for that should be the same for someone who commits 1st degree murder by killing someone because he is gay (hate crime). A person is dead either way. The motivation for the crime should not change the penalty for the crime.

Now - degrees of murder and manslaughter should obviously come with different penalties. Motive and intent are different animals. Lack of premeditation and/or intent makes a big difference.

In vandalism example given, during a riot, you intend to damage the car. During a non-riot, you intend to damage a car. Where is the difference?

Just because that's the way it is (believe me, I am well-aware as a lawyer), doesn't make it right or logical.

Last edited by Red Dog; 10-22-04 at 05:06 PM.
Old 10-22-04, 05:01 PM
  #17  
Moderator
 
nemein's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: 1bit away from total disaster
Posts: 34,150
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally posted by RoyalTea
in theory, yes.

but vandalizing a car during a 'riot' also entices further destruction.
Yes but then you charge them w/ "vandalism", "destruction of property" and "inciting a riot". You don't need different penalties, just keep tacking on the charges and most importantly actually enforce the laws.

Personally though I'd start looking into some of the new nonleath techniques like the sonic emitters and hardening foam. As was apperantly shown in Boston the other day even non-lethal projectiles can cause problems.
Old 10-22-04, 05:05 PM
  #18  
DVD Talk God
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Directionally Challenged (for DirecTV)
Posts: 123,175
Likes: 0
Received 3 Likes on 3 Posts
Originally posted by nemein
Yes but then you charge them w/ "vandalism", "destruction of property" and "inciting a riot". You don't need different penalties, just keep tacking on the charges and most importantly actually enforce the laws.

I would agree with this. If it can be proven that the vandal incited others to do the same and cause more damage, then no problem.
Old 10-22-04, 05:16 PM
  #19  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: Burbanka
Posts: 993
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Maybe a rubber bullet to the eye?
Old 10-22-04, 05:18 PM
  #20  
DVD Talk Godfather
 
DVD Polizei's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 52,603
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
nemein,

You forget that "just tacking on charges" can be illegal. And a half-wit defense attorney will reduce those charges to a mere fine. That's why you need a specific special law for this kind of behavior.

I call it, the Victory Act.

Red Dog,

Well, since you're familiar with laws, then let me elaborate. You know there are cases where special circumstances should apply, and cases where they should not. Laws are made because of a society and community who want something done for a particular situation. True, "rioting" is in itself, a special circumstance law, because a person normally kicking a waste basket on the street at a non-riot period, would probably not be charged.

However, what I am saying is, just increase the rioting penalty to Class A Felony. More reasonable would be Class C Felony. But, at least make it a Felony if you are proven to have participated in a Victory Riot. By proven, I mean being arrested at the scene of a known victory event. Doesn't matter if you're just standing with the crowd and not doing a thing. Just being with the crowd will get you a harsh penalty.

And yes, I'm all for making it a Felony to participate in ANY riot, however, the police and the law, need to make a distinction and need to have some leverage when it comes to enforcing the law.

Laws are made to be specific for a specific act. This prevents civil unrest. If you were to apply a felony towards any kind of rioting, you would have the ACLU, and just about every civil rights group knocking at your door, screaming "Stalin!".

That's why the law needs to be specific. You can't have sweeping laws on crime and expect a favorable result. It must be surgical and target a specific event and/or circumstance. Rioting laws are indeed specific, but apparently, as shown and demonstrated by modern society behavior, we need something even more specific.

If you're a practicing criminal attorney, just take a look at your collection of state statutes for 2004. The reason for the mountainous and endless volumes, is because of specific laws for specific events, and specific behaviors.

Last edited by DVD Polizei; 10-22-04 at 05:20 PM.
Old 10-22-04, 05:18 PM
  #21  
Moderator
 
nemein's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: 1bit away from total disaster
Posts: 34,150
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally posted by warcp
Maybe a rubber bullet to the eye?
That's what happened in Boston

http://www.fresnobee.com/24hour/spor...-9599996c.html
BOSTON (AP) - A college student celebrating the Boston Red Sox's come-from-behind victory over the New York Yankees was killed after a police officer called in to control a rowdy crowd shot her in the eye with what was designed to be a non-lethal projectile.

...
Old 10-22-04, 05:21 PM
  #22  
DVD Talk Godfather
 
DVD Polizei's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 52,603
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
That's why I'm against using any kind of force. Put the responsibility on the CROWD, not the police. Increase the penalty to a felony, and people might think twice about acting stupid.
Old 10-22-04, 05:24 PM
  #23  
DVD Talk Limited Edition
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: BV VA
Posts: 6,071
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Personally until alcohol is taken out of the picture things like this will never cease. I guess it's unfair for me to look at it this way because I'm practically the same when I'm drunk or sober. Now we've all been around the crazy drunk people who are just plain stupid when drinking. What I think is all these people are the ones in the streets after a party. One does something crazy and stupid and it's like falling dominos after that.

Like street full of Lemmings following the leader.
Old 10-22-04, 05:28 PM
  #24  
DVD Talk Godfather
 
DVD Polizei's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 52,603
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
And how do you realistically take alcohol out of the picture? That's an unrealistic idea. Banning alcohol won't do squat, but squeeze the seasonal businesses dry and encourage people to sell alcohol illegally. Alcohol will still be present.

Put the responsibility on the damn rioters.

Also, many rioters are not even drunk. They just use the opportunity to be a dumbass and act out their rage on other people's property.
Old 10-22-04, 06:19 PM
  #25  
DVD Talk Hero
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Bartertown due to it having a better economy than where I really live, Buffalo NY
Posts: 29,706
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
I doubt adjusting the penalty would have much affect, well it might cut down on repeat offenders, but not much affect on first time rioters. these people aren't thinking about the law, and I have a feeling if you asked them before they got drunk what the penalty was they'd think it already was a felony
in NY it is if there are more than 10 people and there are injuries or property damage
S 240.06 Riot in the first degree.
A person is guilty of riot in the first degree when (a) simultaneously
with ten or more other persons he engages in tumultouous and violent
conduct and thereby intentionally or recklessly causes or creates a
grave risk of causing public alarm, and (b) in the course of and as a
result of such conduct, a person other than one of the participants
suffers physical injury or substantial property damage occurs.
Riot in the first degree is a class E felony.
Originally posted by DVD Polizei
That's why I'm against using any kind of force. Put the responsibility on the CROWD, not the police. Increase the penalty to a felony, and people might think twice about acting stupid.

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information

Copyright 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.