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NY Times interview with Bush - very long

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NY Times interview with Bush - very long

Old 08-27-04, 09:06 AM
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NY Times interview with Bush - very long

Bush Dismisses Idea That Kerry Lied on Vietnam
By DAVID E. SANGER and ELISABETH BUMILLER


Published: August 27, 2004

FARMINGTON, N.M., Aug. 26 - President Bush said on Thursday that he did not believe Senator John Kerry lied about his war record, but he declined to condemn the television commercial paid for by a veterans group alleging that Mr. Kerry came by his war medals dishonestly.

Mr. Bush's comments, in a half-hour interview with The New York Times, undercut a central accusation leveled by the veterans group, Swift Boat Veterans for Truth, whose unproven attacks on Mr. Kerry have dominated the political debate for more than two weeks.

In the interview, which included topics like preparations for the Republican National Convention, the reconstruction of Iraq and the twin nuclear threats of North Korea and Iran, Mr. Bush portrayed himself as a victim of the same type of political interest groups - called 527 committees for the section of the tax code that created them - that are attacking Mr. Kerry.

"I understand how Senator Kerry feels - I've been attacked by 527's too,'' he said, adding that he had spoken earlier in the day to Senator John McCain and had agreed to join him in a lawsuit against the Federal Election Commission to bar the groups.

Mr. Bush also acknowledged for the first time that he made a "miscalculation of what the conditions would be'' in postwar Iraq. But he insisted that the 17-month-long insurgency that has upended the administration's plans for the country was the unintended by-product of a "swift victory'' against Saddam Hussein's military, which fled and then disappeared into the cities, enabling them to mount a rebellion against the American forces far faster than Mr. Bush and his aides had anticipated.

He insisted that his strategy had been "flexible enough'' to respond, and said that even now "we're adjusting to our conditions'' in places like Najaf, where American forces have been battling one of the most militant of the Shiite groups opposing the American-installed government.

Mr. Bush deflected efforts to inquire further into what went wrong with the occupation, suggesting that such questions should be left to historians, and insisting, as his father used to, that he would resist going "on the couch'' to rethink decisions.

On environmental issues, Mr. Bush appeared unfamiliar with an administration report delivered to Congress on Wednesday that indicated that emissions of carbon dioxide and other heat-trapping gases were the only likely explanation for global warming over the last three decades. Previously, Mr. Bush and other officials had emphasized uncertainties in understanding the causes and consequences of global warming.

The new report was signed by Mr. Bush's secretaries of energy and commerce and his science adviser. Asked why the administration had changed its position on what causes global warming, Mr. Bush replied, "Ah, we did? I don't think so."

Scott McClellan, Mr. Bush's press secretary, said later that the administration was not changing its position on global warming and that Mr. Bush continued to be guided by continuing research at the National Academy of Sciences.

Mr. Bush conducted the interview in an unusual setting: A cinderblock dressing room, outfitted with a conference table and leather reclining chairs, accessible only by walking through a men's room underneath a small stadium here, where he appeared for a campaign rally. The president was joined by one of his closest advisers, Karen P. Hughes, who is now traveling with him; the national security adviser, Condoleezza Rice; former Mayor Rudolph W. Giuliani of New York, who was introducing him at rallies across the state; and his press secretary, Scott McClellan.

In the interview and at three rallies across the state, Mr. Bush appeared relaxed in an open-collared shirt with his shirtsleeves rolled up. Aides said he was in a good mood because of recent polls that showed him gaining ground on Mr. Kerry after months of bad news in Iraq.

A poll conducted by The Los Angeles Times found that Mr. Bush was running ahead of Mr. Kerry for the first time this year and suggested that some of the erosion in Mr. Kerry's support could be linked to the attacks on his military service. But the Times poll and several others released on Thursday showed the race to be deadlocked, with neither candidate holding a lead beyond the margin of sampling error.

One senior political adviser to the president said the shift in Mr. Bush's favor was due to Mr. Kerry's statement two weeks ago that he would have voted to give the president the authority to invade Iraq even if he had known that the country currently possessed no weapons of mass destruction.

"It felt like he had finally made his position clear,'' Mr. Bush said in the interview, referring to Mr. Kerry.


Mr. Bush also took issue with Mr. Kerry's argument, in an interview at the end of May with The New York Times, that the Bush administration's focus on Iraq had given North Korea the opportunity to significantly expand its nuclear capability. Showing none of the alarm about the North's growing arsenal that he once voiced regularly about Iraq, he opened his palms and shrugged when an interviewer noted that new intelligence reports indicate that the North may now have the fuel to produce six or eight nuclear weapons.

He said that in North Korea's case, and in Iran's, he would not be rushed to set deadlines for the countries to disarm, despite his past declaration that he would not "tolerate'' nuclear capability in either nation. He declined to define what he meant by "tolerate.''

"I don't think you give timelines to dictators,'' Mr. Bush said, speaking of North Korea's president, Kim Jong Il, and Iran's mullahs. He said he would continue diplomatic pressure - using China to pressure the North and Europe to pressure Iran - and gave no hint that his patience was limited or that at some point he might consider pre-emptive military action.

"I'm confident that over time this will work - I certainly hope it does,'' he said of the diplomatic approach. Mr. Kerry argued in his interview that North Korea "'was a far more compelling threat in many ways, and it belonged at the top of the agenda,'' but Mr. Bush declined to compare it to Iraq, apart from arguing that Iraq had defied the world community for longer than the other members of what he once called "the axis of evil.'' Nor would he assess the risk that Pyongyang might sell nuclear material to terrorists, though his national security aides believe it may have sold raw uranium to Libya in recent years.

Mr. Bush spoke on the first leg of a multistate tour in advance of the convention: He spends late Friday in Florida, Saturday on another bus trip through Ohio, and Sunday in West Virginia. All are considered crucial swing states.

Mr. Bush did not hesitate when asked about the central charge issued by the Swift Boat Veterans for Truth, the veterans' group that has leveled unsubstantiated attacks against Mr. Kerry's record in Vietnam. "I think Senator Kerry should be proud of his record,'' Mr. Bush said. "No, I don't think he lied.''

But when pressed repeatedly if he would specifically denounce the advertisements, which Mr. Kerry has said were being run with the tacit approval of the Bush campaign, the president refused to condemn then. Instead, he said he would talk only of the "broader issue'' of the political committees that take to the airwaves with attack advertisements.

"Five twenty-sevens - I think these ought to be outlawed,'' he said. "I think they should have been outlawed a year ago. We have billionaires writing checks, large checks, to influence the outcome of the election.''
Old 08-27-04, 09:07 AM
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Actually, I guess it wasn't really that long.
Old 08-27-04, 10:07 AM
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"I understand how Senator Kerry feels - I've been attacked by 527's too,''
What an understatement. Kerry gets attacked by one group. Bush has been attacked(to the point of being compared to Hitler) for about 15-18 months, nearly daily with the complicity of the media.
But when pressed repeatedly if he would specifically denounce the advertisements, which Mr. Kerry has said were being run with the tacit approval of the Bush campaign, the president refused to condemn then. Instead, he said he would talk only of the "broader issue'' of the political committees that take to the airwaves with attack advertisements.
Did you "press" Kerry to denounce moveon.org's ad which compared Bush to Hitler? Bush has no control over the ad. In the ad that the Kerry campaign used of McCain asking Bush to stop that guy from attacking him, Bush answers that the person attacking McCain is wrong and Bush doesn't like what the guy had said about his father in the past as well.

Last edited by bhk; 08-27-04 at 10:10 AM.
Old 08-27-04, 10:14 AM
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Originally posted by bhk
Did you "press" Kerry to denounce moveon.org's ad which compared Bush to Hitler?
Why would he? Bush's own Web site still features an ad comparing leading Democrats to Hitler. In the case of Moveon.org the ad was not produced by Kerry, was removed from the Moveon.org Web site very quickly and was denounced by the party resoundingly. The Bush ad is on his official Web site and the Republican party refuses to denounce it.
Old 08-27-04, 10:21 AM
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Why would he? Bush's own Web site still features an ad comparing leading Democrats to Hitler. In the case of Moveon.org the ad was not produced by Kerry, was removed from the Moveon.org Web site very quickly and was denounced by the party resoundingly. The Bush ad is on his official Web site and the Republican party refuses to denounce it.

Don't see it at Georgewbush.com
Like I said, Bush didn't produce the swiftboat ads so why press him on them when earlier in the interview he had already said he thought Kerry didn't lie about his war record and should be proud of it. I see pressing Bush about the ads as a way for the "journalist" to help Kerry.
Old 08-27-04, 10:24 AM
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Originally posted by Captain Pike
Why would he? Bush's own Web site still features an ad comparing leading Democrats to Hitler. In the case of Moveon.org the ad was not produced by Kerry, was removed from the Moveon.org Web site very quickly and was denounced by the party resoundingly. The Bush ad is on his official Web site and the Republican party refuses to denounce it.
wow. how factually incorrect.

it wasn't on bush's website

i didn't compare dem leaders to hitler

it was not removed from moveon's website quickly

again, it wasn't his ad and it wasn't on his site.



the hitler images came from the moveon ad and it cleared showed that it did. it was showing to what extent the opposition was going
Old 08-27-04, 10:39 AM
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Originally posted by Captain Pike
Bush's own Web site still features an ad comparing leading Democrats to Hitler.
Link please, and not just to Bush's website, but to the specific ad. I just went to the website and I couldn't find it.
Old 08-27-04, 11:01 AM
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Originally posted by Captain Pike
Why would he? Bush's own Web site still features an ad comparing leading Democrats to Hitler.
No, but a while ago on Bush's site there was an ad that MoveOn.org made that compared Bush to Hitler. It was on Bush's site to show the idiocy of MoveOn.
Old 08-27-04, 11:10 AM
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Originally posted by Captain Pike
Bush's own Web site still features an ad comparing leading Democrats to Hitler. In the case of Moveon.org the ad was not produced by Kerry, was removed from the Moveon.org Web site very quickly and was denounced by the party resoundingly. The Bush ad is on his official Web site and the Republican party refuses to denounce it.
Red Herring
Old 08-27-04, 11:11 AM
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Originally posted by wendersfan
Link please, and not just to Bush's website, but to the specific ad. I just went to the website and I couldn't find it.
Here's the thread where it was discussed and refuted.

Here's the page with the ad, all the way at the bottom, in the right hand column:

http://www.georgewbush.com/VideoAndAudio/
Old 08-27-04, 11:11 AM
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MorOn.org actually removed the LINK to the ad from their site within days, but kept that actual ad accessable to those who knew the link for over a month (which was everyone - Drudge had it on his site for the longest time). If I remember correctly, they claimed it was technical issues that caused them to not be able to remove it.
Old 08-27-04, 11:15 AM
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Originally posted by General Zod
MorOn.org actually removed the LINK to the ad from their site within days, but kept that actual ad accessable to those who knew the link for over a month (which was everyone - Drudge had it on his site for the longest time). If I remember correctly, they claimed it was technical issues that caused them to not be able to remove it.
I like the feigned ignorance from camp Kerry over the fact that the clips were from an anti-Bush ad, despite the fact that the MoveOn.org guy who ran the original ad contest and caught all the heat now works for Kerry's campaign.
Old 08-27-04, 11:24 AM
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Originally posted by Venusian
wow. how factually incorrect.
Wrong.

Originally posted by Venusian
it wasn't on bush's website
Yes, it was. It was on the front page of georgewbush.com for nearly a month.

It's STILL on georgewbush.com. Here it is:

http://www.georgewbush.com/VideoAndAudio/Default.aspx

Down at the bottom of the page. It's called "Kerry's Coalition of the Wild-eyed."

Originally posted by Venusian
i didn't compare dem leaders to hitler
Yes, it most certainly did. It showed images of Gore, Dean and Kerry among others interspersed with images of Hitler. The point was very clearly made that the Democrats were ranting and raving just like Hitler.

Originally posted by Venusian
it was not removed from moveon's website quickly
Yes, the ad contest submission was removed quickly. That ad was only on their site for a few days.

Originally posted by Venusian
again, it wasn't his ad and it wasn't on his site.
You've already shown that you don't know what you're talking about on this subject. The ad was and continues to be on his site. It did come directly from the Bush/Cheney campaign. They made it, they posted it, they refused to remove it from the site.

Originally posted by Venusian
the hitler images came from the moveon ad and it cleared showed that it did. it was showing to what extent the opposition was going
The comparison being made is very clear. Additionally, they misrepresented the content of the original ad since they attributed it to moveon.org even though moveon didn't make the ad and didn't sanction it. It was part of a contest that featured submissions from thousands of people. It was not an official DNC or moveon.org product. The Bush ad on the other hand came directly from his campaign and was published on his Web site and continues to be on it to this day.
Old 08-27-04, 11:32 AM
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Firstly, the link was removed from moveon.org's site. The ad remained as of a month or so ago.

Secondly, the Bush ad doesn't misrepresent the content of the ad by attributing it to moveon.org. The original ad itself contains the words "sponsored by moveon.org."

I posted the above link to another thread discussing this, and I'm sure wendersfan doesn't want his thread to continue to be taken off-topic.
Old 08-27-04, 11:35 AM
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Originally posted by Captain Pike
It's STILL on georgewbush.com. Here it is:

http://www.georgewbush.com/VideoAndAudio/Default.aspx

Down at the bottom of the page. It's called "Kerry's Coalition of the Wild-eyed."

Yes, it most certainly did. It showed images of Gore, Dean and Kerry among others interspersed with images of Hitler. The point was very clearly made that the Democrats were ranting and raving just like Hitler.
Thanks for the link. I watched the ad, and having paid attention to its content, what I saw in it was an excerpt from a MoveOn ad comparing Bush to Hitler. I must say, your spin is certainly creative.
Old 08-27-04, 11:47 AM
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Originally posted by wendersfan
Thanks for the link. I watched the ad, and having paid attention to its content, what I saw in it was an excerpt from a MoveOn ad comparing Bush to Hitler. I must say, your spin is certainly creative.
It's cute how you attribute this opinion of the ad to only me, as if a single individual on the Internet means nothing in the larger scheme of things. I assure you, I'm not the only one who was offended by the ad. Here's an interesting point/counterpoint type article about it.

Also, I must say that your spin is certainly creative too since you fail to recognize that the Bush spot itself spins an official connection between Moveon.org, the DNC and the ad, which was a third party submission to a contest and was not sanctioned by any official Democratic organization whatsoever. The creative spin in this case is all coming from the Bush/Cheney campaign.
Old 08-27-04, 12:07 PM
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Originally posted by Captain Pike
It's cute how you attribute this opinion of the ad to only me, as if a single individual on the Internet means nothing in the larger scheme of things. I assure you, I'm not the only one who was offended by the ad. Here's an interesting point/counterpoint type article about it.

Also, I must say that your spin is certainly creative too since you fail to recognize that the Bush spot itself spins an official connection between Moveon.org, the DNC and the ad, which was a third party submission to a contest and was not sanctioned by any official Democratic organization whatsoever. The creative spin in this case is all coming from the Bush/Cheney campaign.
The title of the spot was "Kerry's Coalition of the Wild-Eyed", not "Kerry's Coalition of the Wild-Eyed Elected Democratic Politicians".

Here's the thing - you can't have it both ways. You can either say the MoveOn ad was unsanctioned and had nothing to do with Kerry and the DNC, or not. But you have to apply the same policy to the Swift Boat Vets and the Bush campaign/the RNC. Now, which is it? You seem to be applying one policy to the group with which you agree, and the opposite policy to the group you oppose.

I don't care (within the bounds of this forum) if there are other Democrats who inferred the ad in the same way you did. You're the one who keeps bringing it up here.
Old 08-27-04, 12:44 PM
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It's funny how people who had no problem with the original ad comparing Bush to Hitler suddenly became incensed when their side's ad was used to illustrate just how "wild-eyed" some of their ABB brethren have become.
Old 08-27-04, 12:59 PM
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Originally posted by Captain Pike

Yes, the ad contest submission was removed quickly. That ad was only on their site for a few days.

It appeared on Drudge (linked to moveon) months after it was "taken down". We had a good discussion about it.

And you are saying that moveon.org was showing something that compared Democrats to Hitler?

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