The definition of 'Nuance'
08-29-04, 12:08 AM
#1
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The definition of 'Nuance'
http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald...printstory.jsp
OHHHH...thats nuance!
They say Bush is dumb, but the whole inventing the internet and the 'I voted for it before I voted against it' non-sence proves Bush is just dumb enough to be safe from the problems of being a genius.
BTW...pissing off Florida's Cubans is BAD NEWS!
Kerry's stances on Cuba open to attack
BY PETER WALLSTEN
[email protected]
John Kerry had just pumped up a huge crowd in downtown West Palm Beach, promising to make the state a battleground for his quest to oust President Bush, when a local television journalist posed the question that any candidate with Florida ambitions should expect:
What will you do about Cuba?
As the presumptive Democratic nominee, Kerry was ready with the bravado appropriate for a challenger who knows that every answer carries magnified importance in the state that put President Bush into office by just 537 votes.
''I'm pretty tough on Castro, because I think he's running one of the last vestiges of a Stalinist secret police government in the world,'' Kerry told WPLG-ABC 10 reporter Michael Putney in an interview to be aired at 11:30 this morning.
Then, reaching back eight years to one of the more significant efforts to toughen sanctions on the communist island, Kerry volunteered: ``And I voted for the Helms-Burton legislation to be tough on companies that deal with him.''
It seemed the correct answer in a year in which Democratic strategists think they can make a play for at least a portion of the important Cuban-American vote -- as they did in 1996 when more than three in 10 backed President Clinton's reelection after he signed the sanctions measure written by Sen. Jesse Helms and Rep. Dan Burton.
There is only one problem: Kerry voted against it.
Asked Friday to explain the discrepancy, Kerry aides said the senator cast one of the 22 nays that day in 1996 because he disagreed with some of the final technical aspects. But, said spokesman David Wade, Kerry supported the legislation in its purer form -- and voted for it months earlier.
The confusion illustrates a persistent problem for Kerry as Republicans exploit his 19-year voting history to paint the Massachusetts senator as a waffler on major foreign-affairs questions such as the Iraq war, Israel's security barrier and intelligence funding.
Cuba policy is particularly treacherous for Kerry because Florida's nearly half-million Cuban-American voters could be pivotal in awarding the state's 27 electoral votes. And Republicans are preparing to unleash a wave of publicity designed to portray Kerry's new toughness as an election-year conversion from a career of liberal positions on Cuba.
Speaking to reporters Saturday after a meeting of senior Florida Republicans about increasing Hispanic turnout this year, Lt. Gov. Toni Jennings predicted that Kerry's voting record on Cuba would ''haunt'' him in the coming months.
BY PETER WALLSTEN
[email protected]
John Kerry had just pumped up a huge crowd in downtown West Palm Beach, promising to make the state a battleground for his quest to oust President Bush, when a local television journalist posed the question that any candidate with Florida ambitions should expect:
What will you do about Cuba?
As the presumptive Democratic nominee, Kerry was ready with the bravado appropriate for a challenger who knows that every answer carries magnified importance in the state that put President Bush into office by just 537 votes.
''I'm pretty tough on Castro, because I think he's running one of the last vestiges of a Stalinist secret police government in the world,'' Kerry told WPLG-ABC 10 reporter Michael Putney in an interview to be aired at 11:30 this morning.
Then, reaching back eight years to one of the more significant efforts to toughen sanctions on the communist island, Kerry volunteered: ``And I voted for the Helms-Burton legislation to be tough on companies that deal with him.''
It seemed the correct answer in a year in which Democratic strategists think they can make a play for at least a portion of the important Cuban-American vote -- as they did in 1996 when more than three in 10 backed President Clinton's reelection after he signed the sanctions measure written by Sen. Jesse Helms and Rep. Dan Burton.
There is only one problem: Kerry voted against it.
Asked Friday to explain the discrepancy, Kerry aides said the senator cast one of the 22 nays that day in 1996 because he disagreed with some of the final technical aspects. But, said spokesman David Wade, Kerry supported the legislation in its purer form -- and voted for it months earlier.
The confusion illustrates a persistent problem for Kerry as Republicans exploit his 19-year voting history to paint the Massachusetts senator as a waffler on major foreign-affairs questions such as the Iraq war, Israel's security barrier and intelligence funding.
Cuba policy is particularly treacherous for Kerry because Florida's nearly half-million Cuban-American voters could be pivotal in awarding the state's 27 electoral votes. And Republicans are preparing to unleash a wave of publicity designed to portray Kerry's new toughness as an election-year conversion from a career of liberal positions on Cuba.
Speaking to reporters Saturday after a meeting of senior Florida Republicans about increasing Hispanic turnout this year, Lt. Gov. Toni Jennings predicted that Kerry's voting record on Cuba would ''haunt'' him in the coming months.
They say Bush is dumb, but the whole inventing the internet and the 'I voted for it before I voted against it' non-sence proves Bush is just dumb enough to be safe from the problems of being a genius.
BTW...pissing off Florida's Cubans is BAD NEWS!
08-29-04, 07:16 AM
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Originally posted by PopcornTreeCt
So what does nuance mean?
So what does nuance mean?
Asked Friday to explain the discrepancy, Kerry aides said the senator cast one of the 22 nays that day in 1996 because he disagreed with some of the final technical aspects. But, said spokesman David Wade, Kerry supported the legislation in its purer form -- and voted for it months earlier.
08-29-04, 08:04 AM
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I think touting your vote for something when in the end you voted against it (or vice versa) pretty much epitomizes John Kerry. If he can be this revisionist (shades of George Orwell's 1984), how can anyone take seriously his promises for the future?
Lets face it, Kerry is arrogant enough to believe the "middle Americans" he claims to be for are too stupid to notice.
Kerry might be a slicker talker, but at least Bush will try to do what he tries to say.
Lets face it, Kerry is arrogant enough to believe the "middle Americans" he claims to be for are too stupid to notice.
Kerry might be a slicker talker, but at least Bush will try to do what he tries to say.
Last edited by OldDude; 08-29-04 at 08:07 AM.
08-29-04, 09:10 AM
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I don't see the big issue. He could still support the idea without supporting that particular bill. I would like to know what technical aspects he disagree with, but i could easily see that happening. There is so much pork and riders attached to bills, it could easily be true
08-29-04, 09:16 AM
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It could, but if you're honest, you have to say "I favored the idea but I voted against the bill because blah,blah,blah." You can't lie and claim you voted for it. Is he unaware a Republican fact checker checks every word out of his mouth? (Of course, equally important, why do I care if he puts his foot in his mouth? 
)
)
08-29-04, 04:41 PM
#14
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Originally posted by OldDude
It could, but if you're honest, you have to say "I favored the idea but I voted against the bill because blah,blah,blah." You can't lie and claim you voted for it.
It could, but if you're honest, you have to say "I favored the idea but I voted against the bill because blah,blah,blah." You can't lie and claim you voted for it.
Carry on.
08-29-04, 04:49 PM
#16
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Originally posted by OldDude
Well, at least honesty on how you voted in a roll call vote available from Congressional Record. On "show of hands' you can lie all you want.
Well, at least honesty on how you voted in a roll call vote available from Congressional Record. On "show of hands' you can lie all you want.
08-29-04, 04:56 PM
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"non-sence "?
Once again, a thread from Republicans and their black/white world. The bill was voted on twice: once he voted for it, and again (after a bunch of pork was probably attached) he voted against it. How is saying you voted for it a lie? Seems to me, by that logic, if he said he voted against it, the Republicans would be claiming the opposite ("Ha, he voted FOR it!").
I personally admire someone who changes their vote once the very thing they are voting for changes. To continue to support something which has been altered into something you don't agree with, indicates a lack of integrity and critical thinking.
Once again, a thread from Republicans and their black/white world. The bill was voted on twice: once he voted for it, and again (after a bunch of pork was probably attached) he voted against it. How is saying you voted for it a lie? Seems to me, by that logic, if he said he voted against it, the Republicans would be claiming the opposite ("Ha, he voted FOR it!").
I personally admire someone who changes their vote once the very thing they are voting for changes. To continue to support something which has been altered into something you don't agree with, indicates a lack of integrity and critical thinking.
08-29-04, 05:11 PM
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I don't know exactly why republicans like to focus on these little dopey details and his vietnam service crap instead of the issues... I mean, it's not like Bush hasn't changed his position on things or said something that wasn't true, and bush's service records are far less impressive and are shrouded in even more mystery than Kerry's.
Kerry is a retard, but only because he's going to Florida to speak out against Cuba. Not only is it the wrong position to take (imo), it's the wrong place to talk about it. He's also a retard for continuing to bring up his vietnam service and trying to base his whole campaign on it. He's also a retard for letting the Bush campaign put him into defense mode... sure, it's pretty noble and mature to not completely sink to that level - but it's not going to win an election.
Kerry is a retard, but only because he's going to Florida to speak out against Cuba. Not only is it the wrong position to take (imo), it's the wrong place to talk about it. He's also a retard for continuing to bring up his vietnam service and trying to base his whole campaign on it. He's also a retard for letting the Bush campaign put him into defense mode... sure, it's pretty noble and mature to not completely sink to that level - but it's not going to win an election.
08-29-04, 05:12 PM
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I have no problem with him changing his vote if he disagrees with the final bill and acknowledges his vote. A little Googling shows it passed without him and was signed into law by President Clinton on March 12, 1996. Now that he sees it popular with Cuban Americans, he claims he voted for it. He is trying to take credit for being part of getting it passed (in its final form) into law. Except he didn't.
In my simple Republican world view, that is called a bold-faced lie. I would hope in the Democratic world, it is at least called "Oops, the speechwriter fucked up." But, by the spirited defense shown here, it is called "truth." Now that I know that lies are truth and truth is lies, I understand many Democratic campaign ads much better. Except I still have this naive notion that is a lack of integrity.
In my simple Republican world view, that is called a bold-faced lie. I would hope in the Democratic world, it is at least called "Oops, the speechwriter fucked up." But, by the spirited defense shown here, it is called "truth." Now that I know that lies are truth and truth is lies, I understand many Democratic campaign ads much better. Except I still have this naive notion that is a lack of integrity.
08-29-04, 05:16 PM
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I don't think he's trying to take credit for it rather than just show that he was in favor of it. He knows there are fact checkers and that everything he has done is up to scrutiny. I have no explaination for the christmas thing, but with regard to his voting record - I think he's been pretty clear about the issues and what he's in favor of... just because he doesn't explain every little reason why he changes his vote or whatever seems to overshadow the basic ideas that he's representing. It's not right. He should just be able to say "I believe this." and have that be it. But if he said that, people would bring up the ways he has voted. He's damned if he does and damned if he don't. Hopefully the republicans will settle down and let the issues come back to the forefront.
08-29-04, 05:44 PM
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Allow me to refresh your memory from the original article. He mostly certainly is trying to take credit for it
''I'm pretty tough on Castro, because I think he's running one of the last vestiges of a Stalinist secret police government in the world,'' Kerry told WPLG-ABC 10 reporter Michael Putney in an interview to be aired at 11:30 this morning.
Then, reaching back eight years to one of the more significant efforts to toughen sanctions on the communist island, Kerry volunteered: ``And I voted for the Helms-Burton legislation to be tough on companies that deal with him.''
It seemed the correct answer in a year in which Democratic strategists think they can make a play for at least a portion of the important Cuban-American vote -- as they did in 1996 when more than three in 10 backed President Clinton's reelection after he signed the sanctions measure written by Sen. Jesse Helms and Rep. Dan Burton.
There is only one problem: Kerry voted against it.
Then, reaching back eight years to one of the more significant efforts to toughen sanctions on the communist island, Kerry volunteered: ``And I voted for the Helms-Burton legislation to be tough on companies that deal with him.''
It seemed the correct answer in a year in which Democratic strategists think they can make a play for at least a portion of the important Cuban-American vote -- as they did in 1996 when more than three in 10 backed President Clinton's reelection after he signed the sanctions measure written by Sen. Jesse Helms and Rep. Dan Burton.
There is only one problem: Kerry voted against it.
08-29-04, 05:52 PM
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Details and facts don't seem to matter to the media. Anyone who opposes Kerry's view of what happened is labelled as trying to slime the Kerry campaign despite the facts.
Take a look at this link:
http://www.startribune.com/stories/1519/4952078.html
Take a look at this link:
http://www.startribune.com/stories/1519/4952078.html
08-29-04, 05:52 PM
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Kerry Took BOTH Sides In First Gulf War In Separate Letters To Same Constituent
“Rather than take a side--albeit the one he thought was most expedient--Kerry actually stood on both sides of the first Gulf war, much like he did this time around. Consider this ‘Notebook’ item from TNR’s March 25, 1991 issue, which ran under the headline ‘Same Senator, Same Constituent’:
‘Thank you for contacting me to express your opposition ... to the early use of military force by the US against Iraq. I share your concerns. On January 11, I voted in favor of a resolution that would have insisted that economic sanctions be given more time to work and against a resolution giving the president the immediate authority to go to war.’ --letter from Senator John Kerry to Wallace Carter of Newton Centre, Massachusetts, dated January 22 [1991]
‘Thank you very much for contacting me to express your support for the actions of President Bush in response to the Iraqi invasion of Kuwait. From the outset of the invasion, I have strongly and unequivocally supported President Bush’s response to the crisis and the policy goals he has established with our military deployment in the Persian Gulf.’ --Senator Kerry to Wallace Carter, January 31 [1991]”
(Noam Scheiber, “Noam Scheiber’s Daily Journal of Politics, The New Republic Online, 1/28/04)
“Rather than take a side--albeit the one he thought was most expedient--Kerry actually stood on both sides of the first Gulf war, much like he did this time around. Consider this ‘Notebook’ item from TNR’s March 25, 1991 issue, which ran under the headline ‘Same Senator, Same Constituent’:
‘Thank you for contacting me to express your opposition ... to the early use of military force by the US against Iraq. I share your concerns. On January 11, I voted in favor of a resolution that would have insisted that economic sanctions be given more time to work and against a resolution giving the president the immediate authority to go to war.’ --letter from Senator John Kerry to Wallace Carter of Newton Centre, Massachusetts, dated January 22 [1991]
‘Thank you very much for contacting me to express your support for the actions of President Bush in response to the Iraqi invasion of Kuwait. From the outset of the invasion, I have strongly and unequivocally supported President Bush’s response to the crisis and the policy goals he has established with our military deployment in the Persian Gulf.’ --Senator Kerry to Wallace Carter, January 31 [1991]”
(Noam Scheiber, “Noam Scheiber’s Daily Journal of Politics, The New Republic Online, 1/28/04)
08-29-04, 06:02 PM
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Originally posted by OldDude
Allow me to refresh your memory from the original article. He mostly certainly is trying to take credit for it
Allow me to refresh your memory from the original article. He mostly certainly is trying to take credit for it
I'm pissed that he wants to continue to sanction cuba... our sanctioning of other countries sucks ass.
