Go Back  DVD Talk Forum > General Discussions > Other Talk
Reload this Page >

Bush to Unveil Privatization of Social Security Scheme at RNC

Other Talk "Otterville" plus Religion/Politics

Bush to Unveil Privatization of Social Security Scheme at RNC

Old 08-29-04, 08:42 AM
  #1  
DVD Talk God
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jun 1999
Posts: 68,522
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Bush to Unveil Privatization of Social Security Scheme at RNC

TROY, Ohio President Bush plans to offer specific policy proposals on Social Security and other issues during his speech at the Republican National Convention, a top adviser said Saturday.

Karen Hughes hinted that Bush would disclose a plan for partial privatization of Social Security. "You just heard him talk about an ownership society," Hughes told reporters. "He wants to give a chance for younger workers to own a piece of their own retirement."

Previous Bush administration proposals on Social Security privatization have found little traction in Congress. Critics say privatizing the federal pension program could bring drastic cuts in benefits for future retirees.

Hughes said Bush also wants to emphasize foreign policy in the speech.

During a speech-editing session on Friday, Hughes said, Bush told his speechwriters to accentuate the "transformational power of liberty." She said Bush will argue that freedom and democracy are the best weapons against terror.

Security was a major theme along with education as Bush set out Saturday on a pre-convention campaign tour of Ohio, which he narrowly won four years ago.

Bush said he was the candidate to keep America secure and to improve education. Praising the "No Child Left Behind" law, a keynote of his presidency, Bush said he wants to invest more to connect schools to the Internet and to improve math and science teaching.

"We're closing the achievement gap in America, but there's more to do," Bush told the crowd after being interrupted by choreographed chants of "Four More Years!"

Critics complain that the Bush administration and the Republican-controlled Congress have failed to provide the nation's schools with enough money to meet federal requirements of the No Child Left Behind Act. Thus, they say, local school districts face onerous budget problems.

Bush also criticized Democratic nominee John Kerry's pledge to eliminate some of Bush 's tax cuts for the richest Americans should Kerry become president.

"We said, `If we're going to provide tax relief, everybody who pays gets relief,"' Bush said. "We're not going to play politics with your wallet."

The Kerry campaign was quick to react. Spokesman Phil Singer said, "Once again we're seeing George Bush mislead America. The fact is that John Kerry wants to cut taxes for 98 percent of Americans, while George Bush's tax policies have shifted more of the tax burden on to middle-class America. With George Bush's tax cuts, the overwhelming majority of Americans end up losing."
_______________

Forget the 'swift boat' and what happened 35 years ago controversy - concentrate on what Bush has in mind for this country's future. Apparently one thing - the destruction of Social Security.

Previous Bush administration proposals on Social Security privatization have found little traction in Congress. Critics say privatizing the federal pension program could bring drastic cuts in benefits for future retirees.

The Kerry campaign was quick to react. Spokesman Phil Singer said, "Once again we're seeing George Bush mislead America. The fact is that John Kerry wants to cut taxes for 98 percent of Americans, while George Bush's tax policies have shifted more of the tax burden on to middle-class America. With George Bush's tax cuts, the overwhelming majority of Americans end up losing."

Last edited by classicman2; 08-29-04 at 08:45 AM.
Old 08-29-04, 09:05 AM
  #2  
DVD Talk Hero
 
Join Date: Nov 1999
Posts: 36,981
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
its my money, right? shouldn't I be able to decide what to do with it?

I trust myself more than I trust the government



cman, aren't you the one always advocating for a cut in FICA taxes?
Old 08-29-04, 09:08 AM
  #3  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Palm Beach County, Florida
Posts: 883
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
I've always felt that privatization of Social Security was the best way to actually "save" it.

Also, correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't participation optional? It's not like the govt. will be forcing people to manage their own money in the account. If you're not comfortable doing that, you can always keep things the way they are (and be the poorer for it).

Most people I know feel this very same way.
Old 08-29-04, 09:11 AM
  #4  
DVD Talk Hero
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: MI
Posts: 25,060
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Sweet, although I'm probably too old to get in on it.

Since I paid the Ponzi scheme my whole work life, I want what's due me though.

On the income tax cuts, I'm miles from Kerry's 2% who make over $200K, but I am in the 14% of American households making over $100K and I'm pretty happy with my piece of the pie from the Bush tax cut. I'm pretty sure Kerry would vote for me now when it doesn't count and against me later when it does, waffling SOB.
Old 08-29-04, 09:35 AM
  #5  
DVD Talk God
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jun 1999
Posts: 68,522
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally posted by Venusian
its my money, right? shouldn't I be able to decide what to do with it?

I trust myself more than I trust the government



cman, aren't you the one always advocating for a cut in FICA taxes?
You can make the argument that income taxes you pay is your money, right? Shouldn't you be able to decide what to do with it?

I have never advocated a cut in FICA taxes. I have, on numerous occasions, pointed out how hypocritical the Repubs are about their tax cuts that benefit everybody (so they claim) when 3/4 of the American people pay more in FICA than they do in income tax. I don't them rushing proposals to congress to reduce the FICA tax. Why? There's only one conclusion a reasonable individual can make. The Repubs only feel the pain of you know who.
Old 08-29-04, 09:44 AM
  #6  
DVD Talk Hero
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: MI
Posts: 25,060
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
FICA is not a tax, it is a (crappy) retirement plan. Your benefits are linearly proportional to what you pay in. Cut the tax, cut the benefit.

Granted, the money you put in is used now for present retirees, and what you get back is from future workers. That is why it is a Ponzi scheme, and a poor one to boot.
Old 08-29-04, 09:47 AM
  #7  
DVD Talk God
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jun 1999
Posts: 68,522
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
A much better approach for the vast majority of Americans - simply remove the earnings cap on which FICA taxes are paid. If you make a million per year - you pay FICA taxes on that million. Of course it will never happen as long as the Repubs have control of congress.

Moral: If you want real Social Security reform that will work - remove the Repubs from power.
Old 08-29-04, 09:50 AM
  #8  
DVD Talk God
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jun 1999
Posts: 68,522
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
For the 1,358th time: Social Seurity IS NOT a retirement plan - never has been.
Old 08-29-04, 09:55 AM
  #9  
DVD Talk Hero
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: MI
Posts: 25,060
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
It is from the individual's perspective. You "invest" money while working, you get money back out when you retire. A rate of return can be calculated on the cash flow, and returns are proportional to money invested and other factors. "If it quacks like a duck."

It just happens to be a bad retirement plan as far as rate of return compared to a private plan, and unsustainable, like all Ponzi schemes. I know what you are saying, but it also has retirement plan elements. (although I suspect we disagree on this issue.)
Old 08-29-04, 09:57 AM
  #10  
DVD Talk Hero
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: MI
Posts: 25,060
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally posted by classicman2
A much better approach for the vast majority of Americans - simply remove the earnings cap on which FICA taxes are paid. If you make a million per year - you pay FICA taxes on that million. Of course it will never happen as long as the Repubs have control of congress.
Would that remove the benefit cap? It would still be a bad plan and compu;sory investment in a bad plan is bad, but at least it would be "fair"
Old 08-29-04, 10:24 AM
  #11  
DVD Talk God
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jun 1999
Posts: 68,522
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Social Security: The best deal on the planet for the average American. Now it may not be for Bill Gates, but it is for Joe Six Pack.

Of course one of the major parties is not interested in what's good for Joe Six Pack. That party, however, is vitally interested in Bill Gates and his ilk. If you doubt it, look at that party's production.
Old 08-29-04, 10:40 AM
  #12  
bhk
DVD Talk Legend
 
Join Date: May 1999
Location: Right of Atilla The Hun
Posts: 19,749
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Soc. Security is far from the best deal on the planet for average Americans. Putting the same amount of money that goes into soc. security into long term CD's would give people a lot more money on payout than the paltry interest you get with soc. security. The whole scheme is based on people dying before they collect the full amount that they put in. The problem with that is that instead of people dying in their 60's and 70's they are dying in their 80's and 90's.
Old 08-29-04, 10:44 AM
  #13  
DVD Talk Hero
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: MI
Posts: 25,060
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally posted by bhk
The problem with that is that instead of people dying in their 60's and 70's they are dying in their 80's and 90's.
Actually, the elderly think that's a good thing, not a bad thing!

(But it does require different investment decisions.)
Old 08-29-04, 10:48 AM
  #14  
bhk
DVD Talk Legend
 
Join Date: May 1999
Location: Right of Atilla The Hun
Posts: 19,749
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
I should have said: "the problem for the govt. now is that...."
Old 08-29-04, 10:54 AM
  #15  
DVD Talk God
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jun 1999
Posts: 68,522
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Investing in a CD or whatever doesn't provide disability protection & the myriad of other protections that social security provides.

If the conservatives could ever come to the realty that social security is a social insurance plan and not a retirement plan, then maybe they could talk about it with a little more understanding of what's happening & far less confusion.
Old 08-29-04, 11:06 AM
  #16  
DVD Talk Hero
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: Words
Posts: 28,207
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Privatize it, I trust my judgement, more than I do the gov't.

-pedagogue
Old 08-29-04, 11:12 AM
  #17  
DVD Talk Hero
 
CRM114's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Posts: 42,731
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
I agree with c-man on this one (even though he confessed that he'd be voting for Bush and this hokey plan in Nov). I'm happy to pay into Social Security as long as they can figure out how to make it available for everyone paying in. As for privatization, thats why I pay weekly into my pension and 403(b) and why my wife pays weekly into her 401(k). If something catastrophic happens, at least we have the Social Security money down the road.

The privatization scheme has Wall St drooling. They want your money badly and the Republicans will try their darndest to accomodate them.

Last edited by CRM114; 08-29-04 at 11:17 AM.
Old 08-29-04, 11:15 AM
  #18  
DVD Talk Hero
 
CRM114's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Posts: 42,731
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally posted by pedagogue
Privatize it, I trust my judgement, more than I do the gov't.
How many people do you know that got jilted of their benefit? What "judgement" are you questioning?

If you want to question judgement, Enron seemed like a damned good company to invest in a few years back.
Old 08-29-04, 11:22 AM
  #19  
DVD Talk Limited Edition
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Malvern, PA
Posts: 5,013
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
'bout time.
Old 08-29-04, 11:25 AM
  #20  
DVD Talk Legend
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 17,205
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
This could be another (needed) jolt for the stock market.
Old 08-29-04, 11:33 AM
  #21  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2000
Location: Arlington, VA
Posts: 867
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
If this privatization plan is like the others, allowing people to invest 2% in some sort of government approved investments, it will do nothing for the majority of workers. The current retirees, and all those who have been paying into the system, will need to be paid no matter what, forget about seeing the amount you pay in FICA taxes going down. Even the 6.25% won't be enough to cover the benefits for the baby boomers, unless someone has the balls to either increase the age requirement, or reduce benefits.

What you will be more likely to see is a proposal to keep the 6.25% to fund the current system, and another 2% added on to fund the private accounts. The current generation of payers will lose no matter what.

The only plans that could possibly cut FICA costs would be removing the earnings cap, or means testing benefits. Neither is likely to happen. I think means testing would be the best way, but then people would have to accept as fact the unmentionable truth about Social Security, that it is a welfare program. I happen to believe it's a necessary welfare program, but trying to continue on with the belief that it should be anything else will eventually kill it.
Old 08-29-04, 11:36 AM
  #22  
Moderator
 
Groucho's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Salt Lake City, Utah
Posts: 70,865
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
I'd love to "opt out" of Social Security myself, and handle it all personally. But I also know that if the government offers any options in Social Security, the retirees who fuck it up will demand compensation.

"I didn't earn it, I don't need it, but if they miss one payment I'll raise hell."
Old 08-29-04, 11:39 AM
  #23  
DVD Talk Hero
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: MI
Posts: 25,060
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally posted by CRM114
If you want to question judgement, Enron seemed like a damned good company to invest in a few years back.
Every financial planner and every article on financial planning stresses a diversified portfolio; certainly no more than 10%, if that much, in any single narrow investment. You could still pick 10 losers and lose everything, I suppose, but the odds are against it. Putting everything into Enron (or any other single investment) is the very epitome of bad judgement, regardless of how good it looked for awhile. I feel quite comfortably questioning that judgement.

Good investments return enough more than SS that you could afford to have an Enron in the mix and still come out ahead.
Old 08-29-04, 11:40 AM
  #24  
DVD Talk Hero
 
CRM114's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Posts: 42,731
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally posted by Groucho
I'd love to "opt out" of Social Security myself, and handle it all personally. But I also know that if the government offers any options in Social Security, the retirees who fuck it up will demand compensation.

"I didn't earn it, I don't need it, but if they miss one payment I'll raise hell."
So who pays for your geriatric ass if YOU fuck it up?
Old 08-29-04, 11:45 AM
  #25  
DVD Talk God
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jun 1999
Posts: 68,522
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
But I also know that if the government offers any options in Social Security, the retirees who fuck it up will demand compensation.
You bet they will, and the Repubs & conservatives will be the first in line demanding the government pay for the mistakes they made.

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information

Copyright 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.